Minecraft Key dividers and tier inaccuracies

[Agnaa]

@David Can you structure your posts better? 44 lines with no paragraphs is impossible to read.

 

[Idazmi]

Also 8-C comes from withstanding the heat of the nether which Skeletons can do just fine, that's not getting downgraded

That falls under heat resistance, not durability.

 

[Jinsye]

You need to be that durable to tank extreme amounts of heat without being vaporized

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not necessarily.

To that point, the Ghasts are less durable then mobs that die to lava and fire pretty fast.

 

[Jinsye]

How come we give durability ratings based on tanking heat?

 

[DMB_1]

What confuses me is that Minecraft is 8-C via surviving a heat that is capable of instantly vaporizing almost a cubic meter of water, while Undertale is 8-C via characters surviving a heat capable of vaporizing a small plastic cup of water.

 

[Jinsye]

UT's heat is significantly hotter than MC heat though (Over 9000 farenheit)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What confuses me is that Minecraft is 8-C via surviving a heat that is capable of instantly vaporizing almost a cubic meter of water, while Undertale is 8-C via characters surviving a heat capable of vaporizing a small plastic cup of water.

It's more that the plastic is also just vaporized. And the 9000 farenheit thing.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

How come we give durability ratings based on tanking heat?

Because it doesn't break in-game logic. Not that I agree with it.

Again, by your logic the Ghasts are more durable than diamond armored skeletons/zombies/whomever, which is false.

 

[Jinsye]

Then Ghasts get downgraded due to being proven to be in-verse glass cannons, simple. No need to downgrade everyone else because of the Ghast.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What?

A fully diamond armored monster can die in a normal fire made with wood.

The heat alone is not enough to scale everyone, sorry.

 

[Agnaa]

A fully diamond armored monster can die in a normal fire made with wood.

8-C forest fires

 

[Jinsye]

Maybe fictional fire/lava isn't the same as real fire/lava. Fiction and all.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Or maybe, more reasonably, we don't throw logic out of the window (since logic is the only reason heat is aplicable to AP), and we just assume nether resisdents resist heat, and other peeps weren't supposed to go there.

Seriously, you want to scale a dude that dies to fire to 8-C by not dying to het. That just isn't happening unless you can prove that monsters getting damaged by fire is an outlier and not the other way around.

 

[Jinsye]

Why not just say that minecraft's fire is hotter than the Nether's passive heat?

The Nether's heat doesn't passively burn down trees and it doesn't destroy other usually flammable materials like wool.

 

[Idazmi]

What confuses me is that Minecraft is 8-C via surviving a heat that is capable of instantly vaporizing almost a cubic meter of water, while Undertale is 8-C via characters surviving a heat capable of vaporizing a small plastic cup of water.

Undertale's profile as a whole ignores the plot important fact that monsters are literally made of magic and loose dust. That is why the Humans won the Human/Monster war with NO fatalities and why a prepubescent child can massacre them all with a kitchen knife. The Monsters should factually rate around 10-C at absolute most, regardless of their other abilities. Their "soul manipulation" is also bull: the game itself says that humans have stronger SOULs than monsters due to having a denser mass to carry it in: "Humans are unbelievably strong. It would take the SOUL of nearly every monster... ... just to equal the power of a single human SOUL."

 

[Jinsye]

>10-C Undertale

That is the worst possible downplay I've ever seen.

 

[Idazmi]

>10-C Undertale

That is the worst possible downplay I've ever seen.

It's literally the whole plot of the game.

 

[Agnaa]

It's literally the whole plot of the game.

There's a plot reason for why Humans won the Human/Monster war, and it's because Monsters take more damage from hostile intent, letting Humans overpower them, come on man.

 

[Jinsye]

Also your point about soul manipulation literally changes jack because they're punching a soul nonetheless

 

[Idazmi]

There's a plot reason for why Humans won the Human/Monster war, and it's because Monsters take more damage from hostile intent, letting Humans overpower them, come on man.

"While monsters are mostly made of magic, human beings are mostly made of water. Humans, with their physical forms, are far stronger than us." - Book in Snowdin Library

The game indeed explains this stuff in detail: it factors into every part of the game.

 

[Idazmi]

Also your point about soul manipulation literally changes jack because they're punching a soul nonetheless

It's typically used by debaters on this wiki to allow Undertale characters to ignore durability. That's an assertion that's flatly not supported in Undertale itself, where they simply aren't able to harm humans in that way.

 

[Jinsye]

That just means humans are stronger than monsters who have said feats. Not that literally every monster besides Asriel is Below Average Human

But i digress

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

While I think tier 7 and 8 aren't the most solid, ou realize undine just backhanded a spear hard enough to break a table,yes?

 

[Idazmi]

That just means humans are stronger than monsters who have said feats. Not that literally every monster besides Asriel is Below Average Human

But i digress

Said monsters are killed by a child with a kitchen knife. But yes, this isn't the topic for this discussion.

 

[Jinsye]

While I think tier 7 and 8 aren't the most solid, ou realize undine just backhanded a spear hard enough to break a table,yes?

She also casually suplexes boulders because she can

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Why not just say that minecraft's fire is hotter than the Nether's passive heat?

The Nether's heat doesn't passively burn down trees and it doesn't destroy other usually flammable materials like wool.

Because it is baseless assumption, and one that is only being argued for to keep the minecraft profiles at the tier they are at.

That just ruins your point even further dude. If the heat can't even affect wool, how the hell do monsters that die to a normal fire get 8-c from it? 8-C wool?

 

[Idazmi]

While I think tier 7 and 8 aren't the most solid, ou realize undine just backhanded a spear hard enough to break a table,yes?

Undine is a special case among monsters, as proven by both her attitude and her "Undying" form. It still doesn't justify the idea that her spears can simply bypass literally anything that's not meant to protect against Soul Manipulation.

 

[Jinsye]

It proves that MC's normal fire is superior to Nether heat which vaporizes water. Which also proves MC fire is not normal fire. So yeah, 8-C wool could make sense if the scaling lines up like that.

 

[Idazmi]

It proves that MC's normal fire is superior to Nether heat which vaporizes water. So yeah, 8-C wool could make sense if the scaling lines up like that.

No, It doesn't make any sense that a mere sheep is 8-C. You can kill it with a sword made of wood.

 

[Jinsye]

I was thinking that 9-A MC should be 8-C for a while but I'll save that until the fire debate is over

 

[Agnaa]

It proves that MC's normal fire is superior to Nether heat which vaporizes water. Which also proves MC fire is not normal fire. So yeah, 8-C wool could make sense if the scaling lines up like that.

It's not just the MC's fire, all fire would have to be superior to Nether heat... Such as fire generated by lightning, or fire generated by natural lava.

 

[Jinsye]

...So MC's fire?

 

[Agnaa]

...So MC's fire?

Whoops, I'm so used to seeing MC meaning main character, I thought you were talking about the player's own fire.

I think it's pretty silly to take "Normal fire caused by lightning is strong enough to vaporize water instantly" and "Wool is 8-C" from this information.

 

[Jinsye]

That's more on an argument of incredulity then anything else

 

[Jinsye]

I gotta sleep now

h

 

[Agnaa]

I could phrase it differently into it being an argument of outliers, inconsistency, game mechanics, resistance, etc. Or even occam's razor, for you dismissing all of these explanations with fewer assumptions in support of one with extra, strange assumptions.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You realize that the fire supposedly superior to passive water vaporization... is put out by water.

 

[Jinsye]

I lied about sleeping.

Apparently not looking at the screen makes you realize Ricsi's fire/water logic makes sense.

So I'll drop the argument for now.

On the flipside. I'm gonna bring up this blog that had a rather weak rebuttal to it. (Saikou made it so it's wanked)

I'd like an actual rebuttal for this.

 

[DMB_1]

Oh yeah, wood burns to fire, yet it doesn't just turn to ashes only by being inside of the Nether.