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My Little Pony FiM Revision Thread (Warning: Season 9 Spoilers)

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Let me break down the current topic.

Question: Should MLP shield durability be higher than base durability?

Example 1: Twilight VS Tirek

Example 2: Starswirl VS PoS

Ways a shield responds to an attack:

  • Tank with no change
  • Possibly shrink? (Need confirmation clip)
  • Shatter
Personal Opinion: If one's base Durability is scaled from AP, then using Magic as a shield should at least double the amount of energy one can take.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Let me break down the current topic.
Question: Should MLP shield durability be higher than base durability?

Example 1: Twilight VS Tirek

Example 2: Starswirl VS PoS

Ways a shield responds to an attack:

  • Tank with no change
  • Possibly shrink? (Need confirmation clip)
  • Shatter
Personal Opinion: If one's base Durability is scaled from AP, then using Magic as a shield should at least double the amount of energy one can take.
Click to expand...
I posted a video where the shield grew smaller when Tirek smashed into it earlier in the thread.
 
Rewatching the clip, we don't see Twilight activate the protective magic on screen, but when we see her in the mountain, the protective magic is malformed. I don't see how this implies shrinking.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Rewatching the clip, we don't see Twilight activate the protective magic on screen, but when we see her in the mountain, the protective magic is malformed. I don't see how this implies shrinking.
Click to expand...
What? I'm talking about after Tirek smashes her through the mountain.

"If you pay attention to Twilight before Tirek hits her (the scene where they plow through a mountain) we can clearly see Twilight's aura shield off the side of the mountain. When they emerge from the other side, Twilight's aura is gone (gone in the sense that it is too small to be seen as it is now wrapped tightly around Twilight's body)."

My own words many many comments above explaining how the shield shrunk in response to Tirek hitting her.
 
Firestorm808 said:
However you two want to put it, Sombra is defeated, end of story.
Click to expand...
I'm saying that Sombra was vaporized, and Lightbuster30 says he wasn't, so it does matter.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Inverse square law is in effect here. If Twilight was at the epicenter of the explosion and her shield tanked it, you'd have a point, but she was halfway across the library from it. I mean the same shield what else? The same shield blocked two hits from the PoS before going down.
Click to expand...
Fine, but just before that, they tanked blasts from each other with shields. Also, you said same shield as if you meant the same thing Twilight and Starlight used to defend against the PoS, that's why I was confused.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
I'd also like to point out that Sombra absolutely shattered Twilight's shield and nearly knocked her over with a casual blast. He also broke her second shield too and pushed her back, though not as much. We aren't going to argue that Sombra is stronger than the PoS now are we? Because he destroyed the shield of someone comparable to Starswirl, while the PoS needed two bloodlusted shots. And if we still feel like arguing Twilight is comparable to Sombra, then this only makes the argument that shields are massively above lasers look worse.
And Twilight, while not able to break Tirek's shield, was able to shove him backwards with her beam, showing the shield wasn't completely foolproof. and that is more than what happens normally.
Click to expand...
That was a simple, hastily conjured shield that Twilight made right as Sombra was bladting her. It stands to reason that Starswirl's shield was stronger because he wasn't panicked. Or, as I said before, it's a special kind of shield only he can do. Like how Shining has a shield spell only he can use. And the second shield looked even less focused than th first, and didn't even shatter. It looked like once Sombra's blast stopped, she just released the "shield."

What's your point? I didn't say shields are completely foolproof.
 
Sorry, but you can't prove it being "hastily formed" made it weaker. You can't even prove it was hastily formed. She can and has cast full powered shields on a dime with very little timeframe. Even less focued? It's a completely different shield, and held up better than her first one. Oh, and despite shielding her, it still failed to block the energy entirely, and she got pushed back by his blast the instant her shield was hit.

Really? A shield only Starswirl can do? We've seen his exact shield used in the past by other characters, with the exact same patterns running along it. The only difference is the color which is influenced by the users magic aura. It's nothing special. It's an outlier, end of story. I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself: No shield in the series has ever held up against attacks literally dozens of times more powerful than the weilder.

That is my point.
 
Those blasts were uncharged bolts compared to their full power. They obviously have control over how powerful their blasts can be, there are multiple examples of this with numerous characters in series. They can even charge their blasts longer to make them stronger. With Starlight's last shield getting pushed back by a more serious laser from Twilight being one example of blasts varying in power. As is the Pony of Shadows using a more serious blast after Twilight blocks him. Not to mention it was a sparring match. If it were a deathmatch it'd have some more merit.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Sorry, but you can't prove it being "hastily formed" made it weaker. You can't even prove it was hastily formed. She can and has cast full powered shields on a dime with very little timeframe. Even less focued? It's a completely different shield, and held up better than her first one. Oh, and despite shielding her, it still failed to block the energy entirely, and she got pushed back by his blast the instant her shield was hit.

Really? A shield only Starswirl can do? We've seen his exact shield used in the past by other characters, with the exact same patterns running along it. The only difference is the color which is influenced by the users magic aura. It's nothing special. It's an outlier, end of story. I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself: No shield in the series has ever held up against attacks literally dozens of times more powerful than the weilder.

That is my point.
Click to expand...
Okay. I could debate, but in the end, I have to admit it's possible (key word: possible) that the PoS feat is an outlier. But there's more evidence than not that a shield is at least somewhat above a character's Ap/base durability.
 
As I stated before, if one's base Durability is scaled from AP, then using Magic as a shield should allow the character to take at least double the amount of energy than before.

Can we agree on "higher with Shields"?
 
Firestorm808 said:
As I stated before, if one's base Durability is scaled from AP, then using Magic as a shield should allow the character to take at least double the amount of energy than before.
Can we agree on "higher with Shields"?
Click to expand...
Higher with shields is a given. I'm just against the idea of being higher to the point of going from low 4-C to high 4-C with them. Thats more than 30 times his ap. That is an insane gap to cross. No shield in My Little Pony has ever displayed such a massive discrepancy with ap.
 
GokuSparkle said:
CinnabarManx421 said:
I'm telling you her only real "power" is Social Influencing.
Click to expand...
She could have different keys, like base, with prep time/ponies, and with the artifacts.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but wasn't she preparing for most of the season? She also had to have Tirek deliver her mail to help her do this in the first place, which shows she couldn't do it alone.
 
Ok, but her manipulating ponies into coming to her side was entirely her own doing and was done in a matter of days.
 
I'm not sure if the Artifact Ritual even has an AP considering that all it does is Magic Draining.
 
In any case, you can start drafting up a Cozy Glow Profile.

In the meantime, we can continue with the EQG scalings.
 
Firestorm808 said:
I'm not sure if the Artifact Ritual even has an AP considering that all it does is Magic Draining.
Click to expand...
It could be High 4-C via absorption, and not technically being High 4-C.
 
Oh, I already watched that. Should we move this to a Spoiler thread?
 
GokuSparkle said:
But it can take away at least up to Large Star Level magic. That's the point.
Click to expand...
Do you have an example of another character being described as a higher tier by draining others of power but not absorbing said power?
 
It can just be described very carefully on the profile. Like "Can absorb magic up to At least High 4-C in potency," or something like that. Or it can just be an ability, but I think it'd be better to have it in the AP section.
 
Okay then... Time to essentially rewrite the reasons for them staying at Tier 4 [and maybe becoming High 4-C through upscaling] :

  • In EqG 1 Sunset was pretty confident that she could rule equestria with just one of the Elements. The only reason Twilight says she can't is because she lost the power of the Element of Magic , and the fact that Twilight doesn't say anything to refute it proves this fact.
  • Pony Twilight refers to MLP:EQG [The First Movie] Magic as the Strongest Force of Magic despite knowing of Discord. This is important for later
  • [Possibly High 4-C]: Both Pony of Shadows and The Prime Dazzlings [not the Empowered Dazzlings in EqG] required banishment from the Pillars to defeat , hinting they are likely comparable according to narration. Not to mention both required means of not being able to outright overpower it through any means and just decided to use banishment , this parallel hints at them being comparable. The Pony of Shadows refers to being stronger than any of them, but never compares himself to them.
  • The Dazzlings are far stronger than their peaks via statements and absorbing the full Magic of Friendship from them along with other sources of power which amplified them enough that they were confident in taking them on , which means each of the Dazzlings are at least as powerful as Discord separately. Yet the newly empowered Elements took hits and fought them separately, for example Rainbow Dash, Twilight, and Sunset managed to fight them separately and even harm them . At lowball this is 3x Discord Level for the Dazzlings.
  • When together the Dazzlings overwhelmed them, implying they are At least 6x Discord Level since each of the Singular Elements hould be comparable to each other and the other Elements are shown to be able ot somewhat keep up with the Dazzlings.
  • SO basically they [The God-Tiers; AKA: Midnight Sparkle / Pony-Up Human Twilight , Sunset Shimmer's Form, Geodes] would make it to High 4-C even if we just used Discord's multiplier of 2x Alicorn Level , and them being at least 6x Discord at a lowball should place them in that tier anyways since 4x Discord would be High 4-C since 8x Alicorn Level was accepted to be High 4-C.
 
> In EqG 1 Sunset was pretty confident that she could rule equestria with just one of the Elements. The only reason Twilight says she can't is because she lost the power of the Element of Magic , and the fact that Twilight doesn't say anything to refute it proves this fact.

One could argue that the Element of Magic is Low Star level to Star level

> Pony Twilight refers to MLP:EQG [The First Movie] Magic as the Strongest Force of Magic despite knowing of Discord. This is important for later.

When did she say this? I checked the script and couldn't find it.

> [Possibly High 4-C]: Both Pony of Shadows and The Prime Dazzlings [not the Empowered Dazzlings in EqG] required banishment from the Pillars to defeat , hinting they are likely comparable according to narration. Not to mention both required means of not being able to outright overpower it through any means and just decided to use banishment , this parallel hints at them being comparable. The Pony of Shadows refers to being stronger than any of them, but never compares himself to them.

The context between their defeats are different. The Pillars had to sacrifice themselves in a ritual to lock themselves with the Pony of Shadows in Limbo. The Dazzlings, on the other hand, were just tricked into flyining into a portal. You can't scale the two together. The Dazzling simply scale from Starswirl.

> The Dazzlings are far stronger than their peaks via statements and absorbing the full Magic of Friendship from them along with other sources of power which amplified them enough that they were confident in taking them on , which means each of the Dazzlings are at least as powerful as Discord separately. Yet the newly empowered Elements took hits and fought them separately, for example Rainbow Dash, Twilight, and Sunset managed to fight them separately and even harm them . At lowball this is 3x Discord Level for the Dazzlings. When together the Dazzlings overwhelmed them, implying they are At least 6x Discord Level since each of the Singular Elements hould be comparable to each other and the other Elements are shown to be able ot somewhat keep up with the Dazzlings. SO basically they [The God-Tiers; AKA: Midnight Sparkle / Pony-Up Human Twilight , Sunset Shimmer's Form, Geodes] would make it to High 4-C even if we just used Discord's multiplier of 2x Alicorn Level , and them being at least 6x Discord at a lowball should place them in that tier anyways since 4x Discord would be High 4-C since 8x Alicorn Level was accepted to be High 4-C.

While I agree that the Dazzlings are stronger than before, I see no direct relation between them and Discord.
 
Are you refering to this?

Twilight Sparkle: The magic contained in my Element was able to unite with those that helped create it! [echoing] Honesty! Kindness! Laughter! Generosity! Loyalty! Magic! Together with a crown, they create a power beyond anything you could imagine, but it is a power you don't have the ability to control! The crown may be upon your head, Sunset Shimmer, but you cannot wield it, because you do not possess the most powerful magic of all: the magic of friendship!

It's established that, when united, Friendship of Magic Beams are stronger than Discord.

With that in mind, here's my suggested power scale:

  • Element of Magic = At least Low 4-C, possibly 4-C
    • At least comparable to Starswirl, the Pillar or Sorcery
    • Sunset was confident enough to face Celestia
  • Friendship of Magic United Beams = At least 2x Star
    • Stronger than Discord
    • Supported by the Main 6 in Season 9 doing the same FiM Beam without the physical elements
  • 1 Prime Dazzling = Starswirl = At least 1/6 Star
  • 1 Powered Dazzling = 1 Pony-Up = At least 1/3 Star
  • 3 Powered Dazzling Combined Attack = At least 1x Star
  • Sci-Twi Pony-Up = Midnight Sparkle ÔëÑ Daydream Shimmer = At least 2x Star
  • Sci-Twi Pony-Up > All Gems Gloriosa
 
Yes, I agree with At least Discord Level for the Magic of Friendship Level entities such as the First Movie EqGs, However, I realized a few things that need to be done first that may make the Rainbow Rocks separately scale to Discord:

  • One is the fact that they compared the power that the Magic of Friendship had to their Prime States. Remember that Magic Explosion that happened when Demon Sunset occured, once they "felt" that at the beginning of the movie they said this:


Then said the same thing about the Equestria Gir's Magic they sense "even before sensing the Magic of Friendship"

Code: 
There is Equestrian magic here. Their negative energy will give us the power we need to get this entire world to do our bidding


Code: 
Our true power is being restored. And that's before we've tapped into the strongest magic here
So again this hints that before they tapped into their "Magic of Friendship" they were essentially at that level.

Here is a direct statement that they were using the "Magic of Friendship", so they should scale to Discord by themselves:

Code: 
They're feeding off of the magic inside you. How can they be using our magic? It's the magic of friendship.
This is expounded upon here:

Code: 
Ever since you started this band, you've been letting little things get to you. I never said anything 'cause I didn't feel like it was my place. Not when I was so new to this whole friendship thing. I still have a lot to learn. But I do know that if you don't work out even the smallest problems right at the start, the magic of friendship can be turned into something else
Meaning they were channeling the power of Friendship, meaning it's fair that they surpassed the Elements of Friendship from S1 by an Unquantifiable amount as they were nigh-equal to a Star Level opponent ontop of having something as powerful as Discord. Yet... They still weren't anywhere near ther full power as only until the very end of the movie were they able to unleash their full powers. But the EqG's are able to fight the Dazzlings separately who were harnessing the Magic of Friendship against the Rainbow Rocks .... So it's fair to say they all scale to the level of Discord. So:

  • the First Movie Equestria Girls' Magic of Friendship is comparable to Discord, or even stronger. [Discord Level]
  • The Dazzlings absorbed the Magic of Friendship from them, so they are scalable to the previous level of the Magic of Friendship + has additional amps that are at lesat comparable to the Equestria Girls' Magic of Friendship as the show hints you need to have roughly equivalent power to even absorb the power from someone to gain that much power through absorption {I.E: Tirek} [Unquantifiably ... or possibly at least 2x Discord Level].
  • The Elements get strong enough to fight the Dazzlings after unlocking a new type of power after the original Magic of Friendship was stolen, even separately as Rarity , Rainbow Dash, and Twilight are able to tank direct blows from their combined attacks... SO it's safe to scale them to the powers of the Dazzlings [Unquantifiably At least 2-4x Discord Level]
  • Sci-Twi absorbed the powers of post-Rainbow Rocks elements + Mirror, which allowed her to have quite a bit of an edge against Daydream Shimmer who had a similar amp [7x those Unquantifiably 2-4x Discord]
  • Sci-Twi broke Rarity's shield, who could tank attacks from Gloriossa, who was hinted that not via their combined effort could they defeat [which means Gloriossa is > Daydream Shimmer, and Sci-Twi Pony-Up Form stomped Gloriossa... AND this is before she got the Geodes ... So far above those who are 2-4x Discord Level]
 
Assuming that the 3 Dazzlings have a combined Negative Magic of Friendship, I think this scaling would be more appropriate.

  • Element of Magic = At least Low 4-C, possibly 4-C
    • At least comparable to Starswirl, the Pillar or Sorcery
    • Sunset was confident enough to face Celestia
  • 1 Prime Dazzling = Starswirl = At least 1/6 Star
  • 3 Powered Dazzling Combined Attack (Negative MoF) = At least 2x Star
  • 1 Powered Dazzling = 1 Pony-Up = At least 2/3 Star
  • Friendship of Magic United Beams = At least 2x Star
    • Stronger than Discord
    • Supported by the Main 6 in Season 9 doing the same FiM Beam without the physical elements
  • Sci-Twi Pony-Up = Midnight Sparkle ÔëÑ Daydream Shimmer = At least 2x Star
  • Sci-Twi Pony-Up > All Gems Gloriosa
  • All Gems Gloriosa > 1 Pony-Up = At least 2/3 Star
 
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