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My Little Pony FiM Revision Thread (Warning: Season 9 Spoilers)

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Princess Luna: Even raising the moon has become difficult. Are there similar troubles in Ponyville?

Princess Celestia: And finally, magical artifacts will stop working. When the sun sets on the third day, the magic in our world will be gone forever!
 
Firestorm808 said:
Princess Celestia: And finally, magical artifacts will stop working. When the sun sets on the third day, the magic in our world will be gone forever!
Click to expand...
That still doesn't prove anything except the magic of artifacts is the last to go. This is nothing but pure speculation. Nothing from this quote proves artifact magic is superior to the magic that the best that unicorns have to offer. It only proves it is the last to go.
 
And if you're tring to argue that they only partially had their magic absorbed, that doesn't change that it affected both of them, and they can normally do it effortlessly. So if the draining is so bad that raising Celestial bodies becomes difficult when they normally find it easy, then a decent amount of magic from both of them must have been taken.
 
Artifacts range from greater than Unicorns up to Alicorns as shown with Grogar's Bell.
 
Give me examples on how this is false:

Celestia and Luna > Artifacts > Unicorns.

Direct statements from the show confirm this.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Artifacts range from greater than Unicorns up to Alicorns as shown with Grogar's Bell.
Click to expand...
No, they range from less than top tier Unicorns to superior to alicorns. Case in point: Amulet of Aurora, which can summon tsunamis, something blatantly below the likes of Starswirl who is Low 4-C.

And do not try to argue that the AoA must be 4-C on it's own because it drained all magic from Equestria. That was with all other artifacts combined and with an unknown ritual that we have no clue on the details of. It's not a feat unless explicitly with the other artifacts and used under the same circumstances. On it's own, it's tier 8-B via scaling to tsunamis.
 
And those statements are either A: Proven wrong by actual feats from other artifacts. or B: Don't apply to every single artifact in Equestria.
 
It appears that we are at an impasse. It would be beneficial to get an admin/moderator's input on the matter.
 
If Celestia and Luna couldn't stop the Crystal Empire from freezing because magic, why can't the same be said for the tsunamis from the Amulet of Aurora.
 
Regardless, I'm willing to accept 2x 4-C Discord or higher if the idea of being damaged by Sombra is a joke to him, and if Sombra is equal to at least one of the sisters who are 4-C with a small part of their power put together. This would still make Tirek 8x Star level planting him in High 4-C regardless. So we've been arguing over nothing.
 
Firestorm808 said:
If Celestia and Luna couldn't stop the Crystal Empire from freezing because magic, why can't the same be said for the tsunamis from the Amulet of Aurora.
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Sorry, you'll need to go a bit more into detail on what you mean here. Didn't notice your comment when I posted my last comment.
 
I think I understand what you mean now. So to answer your question: It's because the AoA has no feats making it superior to Celestia and Luna. The storm actually has a feat of being enhanced by magic to the point of overpowering two 4-Cs, the AoA doesn't. Not even a statement comparing it to Alicorns or Starswirl or someone roughly equivalent.
 
Js250476 said:
Remember when that storm was one of the main points against them being tier 4 at all. Shudders those were the days.
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It should honestly be an outlier for the storm, not a feat for it considering storm feats can be done in groups of fodder.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
I think I understand what you mean now. So to answer your question: It's because the AoA has no feats making it superior to Celestia and Luna. The storm actually has a feat of being enhanced by magic to the point of overpowering two 4-Cs, the AoA doesn't. Not even a statement comparing it to Alicorns or Starswirl or someone roughly equivalent.
Click to expand...
That's not what's said.

Princess Luna: This far north, the weather has a will of its own, and now it will only grow stronger, enveloping everything in its path.

From the looks of it, the storm is similar in nature to the everfree.
 
Anyways, the point is that the storm actually has a feat for it while the AoA doesn't. We can't just hand every artifact a tier 4 just because of a statement from Neighsay. The individual artifacts need to show or at least have a statement that makes them that powerful.

A blanket statement like that is simply not useful, accurate, and is contradicted by feats from lesser artifacts. We need to judge by statements and feats applying to individual artifacts.
 
I'd also like to point out that the argument for them being superior based on being the last to be drained is bad as well, not only because it seriously messes with the powerscaling, but because it's not absorbing the magic all at once. Your interpretation can only work if if's all being asorbed at once. See, there'd be a point if the magic from spells, creatures, and artifacts were being drained all at once, because maybe you could argue it's absorbing powers grow stronger as it absorbs more magic, enabling it to absorb stronger magic. But that isn't whats happening. Instead, the magic is being absorbed one class of magic at a time, then moving on to the next. In addition, what Celestia said can be taken in multiple different ways. She never explained why it isn't happening all at once, although you could take it the way you do from her statement. You could also take it the way I did: That one class of magic at a time is simply how it works.

So to recap: It working the way is implied doesn't make any sense, seriously screws with the powerscaling, and is far too open to interpretation/not enough info on how it works to be a useful argument.
 
In what way would it confuse the power scaling?


Also, just realized someting when reading over the quotes again.

Chancellor Neighsay: While it's true that unicorns have lost their ability to cast spells, the most potent magic in Equestria (The Kingdom) is housed in our... artifacts. (Pony Artifacts)

Pony Artifacts:

  • Crystal Heart 4-C
  • Elements of Harmony 4-C
  • Alicorn Amulet Low 4-C
    • Easily performs the highest level unicorn spells
    • Should be comparable to Alicorn Twilight
  • EEA Medallion Low 4-C
    • Create chains and seals that presumably only a pony on Twilight's level and up can break.
  • Rings of Scorchero 4-C
    • Used to usher in eight hundred years of unrelenting heat. (Counter Celestia's control of the Sun)
 
1. No shit for the first 3. They have what we call feats (and statements for the last one)

2. Having an alicorn casually break your chains doesn't mean you scale to one. Oh, hello 4-C Tempest Shadow.

3. First off: We don't know if Celestia can't override the rings. Secondly, Celestia is 4-C for controlling the movement of the Sun, not how hot it is. That's at most a High 6-A feat.
 
And don't even think of going "Oh well she's 4-C with the bombs". No, you know what I meant by that. And those bombs shouldn't even be 4-C in the first place. All they did was petrify the princesses. No one has resistance to petrifaction in this verse. The most you can argue is that the bomb broke through Cadence's shield.....which was done because Tempest kicking it....which is an outlier for her.

And don't go: "Oh, then why didn't they use their magic to break out?" Because the crystals covered their horns. As shown multiple times, covering a spell casters horn can disrupt the magic flowing through it. Perhaps the most obvious example is Rarity literally snuffing out her out of control magic with her hoof in "Princess Twilight Sparkle".
 
Didn't Tempest Shadow break Cadence's shields with her Magic Bombs?

Unrelenting heat would mean that the Sun never sets.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Didn't Tempest Shadow break Cadence's shields with her Magic Bombs?
Unrelenting heat would mean that the Sun never sets.
Click to expand...
Addressed.

I'm pretty sure he meant increasing it's heat. If he's going to make the entire planet heat up to constantly "sweltering" levels then that would require actually heating up the sun. I'm not sure if that can be done to the entire world at once for 800 years just by having it never move.

Regardless, a statement from an arrogant villain is not accurate and the rings don't have feats suggesting they can overpower Celestia.
 
And by mess with the powerscaling I mean having food growing magic be superior to Alicorn spells since it is an innate earth pony ability. Because again: The magic from top tier Alicorn spells were being partially stolen and this would make innate Earth pony magic superior since it would be the second magic stolen because according to you: Artifacts are superior because they were the last to be stolen. Well that and an unreliable statement from Neighsay.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Equestria would literally boil if the Sun never set. Constant energy from the sun with out night would do that.
Click to expand...
Hence why I mentioned the entire planet. I assumed he meant the whole planet. Of course this still doesn't prove they can overpower Celestia because they don't have the feats for it.
 
Oh, and the other half of the planet wasn't boiling to our knowledge. Oh, and Equestria hasn't frozen over as a result of eternal night.
 
Celestia is widely and publicly known for raising and setting the sun. How would he not take that into account unless the Magic would counter hers?
 
Oh and actually increasing it's heat is still an option since Equestria is clearly just fine and not below 0 temperatures from eternal night.
 
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