MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
His Karma generally doesn't seem to make that massive a difference in performance, Base NL Code can dodge Hidari and react to a casual Boruto, and Base Limiters Code withstands a kick from Delta with some damage.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
- 17,061
- 12,863
Please tell me these aren't in order within tiersThe TL I made some months ago still seems pretty accurate after this chap, Sarada could even be higher
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
It is
- 16,381
- 11,916
"i can fix her"
- 1,505
- 1,303
You put Jura over BM Naruto and Isshiki?
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
This is a crazy statement
BM Naruto is more debatable but idt there's really any assertion you can give Isshiki over what Jura has
- 16,381
- 11,916
I think Jura is prob in the same realm, but im not 100% sure just yet.
that being said BM Naruto is kinda an ass matchup, Jura can and will outlast naruto.
that being said BM Naruto is kinda an ass matchup, Jura can and will outlast naruto.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
I wasn't taking the time limit into account but yeah
- 17,061
- 12,863
Bro, ain't no way you got Momoshiki >>> 10x Kinshiki, that's craaazy
- 16,381
- 11,916
I think mine would be
God tier- Shibai
Top Tier- Ishikki,BM Naruto,Jura
High Tier- Bortuo level peeps
no dont think about what the implications of this tiering would mean for people like Pain Lmfao
God tier- Shibai
Top Tier- Ishikki,BM Naruto,Jura
High Tier- Bortuo level peeps
no dont think about what the implications of this tiering would mean for people like Pain Lmfao
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
- 1,505
- 1,303
I mean sure but there wasn’t really any opportunity for a statement like this to be made about Isshiki given Koji’s ability came after his demise. And nothing links Jura to BM Naruto so we can’t tell if he’d perform better against him than Isshiki didThis is a crazy statement
BM Naruto is more debatable but idt there's really any assertion you can give Isshiki over what Jura has
Not saying I’m totally against it though, but I personally wouldn’t made that claim just yet
- 1,917
- 1,199
I do think we’re being too liberal with the, “Stronger than Code”, statements about the Shinju. He scales physically to Boruto, Base-to-Base and using Hidari as an example, Boruto can easily deal with him physically.
Outside of Jura, it leads me to think the Shinju Ego’s are only Superior via Ninjutsu & as a collective, not Individually.
Based on feats, it looks like (Physically): Base Code ~ Base Boruto ~ Mamushi/Hidari.
Outside of Jura, it leads me to think the Shinju Ego’s are only Superior via Ninjutsu & as a collective, not Individually.
Based on feats, it looks like (Physically): Base Code ~ Base Boruto ~ Mamushi/Hidari.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
All I'm saying is that Jura has a higher assertion than them for now, so there's really no reason to put him below other than treating Isshiki as a Beerus type entity which doesn't honestly have that much evidence.
- 1,917
- 1,199
Nothing links or compares Jura to Isshiki or BM Naruto, so how could he possibly have higher assertions?
It’s by definition inconclusive because NOTHING exists that places him below, equivalent or higher from a power level standpoint.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
Jura>>Daemon + Boruto + Eida + MS Sarada + SM Mitsuki + Konohamaru + NL Kawaki + KM Himawari + SM Koji + Delta + everyone else in Konoha>>>Daemon alone>>NL Code<Isshiki<<BM Naruto
The highest common benchmark they share is Code, and Jura is quantifiably massively above Code, while the best Isshiki has is that he "should" be stronger by some unknown degree. That is by definition a higher assertion.
You could also use that order of magnitude statement to say Isshiki is 10x above Jigen, which is not close to enough.
- 12
- 4
At the beginning, my English isn’t very good, so I am sorry for any mistakes.
Hi everyone, I saw something in Naruto's profile. The ability is 'Limited Regeneration Negation.' Why is the word 'limited' used here? He used it against four people, and stopped the regeneration of three of them almost entirely. So why? Is it just because they didn't stop Edo Mū's regeneration completely?"
Note the four people. Obito, Madara, Mū, and Kaguya.
Hi everyone, I saw something in Naruto's profile. The ability is 'Limited Regeneration Negation.' Why is the word 'limited' used here? He used it against four people, and stopped the regeneration of three of them almost entirely. So why? Is it just because they didn't stop Edo Mū's regeneration completely?"
Note the four people. Obito, Madara, Mū, and Kaguya.
- 1,917
- 1,199
There is no way to quantify the difference between Jigen/Code and Isshiki. NL Code is even stated to still be weaker than Isshiki by an unknown degree.
Again, there is NOTHING quantifying the difference between Isshiki & Jura. You can keep making “>>>>” Arguments but it’s irrelevant because you still run into the wall of IT’S UNQUANTIFIABLE!
You can get Jura over Daemon with the statement, but you can’t get Jura over Isshiki.
- 32,071
- 28,900
Which four people are you referring to?
And it's "Limited" I believe because it's only implied that he slowed Mu's regeneration, and not stopped it entirely.
- 2,099
- 1,631
- 32,071
- 28,900
Funny, the scene in the latest chapter wouldn't even be bad if they were both children... I only pray that Konohamaru is acting like an idiot with some sort of plan in mind to distract her, like the one she's talking to right now is actually a Shadow Clone the whole time.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
I think you're misunderstanding what I mean by higher assertion. I'm not saying this directly scales Jura above Isshiki, but he has higher quantifiable scaling over Code than Isshiki does. Jura is at least >>>>Code, while Isshiki is at least >Code, and while nothing links them directly, in the comparisons that can be made with the info available, Jura is much more impressive.
- 2,099
- 1,631
coulda said "my theory is konohamaru is doing so and so" and would have been easier to engage with that
- 1,505
- 1,303
The assertion just puts him comfortably above Jigen+ level characters though, and I understand the scaling chain is more clear for Jura since we can assess how comfortably he scales to said characters but still
But don’t get me wrong I definitely put Jura in the same ballpark at least
- 1,505
- 1,303
Same. Because I’ll be very disappointed if this isn’t the case
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
I'm just gonna put it like this. If one was to put Isshiki higher in a TL, what would the justification be?
- 1,505
- 1,303
The fact that nothing currently solidifies Jura to be equal or superior
Like if a CRT were to be made rn for Jura being upgraded to Low 4-C, I can’t see a single thing that could concretely place him there
- 12
- 4
"To be honest, I don't remember well, but I think it started with Obito . After Obito insulted Minato in front of Naruto, Naruto got angry and slapped Obito with his "Rasengan" while he was in Sage mode. At that time, Obito couldn't regenerate, but he used "Tso" to heal himself or regenerate, meaning he needed an external source to be able to regenerate. In fact, I didn't pay attention to the fact that "Tso" was able to heal.
As for the second argument, it's very weak actully . that Madara was able to regenerate in less than five seconds after being hit by "Night Guy", but when he was hit by "Lava Rasen Shuriken" from Naruto, he couldn't regenerate. After that, he absorbed the Juubi tree in order to be able to regenerate.
Finally, as for Kaguya, Hagoromo, who fought Kaguya for months, said that she was immortal. However, after Naruto cut off her arms, she was only able to regenerate using an external source (Tsu) to heal herself, just like obito did."
again sorry for my English
- 1,678
- 1,025
In any of the timelines where Kawaki was killed, which would have been after Eida and Daemon came to the village Daemon never assisted him when Code came to kill him. Daemon doesn't care about Kawaki or the earth one bit, Eida on the other hand only cares about Kawaki Romantically and she was willing to give up Boruto for code to use as a sacrifice for the god tree. I would not include daemon in that equation, he is very nonchalant and the world can burn for all he cares.
- 1,917
- 1,199
It wouldn’t be “higher”, just “quantifiable”, if that makes sense bc for it to be “higher”, Isshiki’s would need to be quantified. We’re playing with unknowns here.
I see where you’re coming from but the way I see it, Jura’s statement is just quantifiably better than Isshiki’s. The only reason that can be said is because it’s been stated after the introduction of characters like Daemon and so on that are shown destroying Code, whereas Isshiki’s came before.
So I just don’t think we should be using descriptives like “Higher” when discussing the quantifiable vs the unknown.
Again, if that makes sense…
- 2,099
- 1,631
I'd say likely 10 ZT is fair game, I'll have to review the chapters again to concretely agree with a full rating tho
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
Sure, Jura wouldn't scale to Isshiki's CV rating inherently, but I'm talking about inverse. The former part is only relevant if the baseline assumption is for Isshiki to be superior and Jura has to prove superiority. But it should be considered both ways. Nothing solidifies Isshiki to be equal or superior to Jura. So I could either not rank one of them, which is boring, choose to rank Isshiki higher cause he feels superior, or choose to place the one with more concrete scaling higher. And I simply chose the last.
We don't really know in what situation Code attacked Kawaki though. It could've been a sneak attack when Daemon didn't know he was there. I highly doubt Daemon would just let everything play out if things got really serious, cause the Divine Tree sucking up all life on Earth would kill him and Eida too.
SureIt wouldn’t be “higher”, just “quantifiable”, if that makes sense bc for it to be “higher”, Isshiki’s would need to be quantified. We’re playing with unknowns here.
I see where you’re coming from but the way I see it, Jura’s statement is just quantifiably better than Isshiki’s. The only reason that can be said is because it’s been stated after the introduction of characters like Daemon and so on that are shown destroying Code, whereas Isshiki’s came before.
So I just don’t think we should be using descriptives like “Higher” when discussing the quantifiable vs the unknown.
Again, if that makes sense…
- 32,071
- 28,900
It's alright, you're being quite clear.
It's never exactly clarified what Obito did with the Truth-Seeker Orb on his back; whether he was healing himself, cauterizing the wound, etc. Naruto never inflicts unhealable wounds on other characters with his Senjutsu attacks; it's possible something unique to the 10-Tails Jinchuriki rather than an ability of Naruto's.
Madara's scene happened too quickly to say whether or not Naruto actually stopped him from regenerating in any way.
Kaguya's situation doesn't mean she used the TSO itself to heal her. It could've just been that transforming into the giant Ten-Tails form made it easy for her to regenerate as a massive blob of chakra.
- 1,505
- 1,303
Well Isshiki coming first sets a standard that we can’t say for certain Jura has reached yet. Jura’s scaling is concrete sure but none of it proves to be Isshiki level, and without any scaling connection, imo, we can’t just say this newcomer scales relative yet without any proof. Which is why I brought up profile ratings because we can at least gauge that Isshiki is at a certain level (Small Star) due to the accepted reasoning, but there’s currently no solid reasoning for Jura to be that high
I feel this explanation applies to inverse scaling too, but it’s fine if you disagree. It’s not like either of us can really determine how they stack against each other atm
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 8,511
- 5,103
I don't really see how the order is relevant. If anything I'd expect the later main villain to be stronger, but either way it doesn't really mean anything inherently.
- 12,344
- 12,138
I've been a fan of Mitsuki scaling to a casual Boruto.. due to his performance + seemingly doing better against Boruto than Code did anyway, but I'm pretty sure Mitsuki scaling anywhere near Boruto is controversial bc of his performance.
Anyway here's how I read the fight:
For starters, he was able to restrain Boruto with his snakes and "forced" Boruto to use FTG to escape rather than trying to break through, seeing how Boruto was able to block Code's attack who's stronger than Jigen, so I think it's fair for him to scale to his LS. Although you could argue Boruto never tried to brute force break out of the restraints.
Boruto also uses Shinden to counter Mitsuki's attacks, and Shinden is obviously an amp stronger than his physicals (He didn't use Shinden against the Claw Grimes, though we already know Mitsuki > Claw Grimes).
Mitsuki deflects Boruto's shurikens... though you could argue it was a setup for FTG
Boruto uses Shinden to destroy his clones again, and not with normal attacks. And we know clones are weaker and less durable than the original.
Their lightning Ninjutsu clash
Before Boruto used Shinden to destroy Mitsuki's clones, he says he's gonna get a little rough and tells Mitsuki he has no time to play, which means to me that he's serious but he held back on killing intent both against him and Code.
So I think in terms of speed he doesn't scale obviously, though I think he could scale with his lightning since he clashed with a serious (no killing intent) Boruto (X, Y with Snake Lightning). But AP wise, I think likely is fair.
id like to hear everyones thoughts on this
Last edited:
- 1,505
- 1,303
Well the dude is like what a week old or some shit and his whole thing is evolution so there’s no doubt in my mind he’s gonna be a completely different beast pretty soon
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,386
- 4,176
Hot take. I want the otsutsuki back. It would be a real bummer if their lore isn't expanded upon more. Jura is like the only saving grace of the Shinju. All this love talk is just.....
- 12
- 4
Oh, I'm glad to know you can understand me, despite my poor language.
Well, first of all, I didn't mean that the regeneration denial was due to "Sage Mode". I meant that Naruto's ability that appeared after he was able to use Kurama's power (meaning that the power to negate regeneration is from Kurama's chakra itself). I think it's due to Kurama's toxic chakra that prevents or hinders regeneration.
Also, after stopping the "Edo" characters, he only fought Obito, Madara, and Kaguya. And he couldn't hurt any of them, except for the times I mentioned I think, so I don't know. Also, Obito when he was out of control (he couldn't control the "Jubei") blew up half of his body with the "Tso" that contains natural energy, but he was able to regenerate himself and didn't use the "Tso" to regenerate.
So his failure to regenerate after Naruto's attack wasn't due to the natural energy of "Sage Mode", but rather because of Naruto himself (who has Kurama's chakra). As for Madara, you're right on that point, so I said it was a weak argument because it was so fast, especially in the manga. But in the anime, it was shown a little better.
Also, I said that he regenerated from "Night Guy's" attack in less than 5 seconds and half of his body was gone, but he had trouble regenerating after Naruto's attack, which was less damaging than "Guy's" attack.
