Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

[OneBleachHurricane]

I’d like for this to be addressed though,

"He should at least be stronger than other Jounin, stated to be a candidate for Tsuchikage"

This is a part of Kitsuchi's AP reasoning during Shippuden/ the War Arc

 

[Metalija]

I am just in favor of having Haku and part 1 Kakashi at Low 7-C, and then have KN0 Naruto at full 7-C. As for BoS who else needs to be scaled?

 

[LordTracer]

"He should at least be stronger than other Jounin, stated to be a candidate for Tsuchikage"

This is a part of Kitsuchi's AP reasoning during Shippuden/ the War Arc

Ik, but I haven’t seen that ever be sourced, so idk if that should be taken into account or if the manga ever actually puts Kitsuchi on that nigh-Kage level.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I just read the Early portion of the war arc (upto chapter 600), and I don't recall any such statement. Though maybe I just missed it.

 

[LordTracer]

If there’s nothing that actually puts Kitsuchi on that high of a level, I think that at least elite jōnin like Kakashi, Kurenai, Guy and Asuma should scale to him.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not a big fan of scaling people based purely on ranks.

There's nothing indicating that those other Jonin listed have comparable AP to him. Especially when we know some individuals in the same rank can vary drastically like the Kages, or the Chunin...

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

If there’s nothing that actually puts Kitsuchi on that high of a level, I think that at least elite jōnin like Kakashi, Kurenai, Guy and Asuma should scale to him.

The 7-A+ value? Or the High 7-C value?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

The Kage at least have shown themselves to be in the same league. Yes, each one specialized in a particular area of Ninjutsu, but they all showed themselves to be more or less comparable.

I think there's always exceptions of course, but famed Jonin like Kakashi and Zabuza being hundreds of times weaker than Kitsuchi seems odd to me, even during the Part 1 events.

 

[LordTracer]

The 7-A+ value? Or the High 7-C value?

Neither, I mean the 7-C or Low 7-B calc he has.

 

[Omimi]

How the hell is there three pages of this already... Can somebody give me TL;DR before I dive into this?

EDIT:

Sage Mode Naruto's regular AP does not scale to his own Rasenshuriken. In his Sage Mode he could only create two of them at a time before completely expiring his Sage Mode.

Do you think if he only threw two punches or two Rasengans he would completely use up all his chakra?

There is also a massive difference in the effects of his Rasenshurikens compared to his regular attacks... Look at the difference between his Rasenshuriken utterly vaporizing one of Pain's bodies VS. his regular attacks which do significantly less damage.

EDIT2: I also saw a calc for calculating Pain's durability based on how far away he was from the Six-Tails Biju Bomb... but if you look at the chapter where that attack happened, the attack didn't directly hit him. It only grazed him then went past him to carve a huge hole out of Konoha.

EDIT3: Sage Mode Naruto has not tanked his own Rasenshuriken. The "enduring" part is about him not being harmed by the internal slicing part of it that damaged his chakra lines.

EDIT4: We also need to discuss the consistency of Naruto's Rasenshuriken being High 7-A, because none of his other Rasenshurikens have had that kind of huge explosion effect.

base naruto can tank his own Rasenshuriken so its not just enduring it

 

[LordTracer]

The Kage at least have shown themselves to be in the same league. Yes, each one specialized in a particular area of Ninjutsu, but they all showed themselves to be more or less comparable.

I think there's always exceptions of course, but famed Jonin like Kakashi and Zabuza being hundreds of times weaker than Kitsuchi seems odd to me, even during the Part 1 events.

Yeah, I agree with this. There’s definitely exceptions (the first four Hokage all come to mind), but generally, there is a pretty consistent level of power for each rank to be on. Like, just look at the Five Kage in the War Arc. They aren’t exactly equal, but they’re all still roughly comparable to one another. Same with the sensei of the Konoha 12.

And it’s not like we’re scaling every single jōnin in existence to Kitsuchi, only the elite ones. So someone like Anko as much as it pains me to say wouldn’t scale, but elite jōnin, bodyguards of the Kage, people like that would scale.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yeah, I agree with this. There’s definitely exceptions (the first four Hokage all come to mind), but generally, there is a pretty consistent level of power for each rank to be on. Like, just look at the Five Kage in the War Arc. They aren’t exactly equal, but they’re all still roughly comparable to one another. Same with the sensei of the Konoha 12.

And it’s not like we’re scaling every single jōnin in existence to Kitsuchi, only the elite ones. So someone like Anko as much as it pains me to say wouldn’t scale, but elite jōnin, bodyguards of the Kage, people like that would scale.

SIMP!!!

But yeah lol, I agree. Only elite Jonin would be in the conversation to scale here, so it wouldn't cause any issues or inconsistencies.

 

[Metalija]

Yeah, I agree with this. There’s definitely exceptions (the first four Hokage all come to mind), but generally, there is a pretty consistent level of power for each rank to be on. Like, just look at the Five Kage in the War Arc. They aren’t exactly equal, but they’re all still roughly comparable to one another. Same with the sensei of the Konoha 12.

And it’s not like we’re scaling every single jōnin in existence to Kitsuchi, only the elite ones. So someone like Anko as much as it pains me to say wouldn’t scale, but elite jōnin, bodyguards of the Kage, people like that would scale.

Im fine with this.

 

[LordTracer]

SIMP!!!

But yeah lol, I agree. Only elite Jonin would be in the conversation to scale here, so it wouldn't cause any issues or inconsistencies.

You’re goddamn right I am

Only like, Kakashi, Darui, Temari, Neji (probably), Fugaku, etc. Like, random jōnin #75 that Kid Obito killed wouldn’t be scaling lol.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I think that people like Danzō and his guards could scale as well.

 

[Metalija]

Danzo is way higher than that, hes like High 7-A. MS Sasuke in base is stronger than CM2 Hebi Sasuke.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

He was getting squished to death by the Susano'o, so I don't think he scales to it at all without his summon amping his Futon attacks.

 

[Damage3245]

I think that people like Danzō and his guards could scale as well.

See, this is what I don't get. You're talking about someone like Torune Aburame, somebody we've only seen fighting through the use of microscopic chakra-eating insects... and we're ranking him Small City level because he's a Jonin?

Where is it a requirement for Elite Jonin to all be a certain level of AP?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I was talking about 7-C, not Low 7-B, and yes as one of the top two best Shinobi in the foundation I don't see much issue with it.

 

[LordTracer]

somebody we've only seen fighting through the use of microscopic chakra-eating insects...

I’m sorry, how exactly is this supposed to be an argument? Do you think that the Aburame Clan can’t be a certain level of AP because of how they fight or something?

 

[Damage3245]

I’m sorry, how exactly is this supposed to be an argument? Do you think that the Aburame Clan can’t be a certain level of AP because of how they fight or something?

I'm saying this his fighting style doesn't revolve around having a certain level of AP.

Two Shinobi can both be Jonin but fight in completely different ways, leading them both to be rated very differently.

 

[LordTracer]

Fighting in different ways =/= different AP.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Scaling shouldn't be done by their Shinobi Ranks but by their actual feats (more on this) and statements. Because if you scale by Jounin rank let's say, you would say Kurenai is in the same tier as Kakashi, Gai, Darui, etc? Or that the genin girl Kin (the sound genjutsu girl) is in the same tier as genin Naruto, Lee, Choji?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sure.

is this ironic

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Id argue that AP does scale somewhat with rank as often times a shinobi is a certain rank because of their power. but it's certainly not cut and dry and should be evaluated on a case to case basis; supplimented with context.

If a character has no feats nor narrative or thematic elements that could allow them to scale to someone then it's rather best to put them at Unknown than just slapping a tier on them.

 

[Metalija]

He was getting squished to death by the Susano'o, so I don't think he scales to it at all without his summon amping his Futon attacks.

He doesn't scale to Susanoo but he scales to Base MS Sasuke who is High 7-A. Sasukes Susanoo is 6-C due to being superior to 4th Raikage.

 

[LordTracer]

Id argue that AP does scale somewhat with rank as often times a shinobi is a certain rank because of their power. but it's certainly not cut and dry and should be evaluated on a case to case basis; supplimented with context.

If a character has no feats nor narrative or thematic elements that could allow them to scale to someone then it's rather best to put them at Unknown than just slapping a tier on them.

Meh. Personally, I’d say that giving them a tier similar to those in the same rank is infinitely better than just making them Unknown.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Id argue that AP does scale somewhat with rank as often times a shinobi is a certain rank because of their power. but it's certainly not cut and dry and should be evaluated on a case to case basis; supplimented with context.

If a character has no feats nor narrative or thematic elements that could allow them to scale to someone then it's rather best to put them at Unknown than just slapping a tier on them.

I agree with this 1000%, and I'd like to point out that LordTracer and myself aren't arguing that every single Jonin under the sun are the exact same just because of rank. We were just arguing for a few elites that have a lot of hype behind them. But yea, we should examine each case individually of course.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

He doesn't scale to Susanoo but he scales to Base MS Sasuke who is High 7-A. Sasukes Susanoo is 6-C due to being superior to 4th Raikage.

How is it superior to the Raikage though?
Also base MS Sasuke is not High 7-A.
But you're right that Danzo would be significantly higher than the 7-C/Low 7-B calcs since base Sasuke should be 7-A.

 

[LordTracer]

Exactly. Like I said earlier, people like this random Iwa jōnin wouldn’t scale, only the top tiers like a Kage’s bodyguard or an elite like the Konoha 12’s sensei, or a clan leader.

To give some examples of characters with profiles that wouldn’t scale, Hayate, Anko and C wouldn’t be scaling.

 

[Metalija]

How is it superior to the Raikage though?
Also base MS Sasuke is not High 7-A.
But you're right that Danzo would be significantly higher than the 7-C/Low 7-B calcs since base Sasuke should be 7-A.

Well V1 raikage couldn't destroy Sasukes ribcage, and V2 could but I still think that even V2 can't destroy full Susanoo. Also Base MS Sasuke could be High 7-A if we consider him stronger or at least relative to his past CM2 self. So idk what we will do, but Danzo needs to be at least 7-A.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Guys, let's finish the current scaling first. Then we can go to Kage Summit Arc

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

can someone link me the sandbox again

who else needs to be covered

 

[M3X_2.0]

All Konoha ninjas, Kisame (30%), Itachi (30%), Hebi Sasuke

M3X/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordTracer]

Just making sure, are we using the above 10x Sage Mode multiplier?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree with M3X that 30% Itachi and Kisame are unnecessary. We should just apply the 3.33x multipliers.

 

[Metalija]

Part 2 Neji defeated a water clone of a 30% Kisame. Is that enough for 7-A or are we gonna scale him to 7-C/Low 7-B? Also I think that we are using the Sage mode multiplier.

 

[LordTracer]

Part 2 Neji defeated a water clone of a 30% Kisame. Is that enough for 7-A or are we gonna scale him to 7-C/Low 7-B? Also I think that we are using the Sage mode multiplier.

That depends on what tier 100% Kisame is. If he’s High 7-A, then yes, Neji would be 7-A.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I've already laid down my case for High 7-A Kisame.

 

[Metalija]

Yeah 100% Kisame is somewhat relative to 6th gate Guy and could even survive Hirudora from 7th gates Guy. Plus he is kinda portrayed as being above your regular Akatsuki members like Kakuzu and Deidara. So him being High 7-A is good.