My Little Pony FiM Revision Thread (Warning: Season 9 Spoilers) [Part 2]

[ThatDude343]

The means of how the shield was broken are irrelevant, the fact is Chrysalis could while Cozy couldn't.

You never differientiated between planner villian and combat villian, you just said final villian.


Which again goes towards my point that they never were equals as to which you are inferring.


We just established that Twilight doesn't need the elements to preform her rainbow shenangians anymore, she's beyond that now.

Either way, being weaker than Chrysalis doesn't mean she's weaker than Twilight.
Well, in that case, I'll clarify. What kind of show has a final villain that's meant to be a threat in terms of strength and is weaker than the main character?

Twilight, since sh'e studied magic her whole life, is more skilled. Cozy, with probably more than 1/3 of Grogar's power, is stronger.

I mean the people who represent the elements: past, present, or future. And she didn't have that at the time, so either way, that Twilight wasn't as strong as both princesses combined.

Of course it does because we are using the shield as a metric for determining Chrysalis was stronger in the first place. Bell Chrysalis > S9E25 Twilight > Cozy Glow

In shows that is about fighting and combat in general, that would be agreeable. This isn't Dragon Ball. Shows like Batman and MLP where the villian is more focused on testing the main character's philosophy has no standing on whether or not the villian is stronger than the main.

Again, there is more evidence to infer that she is in fact, not stronger than base Twilight. The evidence that shows this outnumbers the evidence that claims she is not.

Yeah it took all iterations of the elements to get her to realize her true potential, it's not a temporary power-up. Therefore it can be considered a base. I consider this to be stronger than both princesses based off scaling and I'll leave it at that

 

[Lightbuster30]

The shield is a terrible metric in this scenario anyhow. Twilight clearly let her fear get the better of her and it weakened the shield. You can see it get corrupted and turn green. I don't even think it was a proper attack.

 

[ThatDude343]

Well, I don't think they can really control how much they each get in their share. Nor do I think they can sense how much power each other got. Keep in mind Tirek said they couldn't take the princesses magic without taking Discord's as well, so it seems they can't choose the magic they want to take from the bell. It's like in Baldi's Basics where you can't choose what item you want to give the bully. Even if Cozy did get the most out of the three, she's still the weakest due to how vastly inferior she is to them when all three are in their normal states, so it's not like she's a threat to the other two. Moreover, even if she did become stronger than the other two, they would have no way of knowing that unless she tried to turn on them. This isn't like Dragonball where you can sense energy. They have no way of knowing how much power each of them got until they test it out. That's why Cozy was surprised when she couldn't use Discord's magic effectively.
Anyway, for the post love absorption Chrysalis vs post BB Chrysalis debate, that comes down to how powerful you believe season 9 Starlight is compared to Celestia and how much the different ways Chrysalis fought Celestia and Starlight matters. I will say though that in her base form, Chrysalis was at least able to briefly contend with Mean Twilight, though we don't know if she's exactly as strong as regular Twilight and in any case certainly has nowhere near the skill or experience as her, so Chrysalis in her base state should clearly be weaker than Twilight as of season 8, and Starlight was said to be roughly equal to Twilight or possibly even a little bit stronger.

Tbh, now that I think about it, is there really any problem saying Starlight is stronger than Celestia based off the scaling? I'm geuninely curious. I am certain it would look really weird for a veteran alicorn god of the sun to be outmatched by a glorified secretary, but if the feats speak for themselves then it's something to look at it. The finale really did screw around with the scaling.


I'm still leaning towards the explanation that their different methods of fighting LA Chryalis and Bell Chrysalis had a huge impact.

 

[ThatDude343]

The shield is a terrible metric in this scenario anyhow. Twilight clearly let her fear get the better of her and it weakened the shield. You can see it get corrupted and turn green. I don't even think it was a proper attack.

We've never seen Twilight's magic turn green on dependent on what she's feeling, I don't think any character has had their magic hue change color dependent on emotions.

You still could be on to something though, but what does that really change in this scenario? That would imply that neither Chrysalis or Cozy would have been able to break the shield via brute force.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Dark magic can be green, black, or both and is based on hatred and fear. Conveniently what Chrysalis brought up right before the shield broke. I'd like to imagine something happened to Twilight's magic to make the shield break. The thing wasn't even attacked iirc.

 

[ThatDude343]

Dark magic can be green, black, or both and is based on hatred and fear. Conveniently what Chrysalis brought up right before the shield broke. I'd like to imagine something happened to Twilight's magic to make the shield break. The thing wasn't even attacked iirc.

except using Dark magic in MLP doesn't make spells weaker.


rewatch the scene, Chrysalis' horn glows green and electricity pulses from her hooves. She clearly did something.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Whatever she did feels too vague to say she is outright stronger than the shield with brute force. I've never seen a single shield get affected by magic in that way. Feels kinda outlierish that she broke it so easily. I'm still of the belief Twilight's shield got weakened by her own fear. We hear her yelp and flinch in fear after Chrysalis brings it up. I'm wrong about dark magic corruption playing a part, but I still think fear in general is still on the table.

 

[ThatDude343]

Twilight's yelp in "fear" looked really evidently to me as a cry of pain. I really disagree on the idea that Chrysalis' words made the difference and I don't know what's the problem with that. However, I'm getting off track to my original point. If this scenario comes up again, I'd be willing to discuss it in further detail, but I remember why I came to this point in the first place

Just before 25 ends, we see the villian trio blast Twilight simulatenously while she defends herself with the rock. Because the rock didn't break immediately, it's safe to assume that Twilight's magic tanked a blast from all 3 juiced villians. I'd' like to believe that the rock started to give way after Twilight teleported away/gave up control. Considering Cozy Glow's strongest feat was a magic blast, this looks like decisive piece of evidence that shows that Twilight is in fact stronger than Bell Cozy.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Twilight's yelp in "fear" looked really evidently to me as a cry of pain. I really disagree on the idea that Chrysalis' words made the difference and I don't know what's the problem with that. However, I'm getting off track to my original point. If this scenario comes up again, I'd be willing to discuss it in further detail, but I remember why I came to this point in the first place
Just before 25 ends, we see the villian trio blast Twilight simulatenously while she defends herself with the rock. Because the rock didn't break immediately, it's safe to assume that Twilight's magic tanked a blast from all 3 juiced villians. I'd' like to believe that the rock started to give way after Twilight teleported away/gave up control. Considering Cozy Glow's strongest feat was a magic blast, this looks like decisive piece of evidence that shows that Twilight is in fact stronger than Bell Cozy.

I'm not sure why it would hurt her when Twilight's not in contact with the shield. Not just her words, she jumped onto the shield and began casting a spell on it and that is what caused Twilight to feel fear. It honestly doesn't sound like a pained yelp.

 

[ThatDude343]

Twilight is expending mental energy to keep the shield up, she doesn't need to be in contact with it to feel pain. We've seen this in the show before.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If Cozy Glow was given enough might to be a big enough threat that Celestia and Luna felt the need to combine their power in the exact same way they did against Sombra then logically, the far more powerful Chrysalis who is <= Starswirl tier, ought to be at least Celestia tier.
@Goku Sparkle: Which version of Twilight is significantly weaker than Chrysalis? S7 Twilight or End of S9 Twilight, because I heavily disagree with the later.

Side note: After re-watching Chrysalis vs Starlight, Starlight never got knocked out. She got knocked down by the blast and Chrysalis cocooned her before she could do anything. At berst you can say Chrysalis dazed her for a moment, but recovered quickly. Starlight was clearly conscious in that scene. So the only other scene left portraying Starlight as immensely weaker than Chrysalis is one where she is tired from doing a big blast and had her back turned. One less L.

Why is weaker than starswirl stronger than celestia?

Season 9 Twilight is weaker than Bell Chrysalis.

It wasn't even a direct shot. It was the shockwaveof the blast that knocked Starlight to her feet. Starlight clearly wasn't confident in taking on Chrysalis in direct combat. She had to use the environment to even stand a chance, and that barely did a thing to Chrysalis. It's telling that something Starlight thought would be more effective than her strongest attack had little effect on Chrysalis.

 

[Jackxagon]

I always interpreted that scene as Chrysalis breaking Twilight's shield with her magic aura alone (infusing with the shield, weakening it).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Of course it does because we are using the shield as a metric for determining Chrysalis was stronger in the first place. Bell Chrysalis > S9E25 Twilight > Cozy Glow

In shows that is about fighting and combat in general, that would be agreeable. This isn't Dragon Ball. Shows like Batman and MLP where the villian is more focused on testing the main character's philosophy has no standing on whether or not the villian is stronger than the main.

Again, there is more evidence to infer that she is in fact, not stronger than base Twilight. The evidence that shows this outnumbers the evidence that claims she is not.

Yeah it took all iterations of the elements to get her to realize her true potential, it's not a temporary power-up. Therefore it can be considered a base. I consider this to be stronger than both princesses based off scaling and I'll leave it at that

That clearly wasn't the same thing. Like Lightbuster30 said, Twilight got scared and let that get the better of her.

But in MLP, the villains are supposed to be more powerful than the heroes, so they can't defeat them by conventional means, and have to use the magic of friendship. In the final battle, if Twilight was really stronger than Cozy, why wouldn't she have gone for her and tried to take her out? She would've thinned out the villains' ranks and made the battle much easier.

But you can read pretty clearly from all the scenes involving them that Cozy is meant to be seen as stronger. Whether or not logic actually dictates this, there's a lot of stuff supporting Cozy being stronger. She swatted aside Twilight like a rag doll by a beam. She didn't seem at all unsure in taking on 3 alicorns. Celestia and Luna thought they had to combine their powers to defeat Cozy. Not once did Twilight actually hurt Cozy. She's a final villain in a show with villains that are supposed to be strong enough to be a threat in terms of strength. And that's just what I thought of off the top of my head. I know there are arguments to be made that these points aren't solid enough, but clearly Cozy is meant to be seen as stronger. Yeah, there's stuff showing Twilight as stronger, but more evidence supporting Cozy being at least equal to Twilight.

But she's not constantly glowing. And I'm pretty sure she still needs to take the friendship magic from these ponies to enter this ultimate state. And anyways, can we stop debating this? It's not important. Either way, Twilight didn't get this form until the end of the finale, and I'm saying Twilight in the middle of the episode was weaker than the royal sisters combined.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I always interpreted that scene as Chrysalis breaking Twilight's shield with her magic aura alone (infusing with the shield, weakening it).

It's honestly hard to say. Either way, I don't think you can make a direct comparison between Chrysalis and Cozy, as slamming your fists against a barrier magically and shooting it are very different. It'd be logical to assume a blast would be stronger, but that attack Chrysalis did was special. It's not something we've seen before.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Twilight's yelp in "fear" looked really evidently to me as a cry of pain. I really disagree on the idea that Chrysalis' words made the difference and I don't know what's the problem with that. However, I'm getting off track to my original point. If this scenario comes up again, I'd be willing to discuss it in further detail, but I remember why I came to this point in the first place
Just before 25 ends, we see the villian trio blast Twilight simulatenously while she defends herself with the rock. Because the rock didn't break immediately, it's safe to assume that Twilight's magic tanked a blast from all 3 juiced villians. I'd' like to believe that the rock started to give way after Twilight teleported away/gave up control. Considering Cozy Glow's strongest feat was a magic blast, this looks like decisive piece of evidence that shows that Twilight is in fact stronger than Bell Cozy.

If you take everything at face value, that means Twilight is stronger than all 3 villains combined. Tier doesn't necessarily equal durability/shield durability.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Twilight is expending mental energy to keep the shield up, she doesn't need to be in contact with it to feel pain. We've seen this in the show before.

When?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Why is weaker than starswirl stronger than celestia?

Season 9 Twilight is weaker than Bell Chrysalis.

It wasn't even a direct shot. It was the shockwaveof the blast that knocked Starlight to her feet. Starlight clearly wasn't confident in taking on Chrysalis in direct combat. She had to use the environment to even stand a chance, and that barely did a thing to Chrysalis. It's telling that something Starlight thought would be more effective than her strongest attack had little effect on Chrysalis.

It's not? I said if Grogar's magic made a filly Celestia tier the it ought to make Chrysalis; whom is already in the tier 4 range, that strong.

Highly debatable.

It wasn't the shockwave. You can say the shockwave knocked her off her feet, but the explosion absolutely made a direct hit and it only dazed her for a few moments. Her blast definitely did something to Chrysalis. We can hear Chrysalis grunt when Starlight blasted her directly. Chrysalis took Starlight's magic, but she didn't tank it. Otherwise she wouldn't have gotten blasted backwards, she wouldn't have gotten pissed over it, and she wouldn't have grunted when hit. To tank is to feel absolutely nothing from an attack, like Tirek did against Starswirl. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the blast caused signifigant harm or anything, but it clearly affected Chrysalis.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Ohhh, that's what you meant. I agree.

Is it? Chrysalis is significantly above Celestia tier. I don't know if Twilight was that strong. Also, that attack from Chrysalis did break her shield. I know you think that's from fear, but she did clearly use some magic on the barrier, so it wasn't just that for sure.

I rewatched the scene in slow motion. The explosion definitely didn't touch her directly. It was many meters away from her. It was definitely the shockwave that knockedher away and unconscious for a second.

Being mad doesn't necessarily mean she was hurt. It could've just been that she thought it was offensive that a queen was touched by a peasant such as her. Yeah, it did affect her, but that doesn't mean she's comparable. Just relatively in the same league. Which makes sense if she scales to Twi. She would be about alicorn tier, and Chrysalis would be significantly above that, but not humungously so.

 

[Lightbuster30]

And I'm calling outlier on breaking a shield when no one else could, and even more importantly: The ease she did it. All she did was generate magic electricity and it broke the shield. That's too casual of a feat. Makes more sense for Twilight's fear (which was visibly and audibly shown on this exact scene) to have weakened the shield.

No, the shockwave knocked her back. The explosion definitly hit her directly. At one point the green of the explosion is all over the screen, and Starlight;s entire body is still on screen, within the green. Of cours; assuming you're interpretation is true, then much like the shield: It'd be an outlier for Chrysalis to be strong enough to hit Starlight hard enough to daze her for a few seconds with the indirect shockwave of her blows. Shockwaves in mathematical terms get exponentially weaker than the explosion causing them from even a few feet away, from it which would make Chrysalis many orders of magnitude stronger than Starlight. Chrysalis would be unrealistically stronger than Starlight, well beyond Starlight's ability to affect to any degree if this were the case.

So either Chrysalis's one true feat against Starlight is an outlier because it creates an unrealistic strength disrepency and the best we have is "Starlight wasn't confident in taking her head on" (which is vague as hell and could imply any form of strength difference) or she's strong enough to momentarily daze her for a moment with a direct hit from her blasts.

I have to disagree with you there. Chrysalis got pissed off because she felt Starlight's hit, not because she felt affronted. Yet again, we can audibly hear Chrysalis grunt when she gets blasted. I pointed this out in the very comment you replied to.

 

[Jackxagon]

Why is weaker than starswirl stronger than celestia?

Season 9 Twilight is weaker than Bell Chrysalis.

It wasn't even a direct shot. It was the shockwaveof the blast that knocked Starlight to her feet. Starlight clearly wasn't confident in taking on Chrysalis in direct combat. She had to use the environment to even stand a chance, and that barely did a thing to Chrysalis. It's telling that something Starlight thought would be more effective than her strongest attack had little effect on Chrysalis.

It's not? I said if Grogar's magic made a filly Celestia tier the it ought to make Chrysalis; whom is already in the tier 4 range, that strong.
Highly debatable.

It wasn't the shockwave. You can say the shockwave knocked her off her feet, but the explosion absolutely made a direct hit and it only dazed her for a few moments. Her blast definitely did something to Chrysalis. We can hear Chrysalis grunt when Starlight blasted her directly. Chrysalis took Starlight's magic, but she didn't tank it. Otherwise she wouldn't have gotten blasted backwards, she wouldn't have gotten pissed over it, and she wouldn't have grunted when hit. To tank is to feel absolutely nothing from an attack, like Tirek did against Starswirl. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the blast caused signifigant harm or anything, but it clearly affected Chrysalis.

Sorry for interveining, but I think you're missing something important here. The difference of weight between a giant centaur and a bug.

Basically, the heavier something is, more energy is required to move it. And it doesn't mean "X" is more durable or powerful than "Y" just because of knock back or weight (pick materials for example: A piece of carbon fiber is super light, but way stronger than steel)

and chrysalis was flying. It's way easier to knock back something mid air, because there's no friction whatsoever with the ground.

 

[Lightbuster30]

My comparison isn't: Starlight moved Chrysalis while Starswirl couldn't move Tirek. My comparison is: Starlight hit Chrysalis hard enough to make her grunt and groan (indicating she felt it to a degree), whereas Tirek felt physically; that is to say, no pain from being hit.

Also, I'm skeptical of that. Chrysalis was mid air, but she was also flying towards Starlight, which necessitated that Starlight overcome her kinetic energy from flying. Of course this again doesn't really matter since my argument isn't based on getting knocked backwards.

 

[ThatDude343]

That clearly wasn't the same thing. Like Lightbuster30 said, Twilight got scared and let that get the better of her.

But in MLP, the villains are supposed to be more powerful than the heroes, so they can't defeat them by conventional means, and have to use the magic of friendship. In the final battle, if Twilight was really stronger than Cozy, why wouldn't she have gone for her and tried to take her out? She would've thinned out the villains' ranks and made the battle much easier.

But you can read pretty clearly from all the scenes involving them that Cozy is meant to be seen as stronger. Whether or not logic actually dictates this, there's a lot of stuff supporting Cozy being stronger. She swatted aside Twilight like a rag doll by a beam. She didn't seem at all unsure in taking on 3 alicorns. Celestia and Luna thought they had to combine their powers to defeat Cozy. Not once did Twilight actually hurt Cozy. She's a final villain in a show with villains that are supposed to be strong enough to be a threat in terms of strength. And that's just what I thought of off the top of my head. I know there are arguments to be made that these points aren't solid enough, but clearly Cozy is meant to be seen as stronger. Yeah, there's stuff showing Twilight as stronger, but more evidence supporting Cozy being at least equal to Twilight.

But she's not constantly glowing. And I'm pretty sure she still needs to take the friendship magic from these ponies to enter this ultimate state. And anyways, can we stop debating this? It's not important. Either way, Twilight didn't get this form until the end of the finale, and I'm saying Twilight in the middle of the episode was weaker than the royal sisters combined.

Again, I don't know how you are interpreting that reaction as a sign of fear when it is very audibly and visually a grimace. I guess the only way to prove it would be looking at the transcript for the actual episode.


The villians were an ultimate threat together, whether they like it or not. They could't have conquered Equestria alone at this point in the story without each other by disharmonzing the creatures and striking multiple targets at once. Tirek states it right before the end of episode 25. "There's no rainbow magic to save you now!" This is decisive proof that they are aware that they needed to somehow weaken Twilight in some shape or form before actually conquering Equestria. Notice how they don't even attempt to combat the final rainbow attack because they know they are screwed. As for why she didn't single out Cozy in the final batle is actually pretty simple. There are literally two other villians standing right there and would easily come to their aid. BFR isn't an option either because then you would get a hostage situation with the rest of her friends, and finally, they had a plan to capture the Bell and get Discord/Princesses their magic back.

I'm still baffled on to why you think that because Cozy landed a hit on Twilight that somehow proves that she's her equal. IIRC, Twilight never got a chance to fire a beam at Cozy.


My point is that she can do it at will. She just needed to get her head in the game. As long as there is harmony, she can use the friendship of others to access that power. What would you even call this version of Twilight anyway? It doesn't make any sense to recall to it as a final form. But I digress, it's not relevant.

 

[ThatDude343]

If you take everything at face value, that means Twilight is stronger than all 3 villains combined. Tier doesn't necessarily equal durability/shield durability.

That's only a problem if you think that Attack Potency should equal Durability, something I've been against for the longest time.

 

[Jackxagon]

she barely started to fly towards starlight when she was blasted, there was very low amount of kinetic energy (based on her speed and weight). but since it wasn't the point, moving on.

It's chrysalis we're talking about, she does that all the time (here at 0:42 she also grunted and groaned the same way , so... not a very accurate indicative of pain).

and after she was blasted, she returned in a split second. She did get surprised by the impact, but it looks like it did absolutely nothing to her, no stun, nothing.

By contrast, the two indirect hits starlight took clearly affected her (One at 0:52, stunned her for a split second, being unable to use the teleport before hiting the ground, and at 1:11, which KO'd her )

and yes, that final blast from chrysalis was an indirect hit, because starlight felt it even before the explosion expanded (just slowdown the video). and about the whole screen being green, it's about 3D and perspective, that green was behind starlight, not at her. (it never reached her, since the ground she was standing was not affected).

 

[ThatDude343]

Twilight is expending mental energy to keep the shield up, she doesn't need to be in contact with it to feel pain. We've seen this in the show before.

When?

Off the top of my head:

Crystal Empire

Shadow Play

and there's 1 more where a unicorn does it that i forget, if it's really necessary. I can find it

 

[Lightbuster30]

It's chrysalis we're talking about, she does that all the time (here at 0:42 she also grunted and groaned the same way , so... not a very accurate indicative of pain).

By contrast, the two indirect hits starlight took clearly affected her (One at 0:52, stunned her for a split second, being unable to use the teleport before hiting the ground, and at 1:11, which KO'd her )

and yes, that final blast from chrysalis was an indirect hit, because starlight felt it even before the explosion expanded (just slowdown the video). and about the whole screen being green, it's about 3D and perspective, that green was behind starlight, not at her. (it never reached her, since the ground she was standing was not affected).

It's not the same grunt and it was blatantly in response to Starlight's magic. The former is a grunt of annoyance. The second is in response to getting hit.

Then I call outlier. The first blast was at least a few feet from her. Indirect blasts should not be strong enough to affect Starlight like that even if she we're 1/5th of Chrysalis's strength. If they were direct hits I wouldn't be saying this, but indirect hits imply a strength difference by entire orders of magnitude. The second blast (the one where she gets dazed not knocked out since she was conscious seconds later.) has this even worse thanks to greater distance meaning greater power loss, implying an even bigger strength direspancy.

 

[Jackxagon]

If you take everything at face value, that means Twilight is stronger than all 3 villains combined. Tier doesn't necessarily equal durability/shield durability.

That's only a problem if you think that Attack Potency should equal Durability, something I've been against for the longest time.

I agree, specially if we're talking about shield durability.

Dont we have a 100%, clear as water feat, in that very scene, showing that shield durability is way above raw durability? Cozy Glow knocked Twilight out with a direct hit, but it didn't do a dent at her shield later on (with a more powerful blast, might I add).

 

[Lightbuster30]

Seriously, if Chrysalis's indirect blasts can blow Starlight back, and even daze her with stronger versions, then that direct beam she took in episode 25 should have blown a hole though her back and torso.

 

[ThatDude343]

I agree, specially if we're talking about shield durability.

Dont we have a 100%, clear as water feat, in that very scene, showing that shield durability is way above raw durability? Cozy Glow knocked Twilight out with a direct hit, but it didn't do a dent at her shield later on (with a more powerful blast, might I add).

Yup, atleast when it's Twilight, it's very evident that she has some trouble taking hits.


The highest raw durability we've seen is Tirek literally no-selling Star Swirl's attack. In 26, Twilight managed to drop him.


The only time when Tirek ever used a shield was 4x Alicorn Twilight's large magic beam in S4. As we see as the fight progresses, Tirek actually takes damage if he doesn't block it.

 

[Jackxagon]

Seriously, if Chrysalis's indirect blasts can blow Starlight back, and even daze her with stronger versions, then that direct beam she took in episode 25 should have blown a hole though her back and torso.

Of course, a TV-Y children cartoon obviously can do that... (spike 4-B confirmed,since he didn't exploded into pieces?)

also, it's easy calling everything that disproves your point an outlier.

Why can't we accept this discrepancy, though? You saw how strong chrysalis was when she poofed Twilight's shield with just her magic aura. (The same shield twilight blocked cozy's attack with no problem at all, if not a stronger one)

Can I play that game too? If you believe Chrysalis was damaged by Starlight, how can you prove it's not an Outlier to begin with?

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm actually considering it being PIS or an outlier for Spike to have survived.

That shit is exactly why I'm calling it an outlier. Chrysalis being stronger than her fellow 4-Bs with her mere aura and shockwaves is absolutely ludicrous. It's not about overpowering and knocking them down. That's entirely fine. It's about doing it with such ease that it suggests strength difference as big as entire orders of magnitude. That's the shit that makes me raise my eyebrows. Seriously, you're suggesting she can overwhelm Twilight's shields...by letting her energy leak off of her body. Yeah, no I call bullshit on that.

 

[Js250476]

Twilights shield could briefly explode hold off a combined attack from Chrysalis, Cozy and Tirek. To me it seems like a combination of Chrysalis and Twilight getting freaked out lowered that shields potency.

 

[Jackxagon]

But it happened, didn't it? 3 times, in a span of 5 minutes. (also, it's not what I'm suggesting, it's what happened)

I couldn't take any argument out of your last reply, because it's basically "It's outlier because it's bullshit, yadda yadda yadda and because I said so" without explaining why that couldn't have happened. I would really like some counter-argument.

It is not an outlier if it happened consistently throughout the character lifespan (only this ep). It also doesn't contradict anything chrysalis (or even tirek, if we pull the "equal distribution of power" argument) being this powerful.

(reminding that this is not base form chrysalis, it's her "Ultimate" form, with ancient magic, which we only got to see in this episode)

Asking it again, why can't we accept the fact that she's that strong?

What's the gap of power between baseline 4-B and borderline High 4-B?

If anything, I call outlier / PIS for Starlight and Spike (along with rarity) not being obliterated, because of rating limitations (and plot armor).

 

[Jackxagon]

Gotta leave now, It's 02:30 AM over here, it was a great discussion. Maybe we'll continue tomorrow.

(maybe create a part 3, since this one is reaching 500 replies)

 

[Lightbuster30]

You mean aside from the fact that Lord Tirek is only at his third form? Which is at absolute best princess level? That automatically puts a limit on her since she scales to this form, and this very form was defeated by the princesses in the past and harmed by Twilight. Neither of which wouldn't even be possible is the gap were so massive. And there is nothing to suggest Chrysalis somehow got disproportionately stronger compared to her allies.

I really don't care how "consistent" it is when it breaks the powerscaling by an absurd degree. If the feat breaks the powerscaling then I do not see it as usable. At best I see it as an auxiliary feat. Bell Chrysalis was never meant to be portrayed as this insurmountable wall that can't be harmed by anyone not using EoH. Stronger by an unknown quantity? Yeah sure. But you can bet the writers weren't thinking: "Chrysalis can harm Starlight with her mere shockwaves and is thus more than thousands of times stronger." Or: "She's stronger than Twilight with her mere aura." Otherwise they wouldn't have written Twilight as able to hurt Tirek as if to say: "Look at how strong she is!" I guess Chrysalis is thousands of times stronger than him too?

I reiterate: I don't care if it's her ultimate form. That's not an argument and is not a good enough excuse for being this much stronger.

There is no low or high 4-B. Why is that being brought up?

It's an outlier for Spike because he tanked it, at worst knocked over. Starlight on the other hand got injured from a direct hit and thus it doesn't seem as ludicrous.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

I gave Chrysalis a key for her post Bewitching Bell state. Since we can't exactly agree on how strong she is, I simply put her at 4-B and noted that she did manage to contend with and defeat Starlight, though I noted that it's unclear exactly how the form compares to her post love absorption state. For her durability, I included a link to show her surviving the giant blast of rainbow magic. She didn't gain any new powers from the BB, so her increased stats were all I had to add along with a picture of her BB form. If there's anything that you all think warrants editing or more discussion for that key, we can discuss it. I just wanted us to finally get started on implementing these changes. CG still needs a profile.

 

[ThatDude343]

Speaking of outliers, I'm starting to think the fact that Tirek never got to access his fourth form is an outlier. Thus, we shouldn't use it to determine how strong Chrysalis is.

Think about it: in S4, what it took for Tirek to access his third form was just going around different locations and absorbing the energy of mass amounts of ponies. Before he even got to Shining Armor and the Royal Guard, he was already in that form. Just 1/3 of Grogar's power was able to get him to that state in S9.

What allowed him to access his base of his fourth form was absorbing the magic of the Mane 5 + Spike. If we go by the scaling, it makes absolutely no sense that he wasn't about to access his fourth form by absorbing the Pillars magic, who all have feats as impressive as the former.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

I thought we already definitively agreed that was indeed an outlier. He didn't even grow.

 

[ThatDude343]

I thought we already definitively agreed that was indeed an outlier. He didn't even grow.

Oh okay, I wasn't sure if this was already discussed seeing as it's still being used in the scaling process.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Speaking of outliers, I'm starting to think the fact that Tirek never got to access his fourth form is an outlier. Thus, we shouldn't use it to determine how strong Chrysalis is.
Think about it: in S4, what it took for Tirek to access his third form was just going around different locations and absorbing the energy of mass amounts of ponies. Before he even got to Shining Armor and the Royal Guard, he was already in that form. Just 1/3 of Grogar's power was able to get him to that state in S9.

What allowed him to access his base of his fourth form was absorbing the magic of the Mane 5 + Spike. If we go by the scaling, it makes absolutely no sense that he wasn't about to access his fourth form by absorbing the Pillars magic, who all have feats as impressive as the former.

Maybe he reached his fourth form because of the mane 6? Jim said they'd been soaking in "special magic". Maybe those theories about how Tirek was able to steal Discord's magic are true after all.