MGS4 Raiden blocked Outer Heaven feat rescaling

[NON-STOPPING_GAMER2009]

Drop em in the MGS discussion thread

Alright, I will, sometime when I get some trivia changes on their profiles. Some were counted as invalid but I have validated them again.
Don't worry, it's just Mountain level stuff. Not country level.
I mean, city level is a bit underwhelming for them, don't you think? Seen far weaker verses hit 7-A easily.
Ofc, I have evidence to back them up, I know what I'm doing.

 

[Unknownnah]

I mean, city level is a bit underwhelming for them, don't you think?

How is packing more power than the tsar bomba underwhelming?

 

[NON-STOPPING_GAMER2009]

How is packing more power than the tsar bomba underwhelming?

They do pack more than the Tsar Bomba but thing is, they pack a lot more than the Tsar Bomba than we think they do. Also, I have issues with Mistral and Armstrong being on the same tier.
Ofc it's not underwhelming, but if you compare it to other scalings seen in previous titles than Rising, it's not that impressive.
Until my calcs are evaluated again, they can also be re-done if staff finds them wrong. And I'm open to debate their consistency, since 7-A doesn't seem that unrealistic for Metal Gear, considering Peace Walker is stated to far outscale the Tsar Bomba already. (Which is 7-B+ already) and Rising is 44 years more advanced.
Ofc that doesn't say shit, but my calculations do (since they are reliant on some others here), and I use some other calcs for speed (travel, attack speed, reaction speed) respectively.

 

[Chariot190]

Also, I have issues with Mistral and Armstrong being on the same tier.

Being the same tier doesn't mean the same strength. 9-B for example is a gap of 50000x. Armstrong would rip Mistral apart and kill her in a single punch.

The tiers just benchmarks and categories.

 

[NON-STOPPING_GAMER2009]

Being the same tier doesn't mean the same strength. 9-B for example is a gap of 50000x. Armstrong would rip Mistral apart and kill her in a single punch.

The tiers just benchmarks and categories.

I agree with you, Mistral gets shit on by Armstrong.
But both scale from the 67 megaton feat (which I personally recalculated at around 100 megatons), how is that supposed to be a godstomp for Senator?
To "godstomp" 67 megatons you need to be at least x2 and I'm massively lowballing here. Let's assume a 10-B dude does that mean Mike Tyson will punch him so hard he will die because he's 9-C? Or can a 10-B dude can destroy a 10-B dude just as bad?
But in a matchup against let's say some other character and the scaling is different (let's say this character is 7-A if you consider Armstrong 7-B+ or 6-C since I scale him High 7-A), does that mean Mistral will compare to this character equally as let's say Armstrong did if put in a VS thread because the stats there are the same?
Mistral is already on the higher end of the city level tier anyway.

 

[NON-STOPPING_GAMER2009]

Excelsus isn't actually a Metal Gear model, it just has the name for Brand Recognition and Marketing purposes as explained in the Codec calls.

EXCELSUS is a Metal Gear, the only difference being that it doesn't carry nukes. It's durability obviously outscales.

 

[Chariot190]

I agree with you, Mistral gets shit on by Armstrong.
But both scale from the 67 megaton feat (which I personally recalculated at around 100 megatons), how is that supposed to be a godstomp for Senator?
To "godstomp" 67 megatons you need to be at least x2 and I'm massively lowballing here. Let's assume a 10-B dude does that mean Mike Tyson will punch him so hard he will die because he's 9-C? Or can a 10-B dude can destroy a 10-B dude just as bad?

They can both scale off the same feat, that feat acts as a benchmark for the scaling. But that doesn't change the fact he scales higher.

It's like, take DBZ for example, both end of Namek saga Vegeta and Final Form Frieza, are both scaling off Frieza blowing up planet vegeta, that value is the same. But that doesn't mean they're the same strength, we know Frieza can one shot Vegeta, straight up kill him, literally did.

Armstrong mutilates Mistral. They might both be scaling off the same feat, but yeah, obviously, there needs to be a feat to get them where they are to begin with, doesn't mean there isn't a gap.

Ignoring Mike Tyson could kill a 10-A in one hit to the head, and ignoring how a 10-B can kill a 10-B pretty easily, that's what upscaling is for. It's why the "at least" is there.

But in a matchup against let's say some other character and the scaling is different (let's say this character is 7-A if you consider Armstrong 7-B+ or 6-C since I scale him High 7-A), does that mean Mistral will compare to this character equally as let's say Armstrong did if put in a VS thread because the stats there are the same?

No, Mistral would be downscaling the value, while Armstrong is like two one-shots above the value.

If for example, someone makes a match of Dark Blue Moon (7 tons) vs an 8 ton dude, they'd be pretty even. But if someone made Peak Star Platinum vs an 8 ton dude, that 8 ton dude is omegafucked. Even though Plat is scaling off the same feat, he literally one shots dudes on that scale, pulverizing them, even though the feat used as the foundation is the same, that doesn't mean we don't factor in the nuances of things such as Plat dusting dudes on that level.

Profiles can have nuance, dudes of the same tier can be stronger than each other by a lot, dudes can be scaling off the same feat but by differing amounts, etc.

 

[NON-STOPPING_GAMER2009]

They can both scale off the same feat, that feat acts as a benchmark for the scaling. But that doesn't change the fact he scales higher.

It's like, take DBZ for example, both end of Namek saga Vegeta and Final Form Frieza, are both scaling off Frieza blowing up planet vegeta, that value is the same. But that doesn't mean they're the same strength, we know Frieza can one shot Vegeta, straight up kill him, literally did.

Armstrong mutilates Mistral. They might both be scaling off the same feat, but yeah, obviously, there needs to be a feat to get them where they are to begin with, doesn't mean there isn't a gap.

Ignoring Mike Tyson could kill a 10-A in one hit to the head, and ignoring how a 10-B can kill a 10-B pretty easily, that's what upscaling is for. It's why the "at least" is there.

No, Mistral would be downscaling the value, while Armstrong is like two one-shots above the value.

If for example, someone makes a match of Dark Blue Moon (7 tons) vs an 8 ton dude, they'd be pretty even. But if someone made Peak Star Platinum vs an 8 ton dude, that 8 ton dude is omegafucked. Even though Plat is scaling off the same feat, he literally one shots dudes on that scale, pulverizing them, even though the feat used as the foundation is the same, that doesn't mean we don't factor in the nuances of things such as Plat dusting dudes on that level.

Profiles can have nuance, dudes of the same tier can be stronger than each other by a lot, dudes can be scaling off the same feat but by differing amounts, etc.

Maybe I underestimated a bloodlusted Tyson anyway. Seen him in the ring only. Man hits with 1,6 KJ which is enough to surpass handgun bullets.
But what happens if we put Senator Armstrong against a dude who takes let's say 80 megatons with insane diff, and we have Armstrong, a guy who upscales 67 (according to the wiki he doesn't, everyone is "at most" while they should be "at least"), how does it go?
Lemme remind you that Monsoon's feat is upscaled by and easily tanked by:
1. Raiden
2. Sam
3. Sundowner (massively even so, in the canon his durability is so great he laughs off attacks from Raiden)

And Armstrong already godstomps this trio.

 

[Chariot190]

Maybe I underestimated a bloodlusted Tyson anyway. Seen him in the ring only. Man hits with 1,6 KJ which is enough to surpass handgun bullets.
But what happens if we put Senator Armstrong against a dude who takes let's say 80 megatons with insane diff, and we have Armstrong, a guy who upscales 67, how does it go?
Lemme remind you that Monsoon's feat is upscaled by:
1. Raiden
2. Sam
3. Sundowner (massively even so)

And Armstrong already godstomps this trio.

Tbh, we'd prob say they're at least equal, or Armstrong's scaling chain is high enough to where the other dude is probably ****** either way.

It isn't like we ignore one shots. Like Star Platinum again, he's scaling off like a 7.4 ton feat, but it's such a ******* ridiculous upscale I'd be more than willing to say he just floors whoever the hell is in High 8-C casually if not straight murder in one hit.
Peak Plat >(dusts)> Max Power High The World > Pissed Plat > High The World > Pissed Plat but less so >(one shot)>The World>End of Part Plat >(unknown amount, but Anubis said TW was something he couldn't **** with due to how strong it is)>Anubis Chariot>Plat>>>>>Early Plat > 7 tons.
There's stuff I'm legit forgetting there, but just because Plat is scaling off 7 tons, doesn't mean he would obliterfuck dudes above 7 tons too.

Scaling can go hard. Anyway, move this to discussion thread.

 

[NON-STOPPING_GAMER2009]

I'm moving my whole PPT or blog calcs that I'm boutta do to the discussion thread after I pass the trivia to their profiles anyway, all I need to do is a video clip (I have to replay Monsoon bossfight) and we're having +2 new AP feats for Metal Gear
Although, I gotta ask. Are the speeds used in Monsoon's APC feat remain unchanged for every telekinetic thing he does? Or no? Just clarify this to me, and you're doing me a huge favour (as long as APCs thrown are concerned)
(The speed there was 0.016c, does that mean Monsoon's telekinetic power is 0.016c projectile speed for everything he throws at you during the fight?)
I personally believe yes, since he is Class G in lifting anyway.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm moving my whole PPT to the discussion thread, all I need to do is a video clip (I have to replay Monsoon bossfight) and we're having +2 new AP feats for Metal Gear
Although, I gotta ask. Do the speeds used in Monsoon's APC feat remain unchanged for every telekinetic thing he does? Or no? Just clarify this to me, and you're doing me a huge favour.

You can only use the speed calculated in a scene, for that scene. Using a calculated speed value from a different scene, and applying it to something that happens elsewhere, falls under calc stacking.

The speeds would remain the same in that fight I guess, at least for the general stuff, obviously some stuff is slower, like the big boxer wheel he does very blatantly moves slower than his fast as **** single object yeets, but like, you can calc the speed at which something with a diff speed moves, but things like the choppers move at the same speed.

(The speed there was 0.016c, does that mean Monsoon's telekinetic power is 0.016c projectile speed for everything he throws at you during the fight?)

For some.

I personally believe yes, since he is Class G in lifting anyway.

Throwing a 20 ton object at 0.016s is way the **** above Class G, by like a lot, like to the point if someone can find Raiden overpowering his magnesis restraining him or some shit that's a LS upgrade.

 

[NON-STOPPING_GAMER2009]

You can only use the speed calculated in a scene, for that scene. Using a calculated speed value from a different scene, and applying it to something that happens elsewhere, falls under calc stacking.

The speeds would remain the same in that fight I guess, at least for the general stuff, obviously some stuff is slower, like the big boxer wheel he does very blatantly moves slower than his fast as **** single object yeets, but like, you can calc the speed at which something with a diff speed moves, but things like the choppers move at the same speed.

For some.

I mean, the spinning wheel moves at similar speeds if you Ripper Mode on it, right? I have to play the fight again and inspect it, I wanna upgrade the AP, at least to not scale Raiden to High 7-A because that's the next best feat and it doesn't come from Monsoon

And I've researched it, Boxer APCs are actually 36.5 tons. The 24 ton thing, well, I didn't find any source for it tbf. https://www.knds.de/en/systems-products/wheeled-vehicles/boxer/boxer-gtv/ as my source for the weight. I assume they're that heavy. So we already got a 7-A feat.

Didn't find a good weight for the APC anyway in Wikipedia, but wikipedia does provide interesting stuff about AIM-9X Sidewinder which are the missiles the chopper has, can be used to scale travel speed. And besides, we cannot assume their weights.

Throwing a 20 ton object at 0.016s is way the **** above Class G, by like a lot, like to the point if someone can find Raiden overpowering his magnesis restraining him or some shit that's a LS upgrade.

Raiden can parry when Monsoon throws a mass of APCs at him, and the magnetic force (Jack) is applied by Monsoon, so I guess he can actually match, let alone overpower the force. Lemme remind you Raiden got massively upgraded after Outer Haven, so LS upgrades make sense. So yeah...idk where that scales
(I'm now scared because Armstrong>>>>>>>>>> Raiden in LS