Naruto God Tiers Downgrade

[Paul_Frank]

@Omimi
Problem with your argument. Naruto holds her Chakra arms back for a short time. Then somehow gains the power to cut her arm off!, But then his Rasenshuriken don't obliterate her?.

Plus she literally shattered Sasuke's Soosano with one Attack!... Sorry but it doesn't add up. So no, they don't keep their 5-B rating

Naruto holding back her Chakra arms and then cutting them off but not obliterating her means he does scale to her

If he blocked them cut them off and obliterated her with one rasenshuriken then that would mean he scales significantly higher than her and since she didn't die instantly from one rasenshuriken he only scales to her

Also didn't she break the susano with the ash bones, that ignore durability

 

[Dark649]

The Kaguya Naruto and Sasuke fought could be stronger than the one that required the efforts of both Hagoromo and Hamura due to being resurrected from an I.T powered Madara, said Hagoromo was likely stronger than Naruto and Sasuke individually.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Yeah,the downgrade looks fine,from a glance.

But are we really going to ignore the fact that Hagoromo divided his powers into two and gave them to Naruto and Sasuke?The fact that even one eyed Madara without Shinju tree was approaching Hagoromo?The fact that Both Naruto and Sasuke can fight and damage Madara who already absorbed Shinju tree and reacieved a power up?The fact that Naruto and Sasuke can damage Kaguya?The fact that they can damage Momoshiki who canonically is stronger than Kaguya?

Francly I don't get the logic behind the downgrade and I don't get why people suddenly agree with it when there is so much being ignored.I am almost 100% sure there will be numerous Upgrades in the future regarding this subject that will inculde the feats I brought right now.

 

[Dark649]

Momoshiki who canonically is stronger than Kaguya?

Read here.

 

[Might_Path]

Tobirama only mentioned about the sharingan, while Obito mentioned that Madara would be more dangerous due to possessing both of the Rinnegan and thus being able to unleash powerful techniques. Also the tree boost is far more significant than the eyes, which also does not imply dura or speed.

If sharingan increase the strength then rinnegan should do

 

[Dark649]

It's likely the strength of their offensive techniques [which also includes striking based attacks which scales phisically - i should have remembered that], then again i'm neutral about this so i will stop commenting about the main topic. [Naruto trained and was not in base when he defeated Toneri].

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Read here.

I looked.

Momoshiki vs Kaguya is a heated one and not everyone agrees on him being stronger,I get it.

My point stands still,you can exclude the one about Momoshiki.There are other strong points there and you can't just ignore them.

 

[Mindovin]

@Imade

The proof you used for Naruto and Sasuke awakening their respective powers comes from Madara who doesn't know that they spoke Hagoromo at all, he spoke what he knows from his own perspective. So, Madara's talk is mean nothing for us who knows they encountered Hagoromo and directly given their power.

Sasuke and Naruto .

Naruto's clones Madara's Limbo 4 chapters (maybe more as we don't know why Madara did cancel the Limbos if they are defeated the clones).

 

[Might_Path]

It's likely the strength of their offensive techniques.

lmao


He's just said the strength which means his overall strength

not to mention , that's i am massively disagree with being one-eyed madara weaker than toneri

Toneri get-oneshotted by base naruto punch

Meanwhile , Weakend one-eyed madara (pre shinju) tanked spsm naruto punch easily

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

If Kaguya stays 5-B, so do the teenage Naruto and Sasuke. As Adults they should be stronger with Sasuke having fully mastered his rinnegan and Naruto having 100% Kurama.

 

[Omimi]

Problem with your argument. Naruto holds her Chakra arms back for a short time.

• no i said he tank kaguya chakra arms
  

• he overpowered her with boil release
• destroy her chakra arms

Then somehow gains the power to cut her arm off!, But then his Rasenshuriken don't obliterate her?.

• u do know know that she was caught off guard when naruto cut her arm off?

• naruto already showed that his punch/ rasngan can do same or even more damage than frs(last and boruto) as long he put more chakra in it

Plus she literally shattered Sasuke's Soosano with one Attack!... Sorry but it doesn't add up. So no, they don't keep their 5-B rating

• sure but sasuke PS was durable enough to save him from any injures that warrant 5-B Dura
• no it does does add up

• with all evidence they do do keep their 5-B rating

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Kaguya likely absorbed most of the impact too. She quickly absorbs Sasuke's amaterasu which she hardly had time to react to.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I wanted a separate thread for Kaguya, Hagaromo and Hamura, but I guess I should explain Kaguya here at least then. I'll do an amendment.

 

[Mindovin]

@Omimi
Problem with your argument. Naruto holds her Chakra arms back for a short time. Then somehow gains the power to cut her arm off!, But then his Rasenshuriken don't obliterate her?.

Plus she literally shattered Sasuke's Soosano with one Attack!... Sorry but it doesn't add up. So no, they don't keep their 5-B rating

Sasuke isn't strong as SPSM Naruto even with Six Paths Susano'o without Indra's Arrow as he couldn't kill Naruto and frustrated about it.

 

[Omimi]

let one things get clear here are u trying say that Hagoromo took way his chakra aswell ?

ans it cuz this will kill this thread

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

It is heavily implied that Kaguya feared Momoshiki. Momoshiki was literally her senior in which sent her on a mission to earth to which she deviated. He's eaten multiple chakra fruits from different worlds and even eats the tree to a stump.

 

[Omimi]

I wanted a separate thread for Kaguya, Hagaromo and Hamura, but I guess I should explain Kaguya here at least then. I'll do an amendment.

u are simply going to say outlier and put them on sakura lvl

 

[Omimi]

also disagree with low 5-B momo

sasuke said base momo is greater threat than kaguya even thou he did not fought him yet he still said those words which put momo atleast 5-B

so imad opinon make no sence here

and pls stop using PIS 7-A kage

 

[Dark649]

Momo would be 5-A via being above this calc.

 

[Omimi]

this was not accepted

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

There are some 5-B calcs that need to be evaluated.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Since many staff are here, the moon level rating probably needs to be removed since the calc (obito tree calc) is no good because it's 2000+km tall out of nowhere.

 

[Omimi]

already proved that imad is wrong

and 90% of his point came from PIS feat kage/jonnin to pull a Downgrade

for god sake he even use boruto a 8-B gennin to prove his point

is this joke

 

[Dark649]

Since many staff are here, the moon level rating probably needs to be removed since the calc (obito tree calc) is no good because it's 2000+km tall out of nowhere.

I share that the possibly 5-C calc was not evalueted properly.

 

[MagicCloud6]

I can agree with this

 

[AstralKing7]

@Omimi

Problem with your argument. Naruto holds her Chakra arms back for a short time. Then somehow gains the power to cut her arm off!, But then his Rasenshuriken don't obliterate her?.

Plus she literally shattered Sasuke's Soosano with one Attack!... Sorry but it doesn't add up. So no, they don't keep their 5-B rating

Hold up lmao. Naruto has consistently over powered or stalemated Kaguya. Naruto>Sasuke physically and with "Huge versions". Naruto harmed Kaguya 3 times; cut her arm off, punched her so hard she went flying, and harmed her with the barrage of STBBs.

I hope u don't think Kaguya would've obliterated when we have literally seen people like the raikage tank a FRS. It may not have obliterated her but it harmed her for sure.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Kaguya Amendment

Kaguya is 5-B and interacts with Six Paths Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke, so why aren't the latter two 5-B as well?

The answer is obvious since those who made the Kaguya thread forgot to account for the fact that the Kaguya that fought Hagoromo and Hamura is not of the same power level as the Kaguya who fought Naruto and Sasuke.

Let's compare the two:

Past Kaguya:

• Fought two 5-B characters (Hagoromo and Hamura)

• Required the power of two 5-B characters to be sealed.

• Had the full Chakra of the 9 Bijuu.

• Had the entire Shinju tree in her.

• Had the Infinite Tsukiyomi Chakra already taken in as she casted long before fighting Hagoromo and Hamura.

Present Kaguya:

• Fought two Low 5-B characters (Six Paths Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke).

• Required the power of one 5-B character to be sealed (Hagoromo alone had the power to seal her as he gave Naruto and Sasuke his power to do so, this is blatant proof she's already much weaker).

• Did not have the full Chakra of the 9 Bijuu (Was missing parts of Bijuu 1-8 and 50% of Bijuu 9).

• Did not have the entire Shinju tree in her (Naruto cut the Shinju tree and Madara had only taken in the upper part of the Shinju that had come off from Naruto's cut, the base and all the roots were not taken in by Madara and in turn Kaguya).

• Did not have the Infinite Tsukiyomi Chakra in her until the very end (even after she takes in the Infinite Tsukiyomi Chakra, she never interacts with Six Paths Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke as she becomes sealed by them immediately after she gets the amp).

Conclusion
It's quite clear that Kaguya in the past was much more powerful than in the present. Thus I propose she receives a new key and a cleanup of her current keys.

Currently Kaguya is rated as:

Tier: 5-B, higher with Infinite Tsukuyomi. 5-A with Expansive Truth Seeking Ball.

Attack Potency: Planet level (Stated to be more powerful than even the Sage of the Six Paths, overpowered Naruto's attacks, easily destroyed Sasuke's Susanoo, and changed the environment of an entire planet), higher with Infinite Tsukuyomi (The Chakra absorbed from Infinite Tsukiyomi Increases her stats exponentially). Large Planet level with the Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball. The Gentle Fist bypasses durability to an extent as it directly targets the nerves and life energy channels to disrupt the target's movements and ability to control their inner energy

My proposal:

Tier: At least Low 5-B, possibly 5-B with Infinite Tsukiyomi. 5-B, higher with Infinite Tsukuyomi. 5-A with Expansive Truth Seeking Ball.

Attack Potency: At least Small Planet level (Fought Six Paths Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke at the same time, easily destroyed Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo, and changed the environment of an entire planet ). Planet level (Stated to be more powerful than even the Sage of the Six Paths, fought Hagaromo and Hamura at the same time), higher with Infinite Tsukuyomi (The Chakra absorbed from Infinite Tsukiyomi Increases her stats exponentially). Large Planet level with the Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball. The Gentle Fist bypasses durability to an extent as it directly targets the nerves and life energy channels to disrupt the target's movements and ability to control their inner energy

Key: Present Kaguya | Past Kaguya | Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball

I will add this to the OP

 

[Toshiohex]

Maybe this video should clear things up.....

https://youtu.be/2lPKGPvQoIM

It's a video by seththeprogrammer that explains momoshiki's power level and how it scales to the rest of the characters.

 

[Dark649]

Present Kaguya has a 5-B calc.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017

And this all gets nullifed by the fact that She absorbed the energy from infinity tsukuyomi when she was transforming from Madara's body.

And can we stop with these speculations and theorious of yours?From the start and right to the end your revision is based on your theories.I'll post this again:

But are we really going to ignore the fact that Hagoromo divided his powers into two and gave them to Naruto and Sasuke?The fact that even one eyed Madara without Shinju tree was approaching Hagoromo?The fact that Both Naruto and Sasuke can fight and damage Madara who already absorbed Shinju tree and reacieved a power up?The fact that Naruto and Sasuke can damage Kaguya?The fact that they can damage Momoshiki who canonically is stronger than Kaguya?

And this is from Mindovin:

The proof you used for Naruto and Sasuke awakening their respective powers comes from Madara who doesn't know that they spoke Hagoromo at all, he spoke what he knows from his own perspective. So, Madara's talk is mean nothing for us who knows they encountered Hagoromo and directly given their power.

Sasuke and Naruto .

Naruto's clones Madara's Limbo 4 chapters (maybe more as we don't know why Madara did cancel the Limbos if they are defeated the clones).

Oh and yeah,did I meantion that Hagoromo's statement about Madara approaching his powers?And even Kaguya's?And that was only with one rinnegan and without shinju.

I am against the revision as it contradicts the feats and statements of the manga.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

The seal is a hax ability and not AP. Hagoromo had both sides of the seal, the yin and the yang so no other character is needed. Other than that I agree with the analysis. Where is the reasoning for Kaguya being 5-B other than calcs?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

And also I still disagree with Kaguya being above Momoshiki.

 

[Rocker1189]

The seal first forms using energy that is what is being measured. She is stronger than Hagoromo like he himself states.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Present Kaguya has a 5-B calc.

That calc is for creation of those worlds, how could present Kaguya create them if she was sealed?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Well he actually refers to past Kaguya when he says she was stronger.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Dzhi does make a good point though.



He stated this when she came back not when she absorbed more chakra.

 

[AstralKing7]

Kaguya was stronger when she was brought back the second time cause she had chakra from all over the world which she didn't have before

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Actually only the family had chakra at that point. it was Hagoromo who spread it.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 And this all gets nullifed by the fact that She absorbed the energy from infinity tsukuyomi when she was transforming from Madara's body.

This is false, Kaguya didn't absorb all the Chakra from those in the Infinite Tsukiyomi.

In fact, Kaguya absorbs the rest of it later to increase her physicals and create the ETSB.

But are we really going to ignore the fact that Hagoromo divided his powers into two and gave them to Naruto and Sasuke?The fact that even one eyed Madara without Shinju tree was approaching Hagoromo?The fact that Both Naruto and Sasuke can fight and damage Madara who already absorbed Shinju tree and reacieved a power up?The fact that Naruto and Sasuke can damage Kaguya?The fact that they can damage Momoshiki who canonically is stronger than Kaguya?
You keep repeating points I debunked in the OP.

Why These Ratings Are Incorrect

Momoshiki Isn't Stronger than Kaguya:

Kaguya Amendment

And this is from Mindovin: The proof you used for Naruto and Sasuke awakening their respective powers comes from Madara who doesn't know that they spoke Hagoromo at all, he spoke what he knows from his own perspective. So, Madara's talk is mean nothing for us who knows they encountered Hagoromo and directly given their power. Sasuke and Naruto .
Again, points repeated that I already addressed in the OP:

1. Naruto Currently Having Six Paths Senjutsu Doesn't Make Him 5-B:
2. Sasuke Currently Having the Rinnegan Doesn't Make Him 5-B:

Hagoromo tells us what Sasuke and Naruto had, the Rinnegan and Six Paths Senjutsu respectively, I provided the scans for it, actually read the thread and look at the scans and stop making me point you back to the thread.

We know they awakened those naturally because they met the requirements to awaken them naturally before ever meeting Hagoromo.

Naruto's clones Madara's Limbo 4 chapters (maybe more as we don't know why Madara did cancel the Limbos if they are defeated the clones).
Madara's rating scales from Naruto's rating, not the other way around. Once again, something I addressed in the OP.

Oh and yeah,did I meantion that Hagoromo's statement about Madara approaching his powers?And even Kaguya's?And that was only with one rinnegan and without shinju.
Okay, can you give me a statement for when Madara actually reaches Hagoromo or Kaguya's level? Wait, those don't exist, but what does exist is Sasuke saying that Kaguya was above Madara's level, so no. Your point is bunk there.

Again, all these efforts to debunk the thread are literally points that I addressed premptively in the thread. Points keep getting repeated that had already been addressed and many that are arguing against it clearly didn't read the whole thing and aren't even providing scans for a counter point, they're providing scans for points I already had addressed and provided counter scans.