You’re ignoring the original premise. Outside of Shunshin, FTG was the only means to achieve his objective of tagging… THAT IS MY ORIGINAL POINT!!
I agree, he's not so fast that he can blitz Obito before he mentally activates Kamui
Minato didn’t “hold back” his speed. Obito matched his Combat Speed and outpaced him in that exchange. That is a fact.
It's a fact that he outpaced him in THAT exchange yes. This is visible on panel, it was never the point of contention. The point of contention is whether it's a valid feat given the situation (as an analogy, it wouldn't be valid to claim Naruto is normally a blitz tier above Kaguya based on him blitzing her, because Naruto was mentally amped and Kaguya was low on chakra).
So yes, to suggest he was holding back when that isn’t supported is theory crafting. At best Semantics, but the text isn’t supportive of your stance here unless I’m misunderstanding you.
That seems to be the case, but I don't know where the misunderstanding is coming from.
1. Minato recognizes that it's impossible to hit Obito normally
2. Minato thinks about the fact that Obito makes himself solid when he attacks
3. Obito attacks
4. Minato doesn't make him switch to phasing (whether this is intentional or not)
5. Minato then is able to hit Obito because he remains solid
Perhaps I should make a clarification. I wouldn't say Minato's thoughts are objective proof that his top combat speed is faster than Obito's, but it certainly casts significant doubt on the idea that Obito is faster, because Minato's approach in this exchange would be the same regardless of his actual maximum speed.
Minato’s approach was to strike during the mutual exchange when the phasing is off. Nothing supports he held back to achieve this.
No? His approach was to teleport behind Obito and catch him offguard with FTG level 2, which is canonically what happened. Unless you mean the
time of the mutual exchange, which I agree with, and is what I'm referring to with my argument.
I never said Obito was blitzing Minato or that Minato wasn’t capable of reacting to Obito. You are hyper focused on this aspect and theory crafting his reasoning when quite literally, them being relative and him using FTG at the right moment doesn’t suggest he was “holding back” his combat speed.
I think I get what you're saying, that regardless of his combat speed compared to Obito's, he could still be timing precisely by activating FTG just before one of them hit each other. But the problem with that is that if it looked like Obito was gonna get hit first, he'd switch to phasing, and then when Minato uses FTG level 2, he'll phase through Obito, making his whole plan moot.
Sure. Minato’s reaction speed was fast enough to use FTG in the moment before Obito touched him to attack while his Phasing was switched off. This doesn’t change the favt that Obito still matched and outsped Minato’s non-Shunshin speed slightly.
I never made a statement on Minato’s reaction speed. I’m talking strictly Combat. Likewise, another true statement is that Obito is capable of reacting to Minato’s speed w/o being used in conjunction with FTG.
I'm just responding to you saying Minato thinks he could lose, and explaining why that doesn't mean what you think it does.
You’re the only one bringing up FTG. It’s not relevant to Minato’s Combat Speed, which Obito matches and exceeds slightly based on their fight. Nothing supports your stance that he held back his combat speed. His reaction speed + FTG Usage doesn’t change the feats shown. You’re theory crafting reasoning that isn’t supported.
It literally is because FTG level 2 DEMANDS that Minato doesn't outspeed Obito. I've gone over this from multiple different angles and those don't seem to have been effective, so this time I'm gonna try a short narration to try to get my point across.
Minato threw his kunai at Obito, and it flew through his head. They charged at each other, right hands poised for each other. Minato charged a Rasengan, and with his full speed, rammed it toward Obito. He wasn't known as the fastest ninja for nothing, and before Obito's hand could get near Minato, Minato's Rasengan was already an inch away.
Obito looked disconcertedly at the Rasengan headed for him.
Blast, I'll have to use Kamui to dodge this, he thought, activating the ability. But just before the Rasengan would've hit him, Minato teleported away, surprising Obito. Thankfully, the Rasengan aimed for his back failed because he'd pre-emptively (if unintentionally) defended against it.
Minato leaped away as his Rasengan touched the ground. "Tch. I'll have to try a different maneuver then."
Do you see why it'd have been problematic for Minato to go full speed if he was faster? And why it was beneficial in this situation to lull Obito into a false sense of security (which
clearly worked)?
For starters, Minato’s speed isn’t fast enough to do that w/o FTG, which can’t be tracked. While I concede Minato’s Shunshin Speed is faster than Obito’s Combat Speed, it was never fast enough to Escape or Tax Obito’s Reaction Speed, which was the entire point of him needing to time FTG Usage perfectly.
Yes
Your argument is tantamount to me saying, instead of Minato’s Shunshin Speed being outright faster than Obito’s Combat Speed, showcased when he saved baby Naruto, Obito held back his own speed to allow Minato to save Naruto so that he could force Minato’s hand and escape the location, to allow him to take Kushina, bc if he killed Naruto, he’d have to still fight Minato there and wouldn’t be allowed to just take Kushina freely.
I mean I don't actually have a particular problem with this. In fact
it's contextually supported if anything.
That is what you’re doing with Minato
… and that is theory crafting reasoning not supported in the manga.
It's supported by the manga in both of these situations
If I said something like "Minato was mentally nerfed against Obito because he subconsciously realized who he was when he saw his hair, which is supported by him being a sensor that would've been able to feel his chakra
" that would be closer to what you're claiming I'm doing.
Reading between the lines =/= making up an unsupported theory.
False. His arm didn’t need to be fully extended to touch and warp Minato. This is literally showcased.
But he was extending his arm to grab Minato in the first place. When you're moving your arm forward at full speed, it's not exactly easy to just stop without preparing to do so ahead of time. I'll drop this point because it's too ambiguous though, and it somewhat looks like
Obito's arm stopped moving here when his fingers folded.
Yes really. Nobody is arguing against Minato attacking Obito while he was trying to warp him away. Yes, Minato’s arm is fully extended while Obito was still stationary, but the fact you’re failing to acknowledge is that unlike Minato’s Situation, Obito didn’t need to. All he had to do was make contact. Their Goal’s were completely different. So having an extended is irrelevant.
I'm talking about his movement speed. Obito had jumped forward, yet he didn't seem to move forward at all in the time it took for Minato to slam the Rasengan into him. Now if you don't think non-Shunshin movement speed scales to combat speed at all, I'm fine with that. Was just pointing out that Minato's combat speed>>Obito's movement speed.
He’s not without Shunshin, which is the point. It’s literally shown.
I really think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying…
I feel the same
Honest misunderstanding. Sorry about that man.
