Metal Gear Solid Massive CRT. "Kept you waiting, uh?"

[Twellas]

Jeez, Batman's 8-C? Thought he was 9-A

Post Flashpoint Bats is 8-C, Post-Crisis is 9-A

 

[Chariot190]

>Gas tanks do have 8-B levels of chemical energy that becomes thermal energy when burned or ignited, but it doesn't generate much force. Though, when the metal gets super heated, it can be much less hollow to the point where it's easier shatter with much less force than normal.

I hope you're not arguing that a tank going from fine to shattered into a billion pieces doesn't count and isnt quantifiable.
Rather, if what you say is true, do you have an example of a tank irl being effectively going poof in a instant or shattering into tens of thousands of fragments?

 

[Twellas]

This is the feat we are talking about, Venom being at the very center of an M1 getting completely fragged

 

[Chariot190]

This is the feat we are talking about, Venom being at the very center of an M1 getting completely fragged

I'm also talking about TMOF feat too, that one even happens in a cutscene, but that too yeah.
Gray Fox has a similar feat as well, which is canon and is scripted.

Also looking into Port Ops right now and Shagohad scaling (The Shagohad has 8-C KE and,maybe some 8-C physical feats? Hard to tell without calcing but maybe).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

You mean something like this?

 

[Chariot190]

You mean something like this?

Is that of a 60 ton tank?

 

[Armorchompy]

You mean something like this?

Jesus ******* Christ

I don't have anything to say calc-wise just holy shit

 

[Chariot190]

Also back up, you do realize you're effectively arguing that Venom took 8-B levels of chemical and thermal energy point blank to the face if you're trying to say that was why the tank v.fragged, when he was in it. Surface area be damned, it wont change much of anything.
Not withstanding Venom has like 100 pieces of metal lodged throughout his body. TMOF one doesn't even matter here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Another thing, is chemical energy/thermal energy also doesn't damage targets the same way typical explosions do. You also need to take thermal equilibrium and radiation wattage into account. Basically, surviving giant fireballs of heat are only impressive if the body is large and emissive enough to eat the thermal energy. That and I don't need to repeat Heat Vs Force debates.

 

[Chariot190]

Except you're not repeating heat vs force debates. You're saying "this tank went from fine to a thousand pieces in an instant, this absolutely had nothing to do with force and the energy of it can't be applied at all".
And you're right, they don't damage targets the same way explosions do, but you're acting like they don't at all, which isn't true at all.
Giant fireballs of heat? That isn't what's actually being discussed, what's being discussed is a military grade state of the art tank going from fine to shattered in a instant, you want to attribute it to heat and the like making it brittle, but honestly, I don't think that's actually how it works in regards to tanks, they use materials to prevent shit like this, it isnt perfect, nothing is, but arguing that the heat from gasoline made the tank so completely and utterly brittle that its entire mass shattered like glass and thus because of that, it isn't quantifiable at all in regards to standard basic fragmentation calcs is dishonest and oversimplifying it.

If you want, you can get a calc member to take a look at it and calculate all the required components of the feat to gather an accurate value for the fragmentation and feat itself, but we're not going to discard it based on heat maybe being involved as if that invalidates the whole feat.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I believe it was @Antoniofer who made mentions of how gas explosions and thus tanks being destroyed actually work on another thread.

 

[Chariot190]

And just to clarify, this is for tanks being completely shattered into so many tiny pieces the fact there was even a tank to begin with is impossible to tell? Opposed to something like, just a burnt and broken tank or something?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

And just to clarify, this is for tanks being completely shattered into so many tiny pieces the fact there was even a tank to begin with is impossible to tell? Opposed to something like, just a burnt and broken tank or something?

That's a pretty noticeable Difference.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Tbh, I wouldn't mind them dropping below 8-B but Tier 9 is definitely not it either.

 

[Chariot190]

8-B is seemingly out of the question, unfortunately. If that's wrong then it's wrong, no qualms in regards to that.
There's seemingly a chunk of 8-C shit though and scaling.

As said earlier, the Shagohad's KE can hit 8-C (152 ton, 480kmph with boosting). Seemingly has some ok feats too in regards to ripping through giant walls of concrete and steel but those need some calcs, though his KE is guaranteed 8-C based on canon info we're given.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I dont recall any character being rammed by Shagohad tho

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hell iirc Snake was only able to destroy it by exploiting a hole in its armor

 

[Armorchompy]

Not necessarily a hole, just a weak spot, and I don't recall it ever tackling anyone. But outside of that, there's enough for 8-C to make sense imo. That tank's explosion is clearly not what would happen if the gas tank exploded, but even if that was the case, Venom tanked most of it.

Though, we should still just wait for a calc

 

[WeeklyBattles]

His durability wouldn scale fully to it though, youd have to apply surface area to it which would lower the rsult drastically

 

[Armorchompy]

Maybe, maybe not, this is why we need a calc.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Its not really a question, the explosion did not originate from inside of Venom so it would need to take surface area into accout

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Weekly makes the most sense

 

[Twellas]

I dont recall any character being rammed by Shagohad tho

Snake can tank getting rammed during the bossfight, Volgin scales above Shago's durability via casually punching a hole through its armor (yeah, yadda yadda surface area, but still)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Snake can tank getting rammed during the bossfight

Scans? Been a while since i played 3

 

[Twellas]

And even by knowing absolutely nothing about calculations, I can safely say that Venom scales to most if not all of the explosion, he's at the very centre

 

[Armorchompy]

Y'know it's kinda hard to tell how close he is, where is the mine, under the tank? I assume he's in it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And even by knowing absolutely nothing about calculations, I can safely say that Venom scales to most if not all of the explosion, he's at the very centre

Being at the center does not make you scale fully to an explosion, that rule was changed a while back. Basically unless the explosion happens physically inside of you you cannot scale to the entire yield of an explosion

 

[Twellas]

Scans? Been a while since i played 3

Ok, Snake can get rammed, but not with the boosters, so no.

Being at the center does not make you scale fully to an explosion, that rule was changed a while back. Basically unless the explosion happens physically inside of you you cannot scale to the entire yield of an explosion

That... doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever, it still means that he scales to most of it, right?

Y'know it's kinda hard to tell how close he is, where is the mine, under the tank? I assume he's in it

It's not a mine, it's an unknown plastic explosive. Yes, Venom is inside the tank as it explodes, and we see from the few frames before he gets engulfed in flames that he's at the very centre of the explosion

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ah okay, that would still be a solidly 9-A feat all things considered

Surface area would have to be applied which would lower the result that he actually scaled to by a decent bit unfortunately, using surface area means you have to divide the size of the person by the total size of the explosion and divide the result by the difference in size. This would almost definitely knock the feat down to 9-A unless the result is in the high 8-C range and even then its entirely possible seeing as there have been 8-B explosions that yielded 9-A dura for people surviving them

 

[Twellas]

According to a calc I found around, violent fragmentation of an M1 Abrams is about 1.07 tons, solidly 8-C, but said calc doesn't specify the model's weight, so it could have used a low end weight, either way, it's best if this calc is redone as a whole.
Let's also not forget Solid's P bombs, which are between 0,67 tons as an absolute low-end and 28 tons as an high-end.
Mantis' TK is also 8-C via the Sahel feat, and Snake can tank Telekinetic blasts from him.

Me and Chariot are still looking into things as it is

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I wouldnt put too much faith in the sahel feat, I showed to some calc members and gave the context you guys used and they're really iffy on it

 

[Twellas]

You're gonna have to tell that to Chariot, he's the one who came up with the feat and id the calc, he said that even with the lowest reasonable speed for the helicopter the result would still be 8-C, but that's not something i can really talk about, he's the "calc one" out of the two, you can debate it when he comes on

 

[Armorchompy]

Y'know, I was thinking, the Cocoon feat may not be 100% right, as the calc assumes that when Cocoon attempts to squash BB, all of the weight is coming down on him, but of course the tank's wheels still stay on the ground, so it's hard to tell just how much actually slammed down on him. Of course at the very worst Snake can lift the whole thing in that feat, since when he throws it back up even the wheels shake, but the latter half of the calc might be incorrect.

 

[Twellas]

Y'know, I was thinking, the Cocoon feat may not be 100% right, as the calc assumes that when Cocoon attempts to squash BB, all of the weight is coming down on him, but of course the tank's wheels still stay on the ground, so it's hard to tell just how much actually slammed down on him. Of course at the very worst Snake can lift the whole thing in that feat, since when he throws it back up even the wheels shake, but the latter half of the calc might be incorrect.

The wheels would account for what, 5% of the total weight? Especially when Cocoon's upper body is entirely located upon the platform that BB halted

 

[Twellas]

Everything BUT the wheels was slammed onto BB, and the wheels are barely noteworthy, there's also the fact that you mentined, BB just lifts the whole thing anyway right after

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, we still don't know if part of the mass of the center was still being held up by the sides, even with the machine purposefully intending to crush BB we don't know if 100% of the center's weight came down on him. Of course, the lifting thing is still Class M, just a fair bit lower into it.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's nothing too noteworthy, mind you. Do you have a video that shows the ZEKE version of it, or any stats on ZEKE, especially weight?

 

[Chariot190]

Not necessarily a hole, just a weak spot,

We talking about the Shagohad? The Shagohad didnt have a hole as a weak spot, it did indeed have a weak spot in the treads though. But it doesnt effect much when Volgin can casually punch foot wide holes into it with a single punch.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Weve already been over why volgin punching a hole in it wouldnt fully scale to its durability

 

[Chariot190]

Not quite, as said, the Shagohad itself likely has 8-C physical feats of its own, let alone KE.

If it can perform an 8-C feat with only a small fraction of its body without a single scratch, then proceed to casually get a solid foot wide, if not larger, hole smashed into it, Surface area be damned there.
Hell, if you really wanted, you could calculate how durable the armor is itself and how much energy it would take to punch a hole through it.