Your analogy doesn’t quite work here. Usain Bolt’s ‘fastest’ is tied to a formally measured and fixed record, while Ay4’s ‘fastest punch’ is a contextual statement, referencing the moment of his fight with Minato. There’s nothing in the narrative to suggest his speed remained constant or that he was referencing his current absolute top speed. Instead, Ay4 is acknowledging Minato’s achievement in their past encounters, and it doesn’t invalidate the possibility that his speed improved after that event.
That's effectively the same thing, it being measured doesn't change the context. Either way, they're calling a speed they had some time in the past their fastest.
The fact that Minato's feat of dodging Ay is compared to Naruto dodging Ay IS a narrative reason for his speed to remain similar.
Even in Usain Bolt’s case, his top speed at different points in his life was not constant. For example, Bolt broke the world record in May 2008 and then broke it again in August 2008. That May 2008 record has now been broken six times, three of which were by Bolt himself. Bolt’s fastest speed continued to improve, and he set another record in August 2009, a full year later. This demonstrates that even for an athlete like Bolt, his ‘fastest’ changes over time, depending on his training and performance. Applying this logic to Ay4, it’s reasonable to assume that his speed could have improved after his early encounters with Minato, making his statement about Minato’s feat contextual rather than an absolute measure of his top speed.
Not really addressing what I said? If Usain Bolt says someone outsped him at his fastest it should be referring to his very peak.
No that is not an absolute factual statement, war is not the only reason people engage in combat (Also sparring is a real thing). However, regardless of whether or not they fought as kages, you can't disprove the fact that they fought several times than the initial first encounter. Which proves my point that A4 had several encounters with Minato to test out their speed.
I don't see how this is relevant, and I also don't know where you're getting the idea that testing out their speeds is the reason they fought.
Then you agree that he at least got faster even if it is just reaction speed(Mind you he can even augment his reflexes with LCM stated in the same scan). The Ay that fought Minato in the very first encounter does not have reaction speed on par with Minato.
Arguable, because it's a statement from someone that was like 7 or 8 when the war ended, making it very doubtful that he even met Minato, and there's no concrete proof that Ay's reaction speed was slower than Minato's at the time. He did have an honestly underrated reaction feat of noticing that
Minato had teleported before he teleported again to the kunai at his back, which is highly impressive considering Minato's ability to
rapidly use FTG consecutively. Him not dodging/countering Minato's attack doesn't mean too much since it was a surprise attack and he was overextended, making it difficult to turn around (not to mention that both his feet seemed to be off the ground). You can also argue Minato's foot forced his body into an even more awkward position but it doesn't seem like his foot had connected with Ay.
3rd Raikage’s, Jonins and Ay boxed with Gyuki and he was suppressed before he could harmed.
? Ay literally chopped off Gyuki's horn.
Didn’t minato run away from Biju bombs until later in the war when he created the rasengan.
That was way before in the 2nd War, which you can tell from the uniforms
But somehow you want Jonin Ay from at least 10 years ago to somehow scale to Ay as Raikage ?
I'm not saying he's necessarily on par with his current self, just that he was Gyuki level+ back then.
The flowing hair in that image is similar to the image below when he used V1 against Naruto but I digress.
Not to the same extent but you seem to not be pushing for this point so we can drop this
Ay being almost 30 does not change the fact that he could still get stronger and Faster…..
I agree, I just find it weird to call WA Ay "Adult" Ay as opposed to 3rd War Ay when he's an adult in both cases
No you can’t do that. That is fraud, you can’t separate a statement that scales V1 LCM~ Regular speed KCM and then use that to upscale Yellow flash > V2 LCM,
I said ~ not > but that's not the main point ig
when it is literally a statement in the same breath. It says and I quote, “A god like speed that also catches up with Naruto in Tailed Beast chakra mode, and even praised to be as fast as the "Yelow Flash",”
He never caught up to Naruto when he used his top speed, which he did only once. So no you can’t have your Cake and eat it too.
There are different translations of it, but the one that says overtake is not really a limiter since that implies superiority. I'd also like to note that the statement is just weird in general since it says Ay is on par with Naruto when
Naruto admits he was holding back right afterwards.
Although anyways, the parts comparing Ay to Naruto and to Minato are different clauses, it's not like it's saying "The speed that catches up with Naruto in Tailed Beast Chakra Mode is not inferior even to the 'Yellow Flash!'" If it was worded like that then it'd be pretty clear cut. The sentence's previous context does help the V1 interpretation, but it's not definitive either way on its own because being capable of catching up with Naruto and having a higher speed in general are not mutually exclusive, which is why I primarily use external scalings to demonstrate that the V1 Ay~Jonin Minato interpretation isn't consistent.
No no no no no no no. Jonin minato scales to KCM regular speed along with V1 Ay not KCM top speed.
Literally compared to KCM Naruto
using Shunshin, his max speed. Also do you think he was constantly using his top speed during the whole fights with Itachi and the Edo Jinchuriki?
Suppressed V2 how suppressed was he? Why should Bee in any way or form scale to a Raikage that was hold back. Because someone like Jigen is in K2 stage does not mean he is using 100 percent of his power. Naruto can be in SPCT mode and still not use 100 percent of its actual power and speed every time, he can use 5, 10, 15 up to unto 100 in that same mode. Bee even said later on brother is at top power, meaning the earlier times he was just joking around with bee while he was in the V2 mode.
None of this changes the fact that any level of V2 is just a higher output than any level of V1, that's why his cloak ramps up and his hair spikes.
How can base Bee be stronger and faster than the Bee that did double lariat with the Raikage’s when he was in 8 tails chakra mode that was also enhanced by samehada? I digress
He got stronger?? I don't know why that didn't come to mind when your whole argument is based on the premise of Ay getting stronger
what is bad with Sage mode Jugo and 3T chidori Sasuke having reactions speed on that level?
KCM Naruto>>PA SM Naruto>Sannin>Danzo~DF Sasuke>FKS Sasuke>>3T FKS Sasuke>Jugo. That is far too large a difference for them to reasonably keep up at all, especially when the first gap is arguably 14x from him having 1/14th of his maximum chakra when he stated he was superior to his PA self.
And Sasuke doesn't just have reactions on that level, he TAGS V1 Ay, which is the key part.
The problem is we treat characters as going 100 percent every time when they can go 1-100…. Why should Bee use 100 percent speed when he know that he can beat them at 50 or less. In fact we know he was indeed Holding back has he could have entered V2 state use his top speed and literally blitz all of them. Suigetsu could react to him in V1 earlier on in the fight, while in the same chapter when Jugo got a power up that amps his speed, suigetsu talks about how fast V1 Raikage’s was moving, the same suigetsu that could blitz him before his attack landed on sasuke prior.
It's suggested that
Ay got serious at the end of Chapter 461 (which can be pretty easily derived from his blazing expression).
This is my suggestion on solving the scaling issue. Top speed KCM Naruto is faster than Jonin minato
KCM naruto top speed > Adult V2 Raikage top speed> Adult V1 Raikage ~ KCM Naruto regular speed ~ Yellow Flash > Jonin Raikage top speed
I meant the lower paragraphs
Appreciate it. But don't you think kcm naruto created so many clones and each of clones shared a few chakra? But most of them got destroyed and 2-3 of them remained, and one of the remaining clones was the one who fought BZ, so do you think that clone got enough chakra after that? And because of this, BZ can be scaled by it?
Well his clones were fighting High Kage level characters like Muu, the 3rd Raikage, and Prime Kimimaro + Chiyo back when there were 13 so anyways the clone would be High Kage level
I agree. Not all vaporization feats need to do that tho.
like I explicitly spell it out in that thread. Thank you and good day
