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Metal Gear Solid Massive CRT. "Kept you waiting, uh?"

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You didn't say that those words, or said anything that far. But you yelled at him a lot, said he knows nothing about Metal Gear, and accused him of someone who never played Metal Gear. Actually, bringing up more obscure but not super obscure examples is actually better than just using the three "Big Boys" for everything. If we're going to compare Metal Gear to an Anime, Cowboy Bebop or to some extent Full Metal Alchemist are examples on closer grounds to Metal Gear. Just a small example of an at least effort.
 
>You didn't say that those words, or said anything that far. But you yelled at him a lot.

Yes, I didn't say anything that far, and I'm never going to, I have some degree of decency. I go out of my way to avoid insulting anyone personally, their argument maybe, but them as a person? **** that, so saying I said something like calling someone a mindless puppet, a direct insult to someone's person is kinda ****** up dude ngl. Forget to mention, but yelling? Gonna be real with Medeus, but whatever I did, it wasn't yelling.

>Actually, bringing up more obscure but not super obscure examples is actually better than just using the three "Big Boys" for everything
g̶o̶n̶n̶a̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶h̶o̶n̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶d̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶t̶.̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶t̶c̶h̶e̶d̶ ̶e̶m̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶,̶ ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶q̶u̶a̶l̶i̶f̶i̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶w̶i̶s̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶.̶ ̶

Like, idk the shit I'm most well versed on is Nintendo's shit, a few anime, a few manga, and like, a VN or two and some games that aren't at all comparable, otherwise everything else is just shit I've seen but didnt invest any time into.
Like idk, I guess if we need an example, of something comparative, Fire Emblem characters getting harmed by arrows including the big ass ************* like Grima (including stated as such, like in supports, Robin getting bit a bug and almost dying or idk forget who dying in the future from an arrow wound, same game though, maybe Owain's parents? Or Cynthia?), or I guess characters like Roy needing multiple hits to break down a stone wall. That better?
 
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If you don’t have the knowledge to make a good comparison, I recommend that you not make one at all.
 
>If you don’t have the knowledge to make a good comparison, I recommend that you not make one at all.

Which is why I didn't? I think you may have misunderstood what was said there. I'm talking about FMA and Bebop in particular, and as such, I did not use them as a comparison?
 
Yes, I got that, the last two posts weren't even about DBZ in particular. Why are you repeating it?
 
If you accept that DBZ was a bad comparison, then why the hell are you debating with me about the specific choices of comparisons and options? Get back to debating the thread topic.

This goes for both sides, naturally.

Please, no more off-topic banter after this point.
 
>If you accept that DBZ was a bad comparison, then why the hell are you debating with me about the specific choices of comparisons and options? Get back to debating the thread topic.

I'm not though? I was replying to Medeus? And opted to use Fire Emblem as an example, something that would get my point across as I know for a fact he's well versed on that subject matter and as both are games are subject to analogous examples of comparative gaming tropes and similar examples, I used that. I've barely even responded to you, I don't know why you think I'm debating with you in particular at all within the last several posts.

****, either way, agreed. Continuing this is just derailment.
 
Yeah, I can live with Fire Emblem examples with ideas foot soldiers vs foot soldiers; though, I still have other counter arguments. Bugs are often venomous and poison negates durability, so that more like a character being susceptible to poison rather than it being an anti-feat against a high tier. Also, people can put muscle into a sword or bow, so using swords and bows killing town level or Massively Hypersonic characters wouldn't contradict those ratings if the people using them are also that strong or fast. But bullets and explosions, we can't put muscle into those meaning a lot of those own calcs are exactly what they get calculated at.

But I agree, getting injured by bullets has often been a terrible argument against Tier 8 ratings for reasons being PIS. And Snake does lift a lot, and him requiring multiple punches to destroy that other wall seems like game mechanics. So I honestly think Snake being 8-C via the Cocoon feat is consistent and side with Chariot regarding that part. But, there are points against the Outer Haven feat, but too tired to recheck ATM.
 
> Bugs are often venomous and poison negates durability, so that more like a character being susceptible to poison rather than it being an anti-feat against a high tier.

My point was Robin shouldn't of even been harmed by a bug bite in the first place, it's like if a bug tried to bite a solid steel wall, my example wasnt poison but rather the fact a bug could bite him in the first place (the bug was poison though so you arent wrong, that just wasnt what I meant. Male Robin and Gregor support fyi).

>Also, people can put muscle into a sword or bow, so using swords and bows killing town level or Massively Hypersonic characters wouldn't contradict those ratings if the people using them are also that strong or fast.

Random bandits or soldiers, wasn't talking about the Lords or named characters attacking with bows and the like. There's been many examples of plot relevant skirmishes where a named character is harmed, sometimes even in a cutscene or stated, by random archers. That one support I mentioned, if I recall, even specified it was a bandit ambush.

>But, there are points against the Outer Haven feat, but too tired to recheck ATM.

I'm going to make this perfectly clear, if Raiden halted it for even one second, that's 8-A. It's 8-A energy per second, and Raiden could halt it completely and then continue to hold back for almost a full minute, him simply halting it in the first place is 8-A (And I checked, he did indeed make it grind to a halt, we get a shot that lasts a few seconds where it's completely immobile, even down to pixels), the rest is basically him being hit with 8-A energy for a full minute. If there's issues with it, it'd have be about scaling the thing itself or math, that type of issues. The actual action Raiden did is legit, the calculated feat is more his then Outer Haven's to begin with.
 
The fact that it tore Raiden's other arm off, nearly killed him, that ottacon said he was lucky to even be alive, and that in the scene prior to it he was harmed by falling debris...
 
Okay so before i respond to this, Chariot could you summariz your arguments for why th Cocoon feat shouldnt be an outlier?
 
>The fact that it tore Raiden's other arm off, nearly killed him, that ottacon said he was lucky to even be alive, and that in the scene prior to it he was harmed by falling debris...

Why are you just ignoring the fact the 8-A feat was something he did? It tore his arm off, but only after, after he used that arm to exert 8-A levels of energy for nearly a minute straight, it isn't like he did a 8-A feat then his arm instantly popped off, you're forgetting the minute straight where he exerted 8-A energy and withstood 8-A energy.
He was already nearly dead Weekly, and he was up and fighting again by the end of Ch.5. Don't know why you keep avoiding the fact he was already massively weakened before he even arrived onto the scene.
More like harmed by the tunnel going to shit, and was having issues due to already being half dead and having just fought Vamp. And wasn't actually harmed by it.
Otacon said that the first time too, of course when Raiden ups and decides to risk his life, despite being half dead, and having just fought, that being forced to exert himself to a ridiculous degree and then promptly ran over by the thing, that he'd be lucky to have made it out in one piece.

>Okay so before i respond to this, Chariot could you summariz your arguments for why th Cocoon feat shouldnt be an outlier?

Happens 3 times, happens a 4th in another game. Is supplemented by several other 8-C feats throughout games like Mantis' psychic strength for example (And no, I don't mean the shit like he burned down his town or plane explosion). A better question is, why are we even discussing if it's an outlier or not right now instead of after we combed through the games for other feats that would support the rating? As i said, you're kinda going from Point A to F here.
 
Because Mori as a moderator asked for a summarized argument of the reasons for and against it being used. What are the other three times it happens and what mantis feat are you rferring to?
 
>What are the other three times it happens and what mantis feat are you rferring to?

Wut. You know which?
And Mantis telekinetically flying Sahelantropus over 4000km (Seychella waters to 50ml inland Africa) at speeds comparable to a UTH-66 Black Hawk. Basic 8-C KE feat via telekinesis.
 
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If your referring to the other two peace walker AI they were both calced at 9-A but i dont know which feat youre claiming happened in another game

So a telekinesis feat? Not a physical feat...? Okay lets calc it just to b sure

The UTH-66 is based on the UH Black Hawk which has a top speed of 222 MPH or 99.2429 m/s

Sahelantropus canonically has 24 tons of armor on but has no canon weight itself so lets be generous and double that to 48 tons total, or 43544.9 kg

KE = 1/2 m x v^2 = 21772.4 x 9849.15320041 = 2.14e+8 Joules, Small Building level

You could double that weight and it still wouldnt break out of 9-A
 
>If your referring to the other two peace walker AI they were both calced at 9-A

Yeah, via their sustained long distance movement speed. Not the KE of their jumps, you're calcing the wrong thing here. I've gone frame by, ZEKE's jump is 92 frames (60fps game) but I'm still looking for a video with suitable footage to actually scale it and Peace Walker is kinda ridiculous, even rough scaling gets like 0.40 to 0.70 tons.

>So a telekinesis feat?

Yes, and Solid Snake can take hits from his full psychic prowess.

>Sahelantropus canonically has 24 tons of armor on

That's wrong, it's 23 tons of Uranium Archea built into his armor, not the armor or mecha itself, that he uses to melt and form into a nuclear blast. 23 tons isn't his armor, or even the mecha itself, it's just how much trace amounts of uranium is built into him, kinda like how a tank has some plastic built in.

Sahel's baseweight is around 500 tons like every Metal Gear, especially as he's basically an early REX. If anything, he's 523 tons due to the added uranium deposits.
 
Genuinely using "it tore Raiden's other arm off, nearly killed him, that ottacon said he was lucky to even be alive, and that in the scene prior to it he was harmed by falling debris..." is such a blatant, BLATANT example of ignoring context: Raiden had just come out of a strenuous fight with Vamp, where he was stabbed in almost all of his vital organs (and yes, he still had "vital organs" at this point), and he was actively being poisoned by his own blood, due to the dialisis not being complete. Raiden was nowhere near at his peak condition, and STILL, he took that 8-A impact and held it for a good minute. Saying that he doesn't scale to it because he eventually buckled up is like saying that powerlifters don't actually scale to their deadlift PR because they wouldn't be able to hold it
 
The fact it's just REX that can go bipedal? And REX, along with every other Metal Gear, are hovering around 500tons. Except Metal Gear D, which is 222tons, though he doesnt even come up to Sahel's waist.

Would you prefer we actually calculate its weight instead if you don't want to use the most accurate comparison we have?

Because using the expendable trace amounts of something its meant to actively use up ain't an accurate weight, you'd be ignoring the actual robot and rest of the armor, and railgun, and weird ass whip sword, etc.
 
Twellas said:
Miller outright states "Sahelanthropus contains something like 23 tons of depleted Uranium", he never says that the armor weights 23 tons, only that within all of his body, Sahel contains 23 tons of Uranium
Click to expand...
Yep, and this uranium archea is implemented within him for him to use to power his nuclear armaments'. That's the whole point, he doesn't need a nuke, he can make one himself on the fly. By doing this Skullface got around the need to make and import nukes, Sahel's nukes thus become instantaneous and unavoidable and can even selfdestruct if need be.

Saying Sahel is only 23 tons is like saying you only weigh a few grams because of the cup you're holding. Actually, its more like saying you weigh a few micrograms because of some (admittedly dense as ****) specks of dirt you have on your shirt.
 
Hmm, alright i see the mistake, my bad, using REX's mass for scale yields 2.48912724257e+9 joules, BARELY 8-C
 
Barely? I got like 0.58 tons. Using 500 tons as a benchmark. I wouldn't say that's barely 8-C, not super HIGH into it, but still a decent amount for a feat he pulled off for at least 10 hours without rest.
 
Hold on a second, can you post him actually lifting it? From what i remember the entire reason he was able to control it at all was because he interfaced with it directly in place of an AI
 
4ktn2f.gif

You're thinking of the wrong scene/event (not the boss fights). At the end of Ch.2, when Eli steals Sahel, Mantis lifts him and flies the mecha to africa, then Konami said nah **** you to the rest of it. I don't think I have to explain why Mantis showing up and then flying the mecha that lacks flight like 4000km across the ocean is him doing it manually.
 
Chariot190 said:
4ktn2f.gif

You're thinking of the wrong scene/event (not the boss fights). At the end of Ch.2, when Eli steals Sahel, Mantis lifts him and flies the mecha to africa, then Konami said nah **** you to the rest of it. I don't think I have to explain why Mantis showing up and then flying the mecha that lacks flight like 4000km across the ocean is him doing it manually.
Click to expand...
Sahel flapping its arms like a bird IS pretty funny ngl
 
Untill the chopper covers 4000km without stopping.
Most copters don't hit top speed five seconds after take off Weekly.
Not even in MGSV, it takes them like half a minute to hit top speed when you get carried out of missions.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
...Okay so that chopper is definitely not moving at 100 m/s so that kinda kills the feat by default
Click to expand...
Not right there, because they had just taken off, but if you look at the numbers, there's no way they reached Africe at anything below absolute top speed.
The Helicopter in question is based on the Sikorsky S-70, which can fly for 2200 KMs with its full fuel supply. This is little more than half of the distance they covered, we can explain this by saying that they had a few hundred gallons of spare fuel on board (this helicopter is used because it can be refueled mid-flight, so saying that it was refueled during the flight makes sense), but even then, there's no way the helicopter reached Africa at any speed below the max

There's also the fact that the pilots were being held at gun point, so yeah, that alone is a good incentive to go as fast as you can
 
How does that change anything exactly? We still dont see it move the same speed as the helicopter nor do we see the helicopter moving at top speed
 
Twellas said:
Not right there, because they had just taken off, but if you look at the numbers, there's no way they reached Africe at anything below absolute top speed.
The Helicopter in question is based on the Sikorsky S-70, which can fly for 2200 KMs with its full fuel supply. This is little more than half of the distance they covered, we can explain this by saying that they had a few hundred gallons of spare fuel on board (this helicopter is used because it can be refueled mid-flight, so saying that it was refueled during the flight makes sense), but even then, there's no way the helicopter reached Africa at any speed below the max

There's also the fact that the pilots were being held at gun point, so yeah, that alone is a good incentive to go as fast as you can
Click to expand...
Thats a hefty amount of assumptions youre making my guy
 
Also you do know that moving faster doesnt mean fuel will last longer right...? Hell moving at top sped would burn fuel faster
 
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