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No I understand perfectly, and I repeat that the kind of Class M feat the legs perform is not quite comparable to the kind of attack Big Boss powers through
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Metal Gear Solid Massive CRT. "Kept you waiting, uh?"
- Thread starter Twellas
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It literally is.
The legs are capable of casually outputting Class M levels of tons of force, the legs are strong enough to propel hundreds of tons at high speeds, they do this by simply jumping. Ergo, the legs themselves have Class M strength.
Big Boss can catch a stomp trying to actively crush him near instantly and can overpower it via benchpress, a blatant example of lifting prowess.
This would scale ZEKE's leg strength to Big Boss directly, he's stronger then the legs. Your example of a human athlete doesnt work, this is a robot, the leg works the same either way, the mechanics that allow it to jump are now being used to try and stomp out Big Boss, and he overpowers it and almost knocks the mecha on his ass. As said, this is no different mechanically then catching something that can output Class M levels of force or a hydraulic press, because it literally is.
The legs are capable of casually outputting Class M levels of tons of force, the legs are strong enough to propel hundreds of tons at high speeds, they do this by simply jumping. Ergo, the legs themselves have Class M strength.
Big Boss can catch a stomp trying to actively crush him near instantly and can overpower it via benchpress, a blatant example of lifting prowess.
This would scale ZEKE's leg strength to Big Boss directly, he's stronger then the legs. Your example of a human athlete doesnt work, this is a robot, the leg works the same either way, the mechanics that allow it to jump are now being used to try and stomp out Big Boss, and he overpowers it and almost knocks the mecha on his ass. As said, this is no different mechanically then catching something that can output Class M levels of force or a hydraulic press, because it literally is.
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- #643
Preeetty sure a leg is more than merely 10% of the weight, especially when ZEKE's body is mostly legs, 200 tons is a more appropriate estimate, even low-endish tbh, considering that ZEKE was actively pushing down and trying to squash BB
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In fact no they don't, it would use a different posture to do those different movements, which would imply less than 50% of the strength used to jump would punch down on Snake, nevermind that, considering the shape of those legs, if it pushed down on Snake with all of its strength it would fall backwards, so obviously even a serious stomp would not have all of that strength.
I mean assuming it's 500 tons like REX, I'd say there's no way the legs are 200 each, even assuming it's heavier, which, fair enough, I wouldn't push it past 100 each, though 30-45 was too low.
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I mean assuming it's 500 tons like REX, I'd say there's no way the legs are 200 each, even assuming it's heavier, which, fair enough, I wouldn't push it past 100 each, though 30-45 was too low.
(edited)
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- #645
... no, complete headcanon, why the **** would they design ZEKE with 2 sets of different pistons for jumps and for stomps? That makes no sense
Uh?
100 tons is more than enough to get Class M considering FMA and timeframe, since BB halts the foot in around 2 frames
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- #646
It's also worth noting that BB immediately throws ZEKE the **** away after halting the foot, if this isn't "overpowering", then I don't know what is
XSOULOFCINDERX
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OK, so now that I saw said "Feet" of Strength, all I have to say is God Damn this man can lift.
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I edited my post, pistons was a lapse, but it absolutely would lose its balance if it pushed down on Snake with all its strength, its center of balance is already shifted a bit backwards, and even as it is when Snake pushes it up it stumbles backwards. Either way, one Class M feat or two doesn't really matter that much.
Also considering that Snake has to snap in place and all, of course the animation is limited, there literally isn't one in fact, he just shifts from one pose to the other, there's no way that isn't a graphical limitation.
Also considering that Snake has to snap in place and all, of course the animation is limited, there literally isn't one in fact, he just shifts from one pose to the other, there's no way that isn't a graphical limitation.
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>n fact no they don't, it would use a different posture to do those different movements, which would imply less than 50% of the strength used to jump would punch down on Snake, nevermind that, considering the shape of those legs, if it pushed down on Snake with all of its strength it would fall backwards, so obviously even a serious stomp would not have all of that strength.
You're right, it isn't, it should be stronger then the jump. The force from a quick jump to something like a leg press is completely different, the latter takes more strength, and that's what Big Boss overpowered completely, it isnt like ZEKE did a stomp and that was it, it tried to crush Big Boss and put force into it even after it was halted, hence the hydraulic press comparison.
>It would fall backwards.
Uh, no it wouldn't? The hell are you getting this idea from?
You're right, it isn't, it should be stronger then the jump. The force from a quick jump to something like a leg press is completely different, the latter takes more strength, and that's what Big Boss overpowered completely, it isnt like ZEKE did a stomp and that was it, it tried to crush Big Boss and put force into it even after it was halted, hence the hydraulic press comparison.
>It would fall backwards.
Uh, no it wouldn't? The hell are you getting this idea from?
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>Either way, one Class M feat or two doesn't really matter that much.
Bam, Peace Walker, that's 3. Especially when it and ZEKE have the same legs.
>there's no way that isn't a graphical limitation.
Peace Walker HD exists.
Bam, Peace Walker, that's 3. Especially when it and ZEKE have the same legs.
>there's no way that isn't a graphical limitation.
Peace Walker HD exists.
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Same legs, same feat, nevermind that it's all still questionable as is
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It isn't questionable. It happens, the literally only argument is "it's a outlier", it being an outlier doesnt change the fact the feat itself happened.
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It actually IS animated, it's just janky, as should be expected from a PSP game, the animation of ZEKE stomping, Snake pressing and then pushing away are all fine, the only problem is the position, which is a non-issue really
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The position isnt even a issue, that's only a issue if Big Boss is at the edge of the hitbox. If he's more centered and closer to the hitbox, there isnt any snapping. Edge of hitbox or not, the parts that matter happen the same exact way.
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The animation is stiff to account for the possibility of the position snapping, of course it's not gonna happen 100% of the time, but it's that way to account for it,it would look a lot weirder if it was fluid, nevermind that Peace Walker's budget is a fair bit lower than other MGS games, so the animations are very rudimental, especially seldom-seen ones like this, so obviously this one isn't reliable for the calculation itself.
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>The animation is stiff to account for the possibility of the position snapping, of course it's not gonna happen 100% of the time, but it's that way to account for it,it would look a lot weirder if it was fluid, nevermind that Peace Walker's budget is a fair bit lower than other MGS games, so the animations are very rudimental, especially seldom-seen ones like this, so obviously this one isn't reliable for the calculation itself.
Uh, no? In what world do you come to that conclusion. Ignoring the fact Peace Walker HD exists and it's far more fluid at a nice 60fps with less jank and pixely models and higher resolution and the like.
The only actual issue here is "oh if Big Boss goes to stop it but he's at the edge of the hit box, he'll snap to the center so the animation can play out properly".
If he isnt at the edge, the animation plays out the same way.
You're literally saying that because the game makes an effort to try and have the animation play out properly, it cant be used, when in a normal situation this would be PROOF the feat happens because the game actively forces the animation to play a certain way.
> so the animations are very rudimental, especially seldom-seen ones like this,
So you're resorting to saying "Peace Walker doesnt have one of the biggest budgets in video game history so that means we cant take blatant animations that are just fine and use them because its budget is only 40,000,000USD, not $80 million like MGSV" as why the animations dont count now?
Hell, I guess we may as well throw out every single game feat on the wiki that isnt done by a modern day game.
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- #657
There's literally nothing wrong with the animation beside the snapping, at this point you're just fishing for reasons for this to not be valid
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Peace Walker HD is a remaster dude, it doesn't change the animations at all, in fact it changes almost nothing about the game outside of what you've mentioned. And no, you clearly don't know what you are talking about, because a model making a movement as it shifts to the side is very noticeable by a casual player and something that programmers usually try to avoid. So this adjustment what was clearly made for the sake of the game looking less awkward, if it was more scripted it wouldn't be this simple, and yes, there is something wrong with the animation, as in there isn't a ******* animation, it's two frames of animation, that stay like that for over a half second.
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>Peace Walker HD is a remaster dude, it doesn't change the animations at all, in fact it changes almost nothing about the game outside of what you've mentioned.
Yes, a remaster that uses better FPS, textures, resolution and much more. Making scaling and visibility and well as timeframes of certain feats far more concrete and accurate.
>And no, you clearly don't know what you are talking about, because a model making a movement as it shifts to the side is very noticeable by a casual player and something that programmers usually try to avoid.
And yet they didnt here (also swsh says hi), they made it so Big Boss snaps to the center of it instead of having the action play out when he's like only half under it or barely under it. I wonder what's worse? Having Big Boss snap into position which is commonly used in games even today, or have Big Boss not snap into position and then do an animation of him halting and lifting it while barely under it if at all. Think about this for a second. snapping things into place so they can carry out their animation and roles is a super common thing used in basically every single game ever that uses 3D models. Like, do you want examples of games using snapping of rigs and models to a certain location so they're in place to perform their roles?
> as in there isn't a ******* animation, it's two frames of animation.
There is an animation, there's a clear cut animation of Big Boss halting the thing, the thing itself halting happens in two frames (idk why i typed feat), but that's consistent with the actual much longer animation. You're confusing it being halted as a full animation, when its actually just apart of a much longer animation.
Yes, a remaster that uses better FPS, textures, resolution and much more. Making scaling and visibility and well as timeframes of certain feats far more concrete and accurate.
>And no, you clearly don't know what you are talking about, because a model making a movement as it shifts to the side is very noticeable by a casual player and something that programmers usually try to avoid.
And yet they didnt here (also swsh says hi), they made it so Big Boss snaps to the center of it instead of having the action play out when he's like only half under it or barely under it. I wonder what's worse? Having Big Boss snap into position which is commonly used in games even today, or have Big Boss not snap into position and then do an animation of him halting and lifting it while barely under it if at all. Think about this for a second. snapping things into place so they can carry out their animation and roles is a super common thing used in basically every single game ever that uses 3D models. Like, do you want examples of games using snapping of rigs and models to a certain location so they're in place to perform their roles?
> as in there isn't a ******* animation, it's two frames of animation.
There is an animation, there's a clear cut animation of Big Boss halting the thing, the thing itself halting happens in two frames (idk why i typed feat), but that's consistent with the actual much longer animation. You're confusing it being halted as a full animation, when its actually just apart of a much longer animation.
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You are literally not even making an argument here, what is your point? In what possible way could this ridiculously tiny thing (that only happens in this video, I'm 100% sure that i can find a version of Snake doing this without the snapping) make the feat non-valid? Do tell
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XSOULOFCINDERX
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Are we really arguing over a gameplay mechanic from an old ass PSP Game?
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It's not even a mechanic. It's basic game design 101. Snap the models into place if they're not in the proper place to perform their roles as actors.
This doesn't even effect any calc either, the things that are actually relevant happen the exact same way everytime.
This doesn't even effect any calc either, the things that are actually relevant happen the exact same way everytime.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I know, Mechanic was the first word to come to mind.
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Hell, if there wasnt any snapping, we'd get things like Big Boss doing it with one hand.
Not that it matters, no matter how you slice it. He stops it in a fraction of a second, this fact is standalone from the discrepancies in play here. And if you don't want to use M=FA, ZEKE's legs have Class M strength of their own and basic scaling puts Big Boss>ZEKE's legs. His position wont change this, not that his position matters as it'll always be in the exact same place every time,
Not that it matters, no matter how you slice it. He stops it in a fraction of a second, this fact is standalone from the discrepancies in play here. And if you don't want to use M=FA, ZEKE's legs have Class M strength of their own and basic scaling puts Big Boss>ZEKE's legs. His position wont change this, not that his position matters as it'll always be in the exact same place every time,
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You haven't estabilished anything yet, I'm being quieter because my main argument is still the same and I don't like repeating myself.
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My main argument being that it's an outlier, same as before.
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I mean, no actual valid argument has been brough forward, the only argument, that being "they are vastly above a plethora of lower feats" is invalidated by the fact that nobody has been able to bring up a single valid feat of a character fully exherting himself that is below Class M, Armor reached the point of mentioning goddamn gun recoil as a counter ffs. Bring up an actual argument and then we'll talk, because as of now, the opposition is "that's an outlier" with nothing else backing it up
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- #673
"it's an outlier" is not an argument, back it up with actual valid reasoning, not the stuff I've debunked earlier, and then we'll acknowledge it as a valid point
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You know my reasoning, and you have not debunked it. The feats are too few and too questionable, and go against the typical standard of the series. As this is a matter of consistency, and therefore subjective by nature, it cannot be debunked.
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Y'know it's kinda funny when you double post cause there's two big bosses taking a smoke in perfect synchronization
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It's also worth mentioning I remember hearing about someone working on a revision for LS, idk if that's still a thing.
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Im still in agreement towards it being an outlier as well
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yoo, more evidence towards TMOF being stronger than Volgin? niiiiice
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You've completely failed to prove what this "typical standard of the series" even is, as I've said, your "standard of the series" is a mental image until you manage to back it up with actual feats, which you are yet to do. The point about them being "too few" is a non-argument, as they are not too few at all, they would be if there were plenty of lower feats, but there aren't
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