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My Little Pony FiM Revision Thread (Warning: Season 9 Spoilers) [Part 2]

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

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Hello. This is a thread that will be discussing the upgrade attempt. In the previous thread it was agreed to make a thread but was unsure who should do it. To avoid wasting anymore time I've taken in upon myself to make this thread, as the one who wished the upgrade originally wanted either me or another to do it. In the last thread was highlighted the following issues:

Previous Threads Issues:

This thread will be more focused however on the Season 9 Ending. However, feel free to adjust any of the aforementioned issues that haven't been fully resolved. If you do not want to get spoiled I highly suggest you click off of the thread or unfollow it. Because this was intentionally made to go through these issues specifically.

....

... Last Warning

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... Okay:

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...

...

Discord has 2 statements (not feats) that may imply 3-A or perhaps even Low 2-C depending on other factors. Some of these are in the Season 9 Finale. The examples of such are noted below in the following time stamps:

However, before we do this... We need to relook at "To Where and Back".. A statement was treated as hax / spatial manipulation:

Discord: So I'm able to rip the very fabric of reality again

Discord: Yes, but when the throne is destroyed, I'll be able to rip the very fabric of reality to save our friends, while you'll still be a self-absorbed, below-average illusionist!
This statement is weird, but spatial manipulation wouldn't really help out here in terms of context. He hasn't shownt he ability to warp to another person's location, and teleportation doesn't exactly twist the fabric of reality. It affects space. So this seems to be more AP oriented based on this context as nn implications of it just being 'moving through space' is noted or even remotely implie. Plus, the "fabric of reality" has been shown to be used as justification for Low 2-C on various profiles:

In this time stamp He talks to Cozy Glow, Tirek, and Sombra about how his power can "warp all of reality". Arguments: He wouldn't be lying here as he essentially is at an place where everything he cares about including himself and Fluttershy who have the potential to be extremely hurt if he was lying. He even said the reason he became Grogar was purely because he thought Twilight needed to be ready, however he has no alterior motive to lie and used it as a way to only let him suffer. This and the intelligence of Discord severely limits the probability of him lying.

At this time stamp Pinkie backs this up by stating with DIscord's power she can tear apart the cosmos, reforming it to make one big paty

Arguments: Pinkie is one of the few whose aware of other realities, such as her cameo alongside EqG Pinkie and hte indication they switch a lot. Secondly she can understand the concepts of space-time and even the concept of 4-Dimensional conceps surprisingly as mentioned in Friendship Games. She was also the only one able to keep it together "somewhat" as the Chaotic form and even use it's power, so she has more merit to her statement than most would believe.

To support this statement not being an out of nowhere outlier: Midnight Sparkle "from Friendship Games" was stated to be capable of destroying both the Equestria Reality & Equestria Universes, hinting this is very likely Low 2-C as the feat was over time, but would be significantly above baseline:

Code: 
Sugarcoat: At least they didn't manipulate Twilight into releasing all the stolen magic and turning into a power-crazed magical creature that tried to rip the world apart just to win a game
Another indication was during Mirror Magic, when Sci-Twi herself stated it as such, and due to the fact she was essentially Midnight in this timeframe it should be notable: Twilight Sparkle: Overpowered by a magic I couldn't control and created a rift between two worlds, almost destroying both of them in the process.

Then there was a statement within the movie Friendship Games when the direct indication she was at least destroying Equestria:

Code: 
Sci-Twi (Midnight Sparkle):There's a whole other world right there and it's just filled with magic! Sunset: But you're destroying this world to get it!


Arguments: Originally the feat was merely deemed as an outlier and due to previous notions that they are complete fodder so it would mean the likes of... "Unicorns" would scale above them , but due to the statements within Equestria Girls byTwilight Sparkle there are statements that the power of the Elements in Equestia Girls actually exceeds Discord's by a significant amount by the end. So Midnight Sparkle's feat would support the level of power of being equal or above Discord would imply.

Decision (Based on personal Opinions). There are 3 potential Options: 1) There are 3 Options for the 3-A/Low 2-C Discord:

  • Option 1 is to go based on the fact we've seen through the verse that Discord isn't this unattainable level of power... The Elements, All-Alicorn Twilight / Rainbow Power Post-Mane SixTirek, EqG Dazzlings, EqG EoH & those scaling upward , Etc have all indications of being > Discord and as a result would be affected.
  • Option 2 is have everyone Celestia/Luna Level scale to Discord due to being roughly about 1/2 - 1/3rd of his power.
  • Option 3 is to have Discord only scaling to it and every other indicaion being PIS because he holds back a lot.
Options 1 & 3 are the safest, Option 2... Isn't as safe.

This is the main bulk of the argument. Lightbuster may want to add a few things but this is about it. Feel free to give your feedback below. Have a nice day and happy debating here...
 
Option 2 is perferctly safe. By definition, he has been overpowered by people marginally stronger than the princesses. At max he is < 3 times their strength since Grogar's full power made three people alicorn level. Option three makes absolutely no sense since Tirek specifically stole his magic, something Tirek simply cannot do unless he is comparable to the one he is absorbing. It's happened far too many times to be PIS and him being so strong compared to everyone else breaks the setting. He's shown too many times to not be infinitely above everyone else for option three to be true.

Oh and you should include all of the times MLP has refered to Universe in the space time sense.
 
Prefer more context, but he does already have good Reality Warping for sure. Princess Celestia and Luna's 4-C feat is indeed casual, but I'm iffy about Low 2-C. Not saying it's impossible, if it's stated he can destroy or collapse the fabric of reality, then it would be a Low 2-C statement.

As for the scaling, I'm also neutral on that. He's far above the Alicorns and often toys with them; similar to the King Sombra incident. And there's also the idea that he was considered above the combined might of Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, and Base Tirek. And also, even those who absorb his powers were literally incapable of controlling it. Tirek overpowered and absorbed Discord that one time, but even he hasn't showcased it. and Spoilers for the ending, the three united villains absorbed all the same magic; being Discord and the Alicorns yet they still couldn't control Discord's Chaos power.

If Discord is going to be upgraded however, I don't think Tirek should really scale given his lack of true control, but he was stomped by Rainbow Power. It could scale to Rainbow Power, but not quite fine with scaling it to anyone other than Discord and Rainbow Power. Not familiar with Equestria Girls, so I'm neutral on Midnight Sparkle.

Somewhere in between options 1 and 3, 2 definitely feels iffy.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
and Spoilers for the ending, the three united villains absorbed all the same magic; being Discord and the Alicorns yet they still couldn't control Discord's Chaos power.

Somewhere in between options 1 and 3, 2 definitely feels iffy.
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of not being strong enough, it's a matter of knowledge. Discord outright says he'll tell them how to control his magic. It's clearly not a matter power.
 
I suppose that makes sense, but only option 1 would be fine at best. Option 2 feels stretchy.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I suppose that makes sense, but only option 1 would be fine at best.
Click to expand...
Why? As I've pointed out multiple times: Discord is blatantly only finitely above the princesses. He was overpowered by Tirek, a bell with 3x Alicorn power at it's max, and the magic of 4 alicorns can match Tirek with his magic. He's not infintely above them and it's been shown multiple times.
 
The problem is that Discord often toys with everyone, and fiction often has PIS to the point where even Tier 9 characters have been shown to sort of harm or knock around Tier 1 characters. And the Alicorns themselves are also inconsistent, they aren't always portrayed as god tiers in every scene; MLP the movie is an example of this. They have their own casual 4-C feat they perform regularly, but nothing beyond that. But still, Discord is often portrayed as being able to stomp everyone including the combined Alicorns if he was 100% serious.
 
This has happened too many times to be labelled as PIS. And this isn't the only time it's happened either. Starswirl beam clashing a prime Pony of Shadow's (Pony of Shadow's would've instantly overwhelmed his beam and blast through Starswirl if he were infintiely above the guy) Breaking his dark tendrils over time, shielding his attacks, same PoS that is a bit below the EoH?

I don't doubt he stomps them. Reality warping tends to do that. To an infinite degree? No I don't believe that, breaks the setting and certain plot points from previous episodes.
 
To clarify a bit for everybody, the only evidence we have for 3-A are 3 unconfirmed statements, no feats whatsoever:

Discord: "I'll be able to rip the very fabric of reality to save our friends."

Discord: "It would give you power over all reality."

Pinkie Pie: "I feel like I could transform the cosmos so everything is made of icing."

This isn't really much evidence to base a definitive upgrade to 3-A on. At most "High 4-C, possibly 3-A", but we would need more staff input first.

As Medeus mentioned, Discord should also really only scale to the Rainbow Power and maybe the Elements of Harmony. Other characters, with consistently enormously lower feats, presenting a problem for a 3-A character would have to be treated as plot-induced stupidity.
 
The Elements of Harmony generally should be possibly 3-A as that's the only canonical time Discord got truly beaten honestly... Plus there are several statements that Discords magic was dwarfed by the Elements.

Pony Twilight knowing of the Elements powers [post defesting Discord due to literally channeling them and the events chronologically the first movie being between S3 & S4], of Equestria & knowing of Discord outright stated the Equestria Girls Elements were the strongest magic she knew of at the time. That is where I'm getting that from. Midnight scales far, far above the aforementioned Elements.

I agree with Medeus to the extent most examples of the Alicorns being low tier are relevant, and the finale definitely seems to lean towards it. However, Tirek wasn't. We don't know what kind of increase would stacking Alicorns equal besides assumptions that its just a multiplier. Magic tends to be exponential, as when essentially he was absorbong tier 6s to rival a tier 4. So absorbing in Tireks case should be treated, unless the Alicorns are shown otherwise, to be an exponential increase rather than a gradual multiplier if the Alicorns are still treated as PIS.
 
King Sombra shouldn't scale; he destroyed the tree of harmony; which I don't think would be quite as durable as the magic it produces. Also, Discord faked being knocked out by Sombra when Discord could have stomped him easily if he wanted to. Then the Mane 6 were able to recreate the Elements of Harmony through their own friendship. It's safe to assume the Ponies themselves are as durable when empowered by the EoH, but not the tree itself.
 
Is somebody willing to ask more staff members to help out here? I am very exhausted in general, and cannot argue for prolonged periods on my own.
 
Anyway, we need more input regarding whether the 3 statements are enough to go by for scaling Discord, the Elements, and the Rainbow Power to "At least High 4-C, possibly 3-A".
 
I could ask WeeklyBattles, I think he is a supporter of the verse iirc. Nevermind, he said he's too far behind to give proper input.
 
You don't have to restrict yourself to supporters. Just pick a few reasonable staff members from the list that I posted earlier. It is part of he staff duties to give input for fictions that we are not familiar with as well, especially rather straightforward cases like this.
 
I asked Ultima Reality, he appear to be one of our most knowledgeable experts when it comes to statements such as "Fabric of Reality".
 
I've already watched the finally, and that's sort of true. Though, try to avoid spoiling too much.
 
Ibwould like for it to be noted that King Boo is Low 2C using the exact same method as Midnight's feat. The only difference it is directly stated to affect two Universes, not just 1... Which seems to be unfathomably higher end of Low 2C rather than 3A. And hax in MLP is directly related to a set amount of power you have, not just "hax sorely for the sake of being it"... Especially when Twolight later recalls her powers as capable of ending both universes, not just through hax... The verse treated it as an actual feat of power.
 
That depends. For Midnight Sparkle's feats are the different worlds alternate universes/realities, or are they large pocket dimensions. Or did they simply mean planets? I haven't watched any of the Equestria Girls ones, so I wouldn't know. Context will decide whether it's Tier 2 or Tier 3.
 
Did worlds refer to the two planets or two universes in this case?
 
Yes, but that does not mean that the entire universes were included when describing a threat to the worlds. Frequently within fiction and otherwise, that simply refers to the local planet.
 
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