Minecraft: walking to the Huge steps in updates

[Mr. Bambu]

Why this one? curious
since it is a sub-company of Mojang

Is it an actual sub-company, or a company that works closely with Mojang (a la Kobold Press)? I recognize that they present themselves as "Official Minecraft Partners", but this alone is not sufficient for them to be included.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

I don't know why you loathe the notion of using FC/OC so much that you will argue so hard to avoid it when, it seems to me, most of what you want to make pages for is specifically FC/OC content.

Honesty, I'd have to take a guess it might have to do with the Tier One Ban that's been going on for a frankly absurd amount of time, the inability to add match up's, and frankly the wiki just having different policies and environments than VSBW. Keep in mind that, at least most of the time, FC/OC see's a lot less action than VSBW, and they are less restrictive in some area's but heavily more restrictive in other's, which might make operating over there simply inconvenient for some people, especially if they think they can operate over here properly. That's just what I think might be their reasons, though- There could be any number of different problems they have with that wiki that may make them adverse to using it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Honesty, I'd have to take a guess it might have to do with the Tier One Ban that's been going on for a frankly absurd amount of time, the inability to add match up's, and frankly the wiki just having different policies and environments than VSBW. Keep in mind that, at least most of the time, FC/OC see's a lot less action than VSBW, and they are less restrictive in some area's but heavily more restrictive in other's, which might make operating over there simply inconvenient for some people, especially if they think they can operate over here properly. That's just what I think might be their reasons, though- There could be any number of different problems they have with that wiki that may make them adverse to using it.

I can appreciate that but given the amount of support these threads have had, surely all supporters can just... support it on FC/OC? Unless these pages were believed to be Tier 1, anyhow.

 

[MrKerf]

You're not entirely understanding, I think.

The homebrew site I'm referencing is made under WotC's oversight. They control the content on there. It is more similar than you are presuming.

You mean Kobold Press? It's still 3rd Party, I think, that's not the same. I recall there's even a thing that if present in a book - makes it "canon". Even if made by someone else. A mark of approval, but I can't remember which. Either a specific naming, and/or a different to usual license.
Although I might be thinking about Savage Worlds...

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You mean Kobold Press? It's still 3rd Party, I think, that's not the same. I recall there's even a thing that if present in a book - makes it "canon". Even if made by someone else. A mark of approval, but I can't remember which. Either a specific naming, and/or a different to usual license.
Although I might be thinking about Savage Worlds...

Kobold Press has published official works under WotC (specifically the Tyranny of Dragons adventures), but no, I mean DMs Guild in general. The content there is overseen and managed by WotC and makes for an apt comparison to Minecraft's marketplace. At present, I can understand the works published there directly by Minecraft being... fine, if they are more than just a texture pack and maybe a map. But for tertiary properties, I'm hard against, and even moreso for random contributors.

 

[Qawsedf234]

think the books are most likely fine, at least to exist in a sense of "Minecraft scales to them, they do not scale to Minecraft". Secondary canon status is more acceptable for them.

Extremely iffy on the "DLCs" such as MegaMan, I would probably need to know more about it? I distinctly recall Mineccraft creating a vast amount of these with very little actual content, such as Mass Effect and Skyrim back in the day

I agree with this. Just skins and content mean nothing. The only things that would come from this are one way scaling of licensed material that I don't see adding much.

Especially if it's just skins or items.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Is it an actual sub-company, or a company that works closely with Mojang (a la Kobold Press)? I recognize that they present themselves as "Official Minecraft Partners", but this alone is not sufficient for them to be included.

They are in all of Officials Collaborations with other people like Sega, Disney, etc. so yeah

I agree with this. Just skins and content mean nothing. The only things that would come from this are one way scaling of licensed material that I don't see adding much.

Especially if it's just skins or items.

I mean some of them seem to have some history like the Sonic one in which Eggman hacked into the freedom fighters computer and is planning to do evil

 

[MrKerf]

Kobold Press has published official works under WotC (specifically the Tyranny of Dragons adventures), but no, I mean DMs Guild in general. The content there is overseen and managed by WotC and makes for an apt comparison to Minecraft's marketplace. At present, I can understand the works published there directly by Minecraft being... fine, if they are more than just a texture pack and maybe a map. But for tertiary properties, I'm hard against, and even moreso for random contributors.

Oh right, that one. I thought DMs Guild was a sub-thing of Drive-something shop, not dnd.

The comparison is a bit iffy. On DMs Guild they just sell space to all who cares. They don't partner with them or directly insert their works into games (I mean, not like they can -_-). This is a good place to get all related materials for DnD, but it is incomparable with what we have here now.

 

[MrKerf]

Skins and maps are null, agree. But we do have some DLCs, like this one.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not trying to make this a discussion about D&D, mind, it's just the best place of experience I can make comparisons to knowledgeably, so I hope you'll forgive this.

DMs Guild, very specifically, allows you to use official, non-SRD D&D content, that is the primary benefit of publishing there. You get taken under WotC' wing to use their stuff, official lore and whatnot, to publish your material. In return, your content is expected to more or less abide by D&D lore (Elminster cannot be given a gatling gun, for example) and WotC can remove it if they please- they have some level of control. Furthermore, your pieces may be integrated into D&D lore. I think it is a very similar situation to draw comparisons from.

If the DLC or what have you establishes new characters (or crossover characters, perhaps, more accurately?) such as that Ben 10 one seems to, I don't have any strong opposition, so long as it is published by Mojang themselves and not just featured by them.

 

[Deagonx]

Strongly agree with Bambu here.

 

[MrKerf]

I'm not trying to make this a discussion about D&D, mind, it's just the best place of experience I can make comparisons to knowledgeably, so I hope you'll forgive this...

Eh, if OP doesn't mind, I can concede for now. I am still a bit under the weather. So maybe we can decide on how to implement Mojang's DLCs, and create additional crt later (with more evidence and examples) if needed.

Although, I would like to say that I won't budge on books.
Take it or leave it, Bambu XD

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I already accepted the books smh, I never put them into contention, so long as they are scaled from the game and not vice versa.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Ok to summarize the whole thread

Animations
Animations like Narrator and Marilla are official and can be used as secondary material.

Books
Books that tell a story like Mob Squad are treated as Minecraft: Story Mode where Minecraft is canon to them but they are not canon to Minecraft or Dungeons or Legends (This can change depending on if anything is found that ties it to the true minecraft canon obviously)

Books like Minecraft Dungeons: The Rise of the Arch-Illager and Minecraft Legends: Return of the Piglins are canon to their respective games.

Guidebooks and similar like the Mobestiary and Blockopedia can be used to Main Canon

Marketplace

Marketplace will only be taken into account if it has enough of its own material, it does not count if they are only Skins and that's it, they need to be a complete combo with a small narrative even if it is, such as the Megaman Marketplace that includes several levels, a mission to defeat the plan of Sigma and various characters

The Marketplace of random people who are not directly sponsored by Mojang is not accepted, This can change if their Marketplace are on the Official Minecraft Channel many times

While Marketplaces made by people who have actively collaborated with Mojang on their crossovers and others things, can be used, these groups would be for example Cyclone who made Minions, Pixar's Lightyear & DuckTales DLCs or Game Mode One who collaborated on the creation of Minecraft's Sonic, HTTYD, PAC-MAN & Bloom

a couple of examples of Marketplaces that are allowed, although there are many more than are allowed I just won't go looking for everyone, because it will take Time;

Minecraft X MegaMan X, Ben 10, Burberry, HTTYD, Avatar, StarWars, Spongebob, Batman, lightyear, angry birds, ice Age, the mangrove restoration project, Ultimate Dragons, Sonic, Minions,Terra Swoop Force, Ducktales, We Are The Rangers, ARTEMIS: Rocket Build, Frozen Planet II, etc

​

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's a really bad interpretation of the Marketplace rulings thus far. Only Minecraft-published content can be used, providing it has stuff actually worth documenting outside of textures, skins, and a world. Tertiary companies are not permitted (such as Game Mode One, no reasoning was provided for them aside from the implicit "OFFICIAL MINECRAFT CREATOR" or whatever it was).

If Mojang itself published it, then I won't resist. Otherwise, it is fan-made content, even if it was made with explicit consent between Mojang and some other IP holder.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

That's a really bad interpretation of the Marketplace rulings thus far. Only Minecraft-published content can be used, providing it has stuff actually worth documenting outside of textures, skins, and a world. Tertiary companies are not permitted (such as Game Mode One, no reasoning was provided for them aside from the implicit "OFFICIAL MINECRAFT CREATOR" or whatever it was).

If Mojang itself published it, then I won't resist. Otherwise, it is fan-made content, even if it was made with explicit consent between Mojang and some other IP holder.

Well, all those Marketplace titles were actually taken from Mojang/Minecraft's official channel, Game Mode One was the one that made the 5 Year Celebration Marketplace so i dont think we can wouldn't call it tertiary....

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I would absolutely describe their work as tertiary, aside from those published under Mojang themselves. We talked about Kobold Press being a 1:1 situation in this exact thread.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I would absolutely describe their work as tertiary, aside from those published under Mojang themselves. We talked about Kobold Press being a 1:1 situation in this exact thread.

Well, then only the Titles that appear on the Mojang/minecraft channel?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I dunno if YouTube is the best measuring stick, but it is a start.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I dunno if YouTube is the best measuring stick, but it is a start.

I mean, it's the official Minecraft channel where they send all the information and everything, I personally think that's a reliable source

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Just as an observation, I think certain Marketplace collabs should be fine. I haven't looked into them all that much, but there seem to be minigames featuring Sonic the Hedgehog, Ben 10, Pac-Man, and Mega Man characters. These are all official collaborations, and assuming they have feats and some semblance of a narrative, they can likely be allowed.

The Sonic collab (the only one i am really knowledgeable about) has it's own little story mode and some challenges. Has feats (9-A Super Sonic, anyone?), has some semblance of a story, and is officially licensed by SEGA/Mojang. Seems fine to me

This would only apply to the official collabs done by Mojang themselves though

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Just as an observation, I think certain Marketplace collabs should be fine. I haven't looked into them all that much, but there seem to be minigames featuring Sonic the Hedgehog, Ben 10, Pac-Man, and Mega Man characters. These are all official collaborations, and assuming they have feats and some semblance of a narrative, they can likely be allowed.

The Sonic collab (the only one i am really knowledgeable about) has it's own little story mode and some challenges. Has feats (9-A Super Sonic, anyone?), has some semblance of a story, and is officially licensed by SEGA/Mojang. Seems fine to me

This would only apply to the official collabs done by Mojang themselves though

I guess that including things like
the mangrove restoration project, right? as it has an narrative story and was something intentionally done, so anything made for a events and Celebration should be OK

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just as an observation, I think certain Marketplace collabs should be fine. I haven't looked into them all that much, but there seem to be minigames featuring Sonic the Hedgehog, Ben 10, Pac-Man, and Mega Man characters. These are all official collaborations, and assuming they have feats and some semblance of a narrative, they can likely be allowed.

The Sonic collab (the only one i am really knowledgeable about) has it's own little story mode and some challenges. Has feats (9-A Super Sonic, anyone?), has some semblance of a story, and is officially licensed by SEGA/Mojang. Seems fine to me

This would only apply to the official collabs done by Mojang themselves though

As said already, any content published by Minecraft themselves (not another property) is acceptable. Since these are all theoretically published by Minecraft, there is no issue. If another company made a collaboration, then I am against it.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Book stuff is fine.

As said already, any content published by Minecraft themselves (not another property) is acceptable. Since these are all theoretically published by Minecraft, there is no issue. If another company made a collaboration, then I am against it.

I agree with this.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Ok let me see if I can make a Description for the Verse page to help users understand the status of these DLCs.

"It was discussed here(insert thread) that Marketplaces can get profiles as long as they follow the guidelines.

This is due although the Marketplaces are published on the official Mojang page under the Minecraft Partner License, it was decided to only use the Marketplaces that are published on Official channels such as Minecraft and Minecraft Education, this to avoid any attempt to create profile within the Wiki with suspiciously high ratings.

Marketplaces like Killing Aura, Dream Stream, etc. Not are allowed because they not are creations where Mojang was directly involved.

Marketplaces like MegaMan X, Sonic the Hedgehog, How to Train your Dragon, etc. It's allowed because they are direct collaborations from Sega, Capcom, DreamWorks, Etc. and Mojang.

Marketplaces like Monster Attack: Nian, Spellrune, the Mangrove restoration project, Artemis: Rocket Build, etc. They are allowed since they are specific creations for Mojang celebrations of New Years events or Education that are featured in videos within Official Minecraft channels."

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That seems needlessly wordy and suspiciously naming of various instances?

"Marketplace creations are allowed if they are published by Mojang directly, rather than side companies such as Game Mode One". So, for example, Spellrune isn't, because it is published by a side company- even though that side company has worked directly with Mojang in the past, it isn't an official Minecraft property.

We've explained this a lot, I hope you're not trying to wiggle around the rules?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

That seems needlessly wordy and suspiciously naming of various instances?

"Marketplace creations are allowed if they are published by Mojang directly, rather than side companies such as Game Mode One". So, for example, Spellrune isn't, because it is published by a side company- even though that side company has worked directly with Mojang in the past, it isn't an official Minecraft property.

We've explained this a lot, I hope you're not trying to wiggle around the rules?

Well, I'm just trying to be explanatory and leave no misinterpretation, man, although this would also confuse people because things like Minions Marketplaces are as much a work of Mojang as CYCLONE being, on the CYCLONE page within Marketplace instead of Mojang's, I think making it clear that individual Marketplaces that are not in any Minecraft Youtube channel with animations and all of that should be a great indicator that it's ok otherwise that description causes confusion

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You, specifically, proposed the Minecraft YouTube channel as a measuring stick. I don't understand why you're trying to slide in more examples now.

If it isn't published by Mojang, and it isn't officially by them (as in, on their channel presented as their product, as proposed by you), it isn't allowed. So yeah, things that do not meet our standards, just can't have pages- we wouldn't try to expand our standards to allow them for no reason other than allowing them. Products by CYCLONE wouldn't be allowed unless it were made under Mojang. If CYCLONE has a collaboration with Minions, devoid of Mojang's own brand, then it isn't allowed, sorry guy.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

You, specifically, proposed the Minecraft YouTube channel as a measuring stick. I don't understand why you're trying to slide in more examples now.

If it isn't published by Mojang, and it isn't officially by them (as in, on their channel presented as their product, as proposed by you), it isn't allowed. So yeah, things that do not meet our standards, just can't have pages- we wouldn't try to expand our standards to allow them for no reason other than allowing them. Products by CYCLONE wouldn't be allowed unless it were made under Mojang. If CYCLONE has a collaboration with Minions, devoid of Mojang's own brand, then it isn't allowed, sorry guy.

I'm just clearing things up, don't get me wrong, I just want it to be flawless, sorry if I described it wrong.

I want this to be organized using what would be the most reliable source of information possible, I don't want it to become a mess like SCP

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's fair, I suppose. I apologize for being presumptuous, I'm sure people can understand my skepticism given that we're on VSBW.

I would say just... trim down the verbiage to solely, and only, include Mojang-run channels. Even if the teams have been hired by Mojang in the past and had their works on the channels, this would not make all of their works acceptable. So Spellrune, again, would be an unacceptable instance, but the Ben 10 crossover would be fine.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Ok

 

[Mariogoods]

That seems needlessly wordy and suspiciously naming of various instances?

"Marketplace creations are allowed if they are published by Mojang directly, rather than side companies such as Game Mode One". So, for example, Spellrune isn't, because it is published by a side company- even though that side company has worked directly with Mojang in the past, it isn't an official Minecraft property.

We've explained this a lot, I hope you're not trying to wiggle around the rules?

I feel that being detailed is enough since the detailed guideline would help new user to grasp the guideline without much confusion.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I feel that being detailed is enough since the detailed guideline would help new user to grasp the guideline without much confusion.

That detailed description specifically allows for profiles that would not be accepted based on the discussions contained in this thread.

 

[Elizhaa]

The book proposals seem fine; On the other things, I largely agree with Mr. Bambu's points

 

[MrKerf]

"It was discussed here (insert thread) that Marketplace creations are allowed, as long as they are published by Minecraft directly, or by Mojang sub-companies. In the latter case it should be proven to be an actual sub-company, and not just a partnersip."

?
I've added the later part for clarity of what is actually allowed beyond Mojang's creations.
For now that should do.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I fear "Mojang Sub-Companies" being used to allow properties that just... straight-up aren't Mojang, such as Game Mode One. What sub-companies do you aim to permit there?

 

[MrKerf]

I fear "Mojang Sub-Companies" being used to allow properties that just... straight-up aren't Mojang, such as Game Mode One. What sub-companies do you aim to permit there?

I have yet to find those. However, since you specifically allowed them, I felt the need to include it. It still wouldn't allow Game Mode One, since there are no proof of it to be directly related to Mojang.
And anyway I worded it in such a way to require a CRT in order to prove something like that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't believe I ever specifically allowed sub-companies, I pointed out that only content published by Mojang proper should be permitted.

 

[MrKerf]

I don't believe I ever specifically allowed sub-companies, I pointed out that only content published by Mojang proper should be permitted.

Is it an actual sub-company, or a company that works closely with Mojang (a la Kobold Press)? I recognize that they present themselves as "Official Minecraft Partners", but this alone is not sufficient for them to be included.

^ I thought you implied that if its an actual sub-company - it is allowed.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Looking again, even the official Sonic collab was done by Game Mode One. Seems like they also did the Avatar, Pac-Man, and How To Train Your Dragon collabs.

Are we only talking about their original content, or would this also disqualify the official collabs like Sonic and Pac-Man?