Naruto God Tiers Downgrade

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Once again, you don't need Six Paths Power to undo the Shinju Roots and Infinite Tsukiyomi.

I literally proved this in two sections of my thread, Hagoromo himself said you only need the Chakra of the 9 Bijuu and the Rinnegan to undo it. Explicitly.

Just read the thread, man. I know it's long, but I made it long to cover every point.

 

[Rocker1189]

But you know what Low 5-B is more consistent so I guess I dont really mind, lifting feats are too weird anyway.

I mostly have issues with the Momosihiki point. Since he clashes with Naruto in his RSM mode multiple times.

I also think that Toneri should be 5-B via telekinesis as a seperate AP.

 

[Sera_EX]

I personally agree that no way in hell does Shueisha have literal more authority regarding canon than Kishimoto. Of course they own the IP, they are the publisher. However for our purposes WoG is the author and not the owner if that makes sense. Like who would you take as a higher authority of Wal-Mart, the head CEO or the Wal-Mart stock holders that technically "own" Wal-Mart?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

wasn't it noted madara was approaching hagoromo's power? And sure naruto and sasuke were clashing properly with him and his limbo clones no?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Madara was trying to approach Hagoromo's power per Hagoromo himself, there isn't a follow up to that.

 

[Sins32]

wasn't it noted madara was approaching hagoromo's power? And sure naruto and sasuke were clashing properly with him and his limbo clones no?

Read this, it literally on his profile:

At least Moon level (Should be far stronger than Obito Uchiha as the Juubi Jinchuuriki), likely far higher (Was stated to be trying to get close to Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's power)

 

[Andytrenom]

I cannot really argue for anything in this thread since I never finished the show, but there's something I want to ask.

Is it true that Kishimoto removed Madara as the final villain because he couldn't figure out a way to defeat him? If it is, the jutsu being a one time use against Kaguya would make sense because I'm not sure why they couldn't just have recieved the power to fight Madara.

I should stress that this only a question and not my attempt to decide the rating, so please don't mind if I got anything wrong.

 

[Rocker1189]

I dont think it is true tbh, I always had issues with that statement, but Idk..

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Sera it's the same function that Disney has with Star wars and Marvel.

Disney is the one that establishes the canon with Lucasfilm, not George Lucas and Marvel, Stan Lee doesnt choose whats canon or not

In the context of our site, we are not saying Shueisha should be always chosen over Kishi, the point is that they both have the same power to effect canon, Obviously if they contradict one another it would be better for purpose of this wiki in context take Kishimoto's word however in the Absence of Kishimoto Shuesha is just as good.

 

[Damage3245]

There was rumours about that, yes, but it's impossible to know for certain without asking Kishimoto yourself.

He could have easily writtten it that they could defeat Madara with the same jutsu used on Kaguyu; and they almost did in fact.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I cannot really argue for anything in this thread since I never finished the show, but there's something I want to ask.
Is it true that Kishimoto removed Madara as the final villain because he couldn't figure out a way to defeat him?

No one knows. It's a popular theory given how Madara was hyped up for over a decade to only be thrown away in 20 chapters.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Is it true that Kishimoto removed Madara as the final villain because he couldn't figure out a way to defeat him?

that is false, it makes no sense that Kishi would remove madara only to replace him with an even stronger Villain and state the reason was the former. it's an oxymoron.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Firstly I want to make sure this is a proper Translation

And did madara increase in power after absorbing the tree no?

 

[Sera_EX]

@Andy

A lot of statements about Kishimoto are bogus. Chief among them being "Madara is as strong as Nappa"- literally a fake WoG statement made up by vs debaters. Kishimoto never said that. Debaters tend to make false interviews all the time. There's many for Dragonbal and DC flying out there too if you look for them.

@Shadow

Good point.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I just want to point out this if this downgrade goes through kaguya will be stronger than fused momoshiki

This makes no sense when kaguya was scared of base momoshiki and sasuke said base momo and kinshiki were bigger threats than her

Also I'm pretty sure hags saying madara is almost at his level means madara was almost at his level, hags has no reason to hype up madaras power

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Firstly I want to make sure this is a proper Translation
And did madara increase in power after absorbing the tree no?

This is the Viz official English translation.

Madara gets his other Rinnegan after absorbing the God Tree, but that doesn't increase his stats, it just unlocks more Rinnegan abilities and the Rinne-Sharingan to use the Infinite Tsukiyomi.

 

[Rocker1189]

Viz translation is official but not necassarily better than fan translation, I know forsure that they have had crappy translations.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I just want to point out this if this downgrade goes through kaguya will be stronger than fused momoshiki
This makes no sense when kaguya was scared of base momoshiki and sasuke said base momo and kinshiki were bigger threats than her

It's almost as if I explained this in the thread in a literal section titled: "Momoshiki Isn't Stronger than Kaguya:"

Nearly most that are disagreeing are disagreeing on basis that I made preemptive counters to in the thread. It shows you didn't actually read the thread.

 

[Rocker1189]

It certainly appeared to improve his stats, he was nearly being oneshot by a naruto jutsu, then suddenly his Limbo clones were able to tangle with Naruto.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Is it true that Kishimoto removed Madara as the final villain because he couldn't figure out a way to defeat him?
that is false, it makes no sense that Kishi would remove madara only to replace him with an even stronger Villain and state the reason was the former. it's an oxymoron.

I mean it does kinda make sense

Kaguya was stronger yeah but she had no where near the amount of fighting expertise and intelligence that madara had and thus could be easily outsmarted at least compared to him

I mean she got hit with a reverse harem jutsu and actually was stunned by it and tagged by sakura

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

It certainly appeared to improve his stats, he was nearly being oneshot by a naruto jutsu, then suddenly his Limbo clones were able to tangle with Naruto.

Madara's Limbo clone before the Second Rinnegan could block a strike from Naruto and even knock Naruto backwards with a strike.

That's consistent with the Limbo Clones contending with Naruto's clones.

They're all about even Pre-Second Rinnegan and Post-Second Rinnegan.

Edit: Limbo Clones are stated to be equal to Madara per their databook entry for clarity. Madara's Limbo Clones were the same Pre and Post Second Rinnegan as they contended with Naruto just the same Pre and Post.

 

[BlackeJan]

The Sage chakra was given to them in general. The sun and mon seal was a one time thing though for help from Hagoromo himself. U can't use the SOSP CT without SOSP chakra. While I do agree they had help thanks to Hagoromo, they still can't do it without their own chakra as well. Hag basically gave them his chakra in help for them to use CT

Naruto/Sasuke + Hag chakra = SOSP CT

idk if I'm repeating myself but yes they had his chakra as well to perform the CT that one and only time

 

[BlackeJan]

Also clicked to me but u need BOTH hands to use the CT and Naruto/Sasuke each got a different symbol because of the power that Hags gave them. If one had both then they could themselves use it but they needed to team up against Kaguya since by themselves isn't going to work so yeah hence why Hags gave them each a seperate power

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I guess this all makes sense. I always thought it was strange how Rinnegan Sasuke in base was somehow getting beat up by base Naruto

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

The OP did a good job with his explanation, I agree with Imade.

 

[Js250476]

I love Naruto, but going off the context and the points made im fine with the downgrade.

 

[BlackeJan]

Also clicked to me but u need BOTH hands to use the CT and Naruto/Sasuke each got a different symbol because of the power that Hags gave them. If one had both then they could themselves use it but they needed to team up against Kaguya since by themselves isn't going to work so yeah hence why Hags gave them each a seperate power

 

[Rocker1189]

Nah you need the sun and moon seal which each of them had 1 not both.

 

[BlackeJan]

That's why i also said before. Hags gave them separated power so they only have one each. They also needed both to take down Kaguya hence why he decided to help them out with the CT. Think about it, in general they have his chakra but only kept the SOSP chakra while the CT is gone

Also where is Kep since he did it, while I did think it was a bit weird since they did indeed had help Kep was the one that suggested it so we could ask him why

 

[7th_Ki'oon]

I was right, and this gon b' god.

 

[Sekusu]

I totally agree,but not just for ap

The speed in NV got a lot of downgrades and hyperboles and

Madara and kid naruto were ftl via light fang,a light with the speed of light "why don't you accept it??

But gai isn't even close to that,rela+ for binding space via speed?lol

That's wrong and every one knows that

Was it even discussed before adding it to his profile?

Same as toneri calc,a calc that as a whole is based on assumpations and 0 logic

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Boii

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Anyone called Kep and other Staff Naruto Supporters yet?

I'm neutral by the way. Just make sure to play nice here, everyone.

 

[Sekusu]

Didn't momo state that he was coming to kill kaguya but her sons made the job?

 

[Kepekley23]

I can definitely agree with a downgrade to Low 5-B based off of the scans in the OP. By the way, Toneri needs it added on his profile that his Tenseigan could restore the Earth while it was carved to pieces as a support for Low 5-B, according to The Last novel:

• Using the powerful ocular ability of the tenseigan, even a destroyed planet Earth could be revived.

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

OK, this thread has been accepted.

 

[SinsofMan]

I too am Neutral for now, I want to hear more arguments before I come to a conclusion.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Kep

I think I added it to the profiles of Toneri and Hamura before.

 

[Kepekley23]

> Is it true that Kishimoto removed Madara as the final villain because he couldn't figure out a way to defeat him?

About as true as Toriyama saying he wanted to end Dragon Ball after Freeza or Kishi saying Itachi could beat Madara.

Which is, to say, not true at all.

 

[Rocker1189]

Again, I am fine with eveything but the Kinshiki and Momoshiki downgrades.