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Insert the statement in Strange Fake where Gil could use Enuma Elish without Ea if he wanted to
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Mystic Eyes of Death Perception 1-A level EE and Dura-Neg
- Thread starter BasedNecoScaler69
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What he really can do that?
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He's never been shown doing it but I recall it got stated it could.
Strange Fake is a ******* goldmine of statements, since it's also where the earth-destroying statement comes from
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Man I can only imagine a scenario where he kills shirou by doing that.
Though it’s always his sheer arrogance that stops him from doing it
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- #45
off topic, but should the MEODP get reality warping as well?
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- #46
yea, it seems to be an innate technique that gil and enkidu can use
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We don't list dura negation in AP.
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Sometimes we do by including "Can ignore durability in _ way." in the AP section.
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- #50
the "durability negation" like effect is via reality warping and existence erasure, both of which have been tiered in several cases. its less like durability negation and more like instant death
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- #51
hell, yogiris avatar form ( which has a similar instant death ability to shiki, except that his is passive, has a seperate tier for his powers.)
TheKingStrategist13
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I will say that simply arriving at a thread, leaving a single statement, and then closing it without further debate/questioning isn't the most natural and desired course of actions according to most people.
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Angelica isn't Gilgamesh though, she just gets his stuff, this is evidenced by the fact that as of Prillya, Gilgamesh is outside of the card, and she still has his stuff
Because her powers, the applications being listed in ap, are in fact, applicable to AP, not just dura neg and death hax, it's reality warping or destruction of the entire verse, like actual structures and all, not just enacting death on one person
That's not the statement, the statement is that because the fight was already overwhelmingly in his favor he would not need to draw Ea in order to unleash Enuma Elish, so there was no risk of it being stolen
Not that he can use it without Ea, simply that he didn't need to use it period
Yes, it is death hax and dura neg, and EE for the points and for Ryougi's lines
There's nothing to list in ap there, which is the reason that despite them being 1-A for years, it's never been there, this doesn't increase their ap at all, it's not even ap in the first place, or applicable to it, it's purely hax
No? It's not reality warping, it's death hax and durability negation, Ryougi's lines and Tohno's points are conceptual manipulation which kills the concept of you and erases you from existence, and besides that, the most you can really give it is fate manip
Not exactly sure where you can get reality warping from
No, it's innate for Enkidu because he uses himself, Gil uses Ea for it, it's specifically noted as Ea's ability even, not his NP
That's not listing dura neg as AP 4head, that's saying that AP is irrelevant to that ability, the literal exact opposite of listing dura neg hax as AP in fact
I've never read ID nor had anything to do with the making of the profiles, but from what used to and currently is on the profiles, those abilities are also closer to AP applicable than Shiki's anyway, they're currently described as his true self attacking, and before, the feats of him using said powers to destroy structures on those levels, etc.
There also isn't much to further debate. The things being proposed by the OP were accepted several years ago. The only thing being "debated" is whether or not to add non AP applicable abilities to AP, which also isn't even a debate.
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- #54
MEODP is linked to the root, which governs reality in the Nasuverse, and also stores all of its existence. If the mystic eyes delete all of their target's existence, and therefore the record that Akasha keeps of their existence, is that not reality warping?
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No, we know exactly what it is, it's enacting their death and killing the concept of them which erases them from existence and makes it so there's nothing to return to the root for reincarnation, listing it as those is the accurate thing.
It's very technically reality warping in the sense that every power on the wiki is some degree of reality warping due to just how much of a catch all it really is (i.e any degree of EE is technically RW, as is conceptual manip, or law manip, etc, but we don't tend to list it as that because it's much better to just list more specifics as thats whats useful to know)
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- #56
Their existence is already recorded in the root, erasing that existence = also erasing the records of that existence
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What is being erased is their concept from existence, which negates their ability to be reincarnated as their Origin and information and such never returns to the root to be passed out again
Idk why you think it's erasing the records directly from the root, but even assuming it was for whatever reason, that still wouldn't normally be listed as reality warping for the reason I explained
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- #58
In order for the concept of the person to be killed (which is what the mystic eyes do), the information comprising their existence would also have to be erased as well. We can disagree that it is or is not reality warping, but this isnt run of the mill dura negation
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I mean yes, like I've said, it's killing them and erasing their concept which erases them from existence and prevents any form of resurrection or reincarnation or healing and whatever, and just delivers their death
This doesn't mean it's deleting information directly from the root, it's deleting their Origin while it's outside the root which prevents it from reentering, this is the whole thing with Ryougi's NPs removing people from Samsara, or with killing Roa preventing him from reincarnating further, etc. That's what they mean by killing the concept of them, not that they're erasing something directly out of " ".
Like if it was erasing them directly from the root, I'm pretty sure that would just retroactively kill them as well, they would just never have existed, which we know isn't how it works. The explanation for the eyes is that they are enacting the existential limit of all things, which means what it's doing is using the end point, this wouldn't make sense if it's erasing it from the root, as there wouldn't even be a beginning then, much less an end
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- #60
the root records past,present, and future information, the present information couldve been removed, without affecting the past.
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Why would you assume any of this is the case despite it never being said, as opposed to it being exactly what we're told it is, erasing the concept and preventing it from reaching the root again.
It takes a lot more assumptions to go "actually its erasing their records directly from the root, and it's only affecting the records of the present, and it also doesn't cause any other issues" than just to stick with what we've been directly told multiple times.
The part of the power that stems from the root is the lines, the end and faults of anything that exists, because that's of course, something only the root knows with that much certainty. This doesn't mean it's erasing anything directly out of the root, it's just as we're told, it's "ending the lifespan and killing the object" or the "existential limit determined at the point of creation" and erasing existence through that
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Its never stated that the MEODP prevent the soul from reaching the root again, just erasing it. Also what happens in Shikis past in the remake support my theory, as after being targeted by SHIKI ( who is stated to have a similar yet different ability), Shiki forgets everything that happened up to that. point, and describes his past self as "dead" and "no longer existing"
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Yes, if you didn't realize, erasing a soul prevents it from reaching the root because there's uhh, nothing to go there.
When a person dies, what normally happens is their soul returns to the root, it's then cleansed and in the end, only the Origin (the concept of you) remains. When the MEoDP kills that concept and your soul, there's nothing to return
Tell me you're not taking figurative speech like Shiki getting his memories sealed and saying his past self is dead, to mean it erased his information from the Root but he's somehow still there
There is no way you're actually implying this right?
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- #64
Then what about the non living things that his eyes kill? when he targets them, they not only break but lose their function.
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Yes, this is explained in KnK and its materials, it's killing them
Essentially, it doesn't actually have anything to do with life, it's whether the user considers it alive, therefore if you consider a working phone or something "alive" then logically when you enact its death, it is no longer a working object, this is also why it works on undead, or why killing an "alive" concept just deletes it
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- #66
e.g the destruction is only an after effect, the existence is wiped first
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No, they both happen at the same time, they're the same effect
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- #68
the target "dies" hence their existence gets erased/ the target falls apart
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Yes, the power is "ending the lifespan and killing the object" which it then goes on to note means it's more accurately the erasure of existence rather than just destruction of an object or thing, it's all one effect, the eyes only actually do the one thing.
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When shiki kills roa, it takes time for him to die, since he has a accumulated history/lifespan, which takes more time to unravel
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I'm not sure we actually know the cause of Roa "surviving" he is declared dead immediately upon the stab, but comes back for a few moments to try and take Shiki's body due to their bond
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kthis was stated in arcueid's route in the 12th chapter, forgot if that was remake or the original though
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cant find the og but the remake says something along these lines
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Ah yes, it was in the original, I thought you meant the remake
In the original, the explanation was that if your weight of existence was super high, like Arcueid or Roa, it'd take longer to erase said heavier existence, so they got some degree of resistance which let them survive like 2 seconds more. Although at the same time, stuff like Chaos apparently has less existential weight than that, so I doubt it's exclusively age
The remake one is just talking about the energy Arc had to use to heal from MEoDP
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- #75
the time taken to destroy them both implies theres more to it besides destruction of the soul, im pretty sure tsukihime doesnt state a difference in their souls durability
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There is no both of them that it takes tike to destroy, it only "takes time" for Roa, no one else (being really generous with that, the entire scene is still over in a moment, Roa just gets like half an attempt at doing something)
It also doesn't imply there's anything to it besides what we already know, again, it kills them, enacting the end of their existence and erasing them, the points are the spots where lines spring out of, and so piercing them annihilates the entire being, because it destroys the concept of them
Existential weight is a thing that exists in multiple Nasu entries, there's never really an explanation for it, however the most likely explanation is it has to do with the Force of Providence, which is described as Existential Inertia, that also doesn't have many explanations, but the general idea would be that having enough of it increases the weight of your existence enough that you can slightly resist the effect of the annihilation of your being, although it still happens anyway. If it is the same as Force of Providence, it makes sense, since the little explanation on it we have is basically its your ability to not die, any time you exist and aren't instantly killed and vanish, that's because you have enough Force of Providence left, your existential inertia didn't run out
Like idk what else you think this implies the eyes do, it's still just death hax which is also EE and concept manip, and negates durability
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Force of Providence seems more like probability/luck manipulation, the weight of existence could also be accumulated history ( which is why roa takes time to die, but arc dies instantly despite being of similar ages, since she was only active for a year in total.)
its more like the eyes inflict a status condition of "death" what ever damage happens afterward is because of the status condition
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No, despite being called luck, Force of Providence isn't really actually like the luck stat or probability manip, it's just the ability to maintain your own existence which is why it can be transplanted into Mash to revive her during Solomon, without enough force of providence then you'd just die as your time would be over, whereas Luck (the stat) is just actual luck, but taken to an extreme. Additionally it is able to power the Black Barrel somehow, it's just overall a weird thing but it is the most likely thing for existential weight, which appears twice and is never explained
And as I've said before, what we're told is that the one singular power of the eyes is to enact the death of a thing which is determined from the moment of its origin. This death is then elaborated on to not be just death in a literal sense, but the end of the existence of a thing, this manifests as Ryougi (better with the eyes) having her lines represent the concept of a thing which she can then kill, whereas Tohno can only see that with the points, with his lines being just the death of the part or object rather than the concept of it, or as explained in the VN, and mats the part "where a substance breaks easily"
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Quick correction, as of the tsuki remake, he can kill concepts. He was able to kill Vlov's idea blood/principle in the Ciel route, which is a "mandate" of the Root/Original cause
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Not Root as in actual root, it's referring to the root of vampires, the true ancestors, that's why Arc has that conversation with Vlov the way she does
Anyway I know he can kill concepts, what I said is his lines however, still don't kill them, and it is still the points which are the "concept of you" unlike Ryougi where the lines are the "concept of you"
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