- 31,466
- 34,329
If he jumps high, it might be higher than the GPE method.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Metal Gear Solid Massive CRT. "Kept you waiting, uh?"
- Thread starter Twellas
- Start date
- Status
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #402
- 61,177
- 14,747
If they were 8-C non of that would hav harmed thm
- 61,177
- 14,747
Okay but the explosion and crash both harmed him
Seeing as Venom has an 8-C dura feat (Would actually be downgraded to 9-A as Surface Area wasnt taken into account) i dont really see why youre claiming hes just a normal human
Seeing as Venom has an 8-C dura feat (Would actually be downgraded to 9-A as Surface Area wasnt taken into account) i dont really see why youre claiming hes just a normal human
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #406
There's a great difference between "being armed" and "going into a coma". Big Boss doesn't even show any injury and still moves after the explosion, if we really wanna nitpick the scene
That feat is kinda embarassing tbh, it's clearly just gameplay mechanics, and by "normal human" I mean that he doesn't have the Soldier Genes like the Snakes, and the Soldier Genes make the "user" much, much stronger and more skilled than normal humans, not that he's average human in tier, obviously
- 61,177
- 14,747
He shows severe burns plus what implies at any point that he drowned?
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #408
No he doesn't, what we see on his face is clearly blood and dirt, and even if he did, that wouldn't say anything about his Durability, that's a heat resistance feat
The fact that they fell into the ocean while trapped inside an helicopter? What's sure is that the explosion didn't put him into a coma, because, as I've already said, he clearly moves right after it, and if you look at Big Boss' body on the operation table, he doesn't show any superficial damage, hell HE OUTRIGHT MOVES, which means that he didn't suffer any damage that impeded his movement
Last edited:
- 61,177
- 14,747
No, an explosion is not a heat feat it is a durability feat
And how would he have drowned if he wasnt injured enough to not be able to move out of the wreck through the open door next to him? Or just break through the wall?
>He outright moves
>Doctors in the clip panicking because he has no pulse and trying to stabilize him
...?
Also what are you talking about when you say he wasnt in a coma for nine years? He went under in March of 75 and woke up in 84
And how would he have drowned if he wasnt injured enough to not be able to move out of the wreck through the open door next to him? Or just break through the wall?
>He outright moves
>Doctors in the clip panicking because he has no pulse and trying to stabilize him
...?
Also what are you talking about when you say he wasnt in a coma for nine years? He went under in March of 75 and woke up in 84
- 61,177
- 14,747
Also you do know that you dont have to be physically immobilized to suffer severe physical damage right? Even if he did move in that scene the fact that the doctors are saying that hes in critical condition on the verge of dying means that he was wounded severely
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #411
Because he was under 2 helicopters, buried under various corpses, that's why. Of course he brroke free, but it would have taken enough time to at least suffer some of the effects of drowning, especially since he had to carry Venom
yeah, there are a billion reasons for a lack of pulse that are not related to physical damage, which Big Boss clearly didn't suffer
Did you miss the part where he was already awake before the start of TPP and had organized the whole thing with Ocelot?
It's not about being "physically immobilized", it's about Big Boss literally not showing any superficial damage.
You're also getting hung on this single instance, as if low-ends are a thing that doesn't exist and a single feat under the average automatically debunks everything. Let's just wait for the various feats to be calc'd before trying to claim something as a debunk for a certain tier without even knowing what tier we are talking about in the first place
- 61,177
- 14,747
If he had Class M lifting strength why couldnt h just free himself?
No pulse means he didnt move.
Nope because he wasnt awake before then
Dude, being in a 9 year long coma is pretty damn serious damage.
what are you talking about? Its not a low end if it literally killed him.
No pulse means he didnt move.
Nope because he wasnt awake before then
Dude, being in a 9 year long coma is pretty damn serious damage.
what are you talking about? Its not a low end if it literally killed him.
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #413
He... did tho? It's just that he was still under several tons of steel plummeting under the ocean, just the time it would have taken to swim back up would be enough to start suffering the effects of drowning, let alone when you don't just have to free yourself, but another guy aswell
He literally did tho, it's shown on screen
We actually don't know this
1 it didn't kill him 2 it's the definition of a low end feat to be harmed by something below what's displayed by the character on average, no matter how serious the damage suffered.
Maybe we should wait for the tier to be defined before screaming "debunk"?
Last edited:
- 61,177
- 14,747
So let me get this straight, you claim that h can casually lift Cocoon but struggles to list a mass that is a fraction of its weight in a life threatening situation?
Unless youre referring to th spasms that happen to the body when shock paddles ar applied i see no independent movement from boss.
? We do know this though, its dirctly stated in the game that he had been in the coma for nine years
1. It did kill him his heart literally stopped beating that is the definition of killing him
2. When what is displayed on average lines up with the low end that makes it no longer a low end, that makes the singular higher feat an outlier, especially when the supposed low-end feat outright killed him and is consistent with the potency of other feats that severely wound/nearly kill people on his level.
I mean i already calcd the tier and Medeus gave his input so i dont see what there is to wait for
Unless youre referring to th spasms that happen to the body when shock paddles ar applied i see no independent movement from boss.
? We do know this though, its dirctly stated in the game that he had been in the coma for nine years
1. It did kill him his heart literally stopped beating that is the definition of killing him
2. When what is displayed on average lines up with the low end that makes it no longer a low end, that makes the singular higher feat an outlier, especially when the supposed low-end feat outright killed him and is consistent with the potency of other feats that severely wound/nearly kill people on his level.
I mean i already calcd the tier and Medeus gave his input so i dont see what there is to wait for
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #415
In a far less favourable situation, and are you seriously comparing a plain overhead lift to lifting something you are inside of while under the ocean and surrounded by corpses? And I never said he struggled, what I said is that logically speaking, there is no way he didn't suffer some degree of drowning
He literally tries to get up
no; plain and simple, no; your heart stopping for a few seconds at best is not the same as dying
But we don't know if what is displayed on average lines up with the low end, there are still like 5 feats to calc and evaluate before we can say that, you two calcing (inaccurately, might I add, because you didn't take the jump into account, but the running speed) 1 feat doesn't mean that the verse's average is on that level.
Wait for all the feats to be calc'd and then we'll have this discussion
- 61,177
- 14,747
Yes actually, thats what lifting strength is, if anything he should have been even more capable of it du to the adrenaline of being in a life or death situation, or if he wasnt injured just brute forced his way out.
No he didnt, his body spasms from the defibrilators trying to restart his heart, thats how they work, you even hear him flatlining in the background, there is no physical way he would be moving if he had no pulse
Your heart stopping is the literal definition of clinical death
At this point its not one feat, its almost a dozen
No he didnt, his body spasms from the defibrilators trying to restart his heart, thats how they work, you even hear him flatlining in the background, there is no physical way he would be moving if he had no pulse
Your heart stopping is the literal definition of clinical death
At this point its not one feat, its almost a dozen
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #417
Mate, he DID get out, I'm not saying he didn't, what I'm saying is that logically speaking, there is no way he freed himself before he suffered some form of drowning, and man, the very fact that right after the explosion and the impact, he could break away from the two helicopters and swim to the surface shows that it wasn't the explosion or the impact alone that put him in coma
But he moved his arm in the cutscene, not just his chest like in the video you posted
>ignoring that this refers to permanent heart-stop
No, you barely calc'd one feat, and the rest you simply gave an half-ass response like "I don't think this is tier 8" or "no way this is tier 8" with no actual calc to back it up. Let's have the feats ACTUALLY calc'd and evaluated, and THEN we can talk about "average tier of the verse"
- 15,688
- 13,210
You mean the wall punch? The very first feat in the entire Metal Gear franchise taking place like ten minutes into its inception?
That was his very first mission and he was fresh and brand new for all intents and purposes. And it actually didn't take that many, I've looked over a few videos and the numbers varied a bit, I've seen it sometimes take like 5, guess it depends on if you stop and move before continuing (Also if you want to use a feat like that, you're already arguing against yourself in things like bullets being a issue, as even the lowest possible end of that would make anyone bullet proof).
Also, could you imagine if every single feat of a verse had to be exactly 100% on the same level at all times and if something happens that's slightly lower then the rest it automatically invalidates everything above it? Nothing would survive that, we'd have High 8-C DBZ as the most consistent level (let alone the lowest level, 9-B Goku would be a reality even though that's a huge outlier), shit like 9-B Pokemon at best for 90% of the verse, maybe tier 9-C Zelda, Mario would be 9-B etc, of course higher feats exist but sometimes there's feats that aren't as high as the best so we use the next best thing, but sometimes there's feats below those too so that becomes the new benchmark, ad infinitum till you get to an extremely dishonest tier. It took Vegeta 100 punches to make a High 8-C crater while pummeling Goku Black and like 8 to knock him through a building, we ain't gonna say that's his limit or peak though. The fact you just admitted a feat close to Big Boss' feat exists, and it's done by the earliest possible Snake casually in only a few blows supports the Big Boss feat, not goes against it. Yes I'm using other verse examples, yes I know "this aint about those verses" before anyone decides to use that old card, I'm merely stating that you're being dishonest and hypocritical.
Actually if anything, this supports Snake in his prime and others being at least tier 8, especially Big Boss at his peak, being quite a bit above that given every Snake to an extent has some sort of accelerated growth that, over time in their missions, they get more skilled and stronger, untill their 40, then the opposite comes into play and they become ass because of being made like that so they can't turn on their "masters", built in Werner's syndrome (like it aint no Raiden growth where he can cover gaps of hundreds in minutes but still). (This should actually be evident in he OP alone from the skill and power listing chart, only issue anyone had with it was Venom's placement, and Rookie Snake is at the bottom).
Honestly Weekly, no offense, but it's clear you've never actually played through Metal Gear, you're kinda just arguing for the sake of it, sit back and let knowledgeable members comb over the games for some viable feats first to see what's actually quantifiable before you get so trigger happy. You're going from Step 1 to like Step 8 here.
Anyway thanks for coming to my ted talk.
>Though, I may have doubts of scaling "Everyone" from Snake tbf. If there are characters legit weaker than snake such as various nameless marines.
Do we even do that? I thought the Snakes and those explicitly on par if not above scaled, nothing else though. Like Big Boss, Liquid, Solid, Solidus, Ocelot (this ****** is stacked genetically and is basically the final boss of the franchise and also the first chronologically, spinoffs not withstanding), Raiden (he's probably physically weaker but eh, cant be by much, hard to tell though, next time we see his ass he's a cyborg who's throwing mechs around himself in extravagant manners), The Boss, Volgin and I'd like to say Venom and I think that's it? Characters like Psycho Mantis can do their own shit like lift mecha with their mind and even telekinetically control them. Hell, he picked up Sahelantropus and brought him over 4000km casually.
Normal marines obviously shouldn't scale at all, like ******* ever. It's like saying a normal thug scales to Bruce Wayne or Spidey.
Characters like Raiden and Vamp have their own scaling chain with stopping Outer Haven (and probably Raiden's first body in Rising to a degree, which can pick and and toss metal gears through the air casually) and by the time of Rising mecha lifting and tossing doesnt even get treated as a showing anymore, it just kinda happens and nobody even responds to it (Oh Raiden just tossed Ray across a city block? Ok", "Oh Raiden ripped off a Metal Gear armed blade and proceeds to ******* sword fight the metal gear with it and swing it at mach speeds? Huh just another tuesday".
That was his very first mission and he was fresh and brand new for all intents and purposes. And it actually didn't take that many, I've looked over a few videos and the numbers varied a bit, I've seen it sometimes take like 5, guess it depends on if you stop and move before continuing (Also if you want to use a feat like that, you're already arguing against yourself in things like bullets being a issue, as even the lowest possible end of that would make anyone bullet proof).
Also, could you imagine if every single feat of a verse had to be exactly 100% on the same level at all times and if something happens that's slightly lower then the rest it automatically invalidates everything above it? Nothing would survive that, we'd have High 8-C DBZ as the most consistent level (let alone the lowest level, 9-B Goku would be a reality even though that's a huge outlier), shit like 9-B Pokemon at best for 90% of the verse, maybe tier 9-C Zelda, Mario would be 9-B etc, of course higher feats exist but sometimes there's feats that aren't as high as the best so we use the next best thing, but sometimes there's feats below those too so that becomes the new benchmark, ad infinitum till you get to an extremely dishonest tier. It took Vegeta 100 punches to make a High 8-C crater while pummeling Goku Black and like 8 to knock him through a building, we ain't gonna say that's his limit or peak though. The fact you just admitted a feat close to Big Boss' feat exists, and it's done by the earliest possible Snake casually in only a few blows supports the Big Boss feat, not goes against it. Yes I'm using other verse examples, yes I know "this aint about those verses" before anyone decides to use that old card, I'm merely stating that you're being dishonest and hypocritical.
Actually if anything, this supports Snake in his prime and others being at least tier 8, especially Big Boss at his peak, being quite a bit above that given every Snake to an extent has some sort of accelerated growth that, over time in their missions, they get more skilled and stronger, untill their 40, then the opposite comes into play and they become ass because of being made like that so they can't turn on their "masters", built in Werner's syndrome (like it aint no Raiden growth where he can cover gaps of hundreds in minutes but still). (This should actually be evident in he OP alone from the skill and power listing chart, only issue anyone had with it was Venom's placement, and Rookie Snake is at the bottom).
Honestly Weekly, no offense, but it's clear you've never actually played through Metal Gear, you're kinda just arguing for the sake of it, sit back and let knowledgeable members comb over the games for some viable feats first to see what's actually quantifiable before you get so trigger happy. You're going from Step 1 to like Step 8 here.
Anyway thanks for coming to my ted talk.
>Though, I may have doubts of scaling "Everyone" from Snake tbf. If there are characters legit weaker than snake such as various nameless marines.
Do we even do that? I thought the Snakes and those explicitly on par if not above scaled, nothing else though. Like Big Boss, Liquid, Solid, Solidus, Ocelot (this ****** is stacked genetically and is basically the final boss of the franchise and also the first chronologically, spinoffs not withstanding), Raiden (he's probably physically weaker but eh, cant be by much, hard to tell though, next time we see his ass he's a cyborg who's throwing mechs around himself in extravagant manners), The Boss, Volgin and I'd like to say Venom and I think that's it? Characters like Psycho Mantis can do their own shit like lift mecha with their mind and even telekinetically control them. Hell, he picked up Sahelantropus and brought him over 4000km casually.
Normal marines obviously shouldn't scale at all, like ******* ever. It's like saying a normal thug scales to Bruce Wayne or Spidey.
Characters like Raiden and Vamp have their own scaling chain with stopping Outer Haven (and probably Raiden's first body in Rising to a degree, which can pick and and toss metal gears through the air casually) and by the time of Rising mecha lifting and tossing doesnt even get treated as a showing anymore, it just kinda happens and nobody even responds to it (Oh Raiden just tossed Ray across a city block? Ok", "Oh Raiden ripped off a Metal Gear armed blade and proceeds to ******* sword fight the metal gear with it and swing it at mach speeds? Huh just another tuesday".
- 15,688
- 13,210
>actually arguing the the ground zeros explosion as the benchmark
Has Weekly ever heard of PIS? That's like complaining that Vegeta and 18 died to a planet sized explosion in Super. It's a plot riddled lowend. Anyone who's actually played the games would be able to differentiate between that.
Hell it's literally the equivalent of Zack dying to gun fire. Which is an outright impossibility piercing or not for someone of his caliber (4-B dying to 9-C/9-B, with said characters actually be able to tank piercing damage as he can take 4-B sword strikes) let alone a tier 8 getting hurt by some tier 9 shit for the sake of a plot.
Has Weekly ever heard of PIS? That's like complaining that Vegeta and 18 died to a planet sized explosion in Super. It's a plot riddled lowend. Anyone who's actually played the games would be able to differentiate between that.
Hell it's literally the equivalent of Zack dying to gun fire. Which is an outright impossibility piercing or not for someone of his caliber (4-B dying to 9-C/9-B, with said characters actually be able to tank piercing damage as he can take 4-B sword strikes) let alone a tier 8 getting hurt by some tier 9 shit for the sake of a plot.
Last edited:
- 15,688
- 13,210
Also was talking about ZEKE's jump being 8-C, treating ZEKE as 500 tons and agsizing the distance it jumps.
Using mass force acceleration we can get a lifting strength for it that scales to Big Boss.
The speed at which it jumps as well from doing that and plugging it into a basic KE calculator comes out to like baseline 8-C.
Using mass force acceleration we can get a lifting strength for it that scales to Big Boss.
The speed at which it jumps as well from doing that and plugging it into a basic KE calculator comes out to like baseline 8-C.
- 10,462
- 1,521
Venom/Big Boss right after coma survived like 3 equal or even more powerful explosions in less than an hour and still managed to escape the hospital, so yeah it's pretty much PIS.
- 15,688
- 13,210
I'm pretty sure that sequence only exists because in an earlier game it was said Zero got the genetics from Big Boss after he was rendered incapacitated from a mission in the 70s. And so, they just were like "well **** this game takes place around then, we gotta make do on that end". So they just kinda took the most viable way to put his ass in a coma that was possible with the characters in play while also setting up the big brain kojima plot twist as how it usually plays out with Kojima.
Hell any and all anti-feats regarding burning should be a tad sus as a basis given Solid can walk through a chamber that vaporizes people for over 3 minutes and Naked (Big Boss) could be bathed in the fallout of a nuclear bomb that lit everything up in a orange hue.
Hell any and all anti-feats regarding burning should be a tad sus as a basis given Solid can walk through a chamber that vaporizes people for over 3 minutes and Naked (Big Boss) could be bathed in the fallout of a nuclear bomb that lit everything up in a orange hue.
- 15,688
- 13,210
Oh wait, Sahelantropus jump is ******* ridiculous, it can jump like half a km in like two seconds. And that's because Mantis is controlling him telekinetically like a puppet if my understanding is correct.
- 15,688
- 13,210
Would we say Venom being able to survive hits from that ****** (including being jumped on ironically enough) be support for tier 8? As well as Mantis controlling him telekinetically (As well as carrying him over 4000km from Seychella to Africa with his tk alone, no timeframe though I think? Though, Mantis can effortlessly keep up with a military grade helicopter when doing this going at top speed to avoid getting caught as well as not once stopping, as we learn they kept flying without end till they basically crashed due to loss of fuel like 20km into the coast of africa, so he's at least tossing Sahel around at 70mps, which is, of course, Tier 8 based on KE, which he can do for over 4000km without rest).
That's at least a Tier 8 for Mantis based on tk alone, which isnt even his best attack.
Edit: Actually, Big Boss employs Blackfoot helicopters, as that's what pequod is. If the helicopter in question is a Blackfoot, that's a speed of 365km, or 101mps, not 70mps. Meaning it's solidly tier 8 telekinetic prowess for him.
That's at least a Tier 8 for Mantis based on tk alone, which isnt even his best attack.
Edit: Actually, Big Boss employs Blackfoot helicopters, as that's what pequod is. If the helicopter in question is a Blackfoot, that's a speed of 365km, or 101mps, not 70mps. Meaning it's solidly tier 8 telekinetic prowess for him.
Last edited:
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #426
Eh i don't know about Venom tanking hits from Sahel, i recently replayed the fight, and Sahel doesn't actually hit Venom with his own body, it uses the flamethrower, machinegun, Metallic Archea and Rail Gun (which instantly kills Venom) but doesn't do anything like stomping or punching him
- 15,688
- 13,210
It can stomp you and you can live it, it's just not an attack it spams. (Railgun only kills on Extreme Mission 50 fyi, not the standard version of the mission).
Either way, Mantis has at minimum Tier 8 TK and psychic abilities (0.61422801 tons), and Solid Snake can take hits from him using psychic based attacks including energy orbs and shit.
Either way, Mantis has at minimum Tier 8 TK and psychic abilities (0.61422801 tons), and Solid Snake can take hits from him using psychic based attacks including energy orbs and shit.
- 2,677
- 780
- Thread starter
- #428
I played it on normal, and it also instantly kills at that difficulty
- 31,466
- 34,329
@Chariot190 I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what you're saying; however, I think you might be overreacting with some of those comparisons. I mean, the batman and Spiderman examples are fairly solid points; but comparing military themed verses to Shounen verses with linear PL systems that are always skyrocketing + Ki Control being a staple where all low end portrayals are either extremely casual, character actively trying to avoid causing destruction whether for moral or ambitious reasons, characters purposely suppressing their defenses, or characters exhausted for other reasons. Not all verses are that in your face at explaining the low end portrayals. I'd try to stick to comparing Metal Gear to maybe FPS, RTS, or other stealth games for most on point comparisons.
But as for the rest. I have a really busy schedule and mostly just want to be able to find peaceful solutions.
But as for the rest. I have a really busy schedule and mostly just want to be able to find peaceful solutions.
- 15,688
- 13,210
My point is that it's utterly ridiculous. And that's not inherently true, take Vegeta Vs. Goku Black for example, Vegeta was pissed off, trying his best and trying to prove a point and was doing it with raw physical strength.
>High 8-C after a few hundred blows.
Or, if you'd prefer, take Frieza, someone who had absolutely awful Ki Control when he first debuted, in fact only recently mastering Ki control, yet, of course, not every attack or punch Frieza threw was busting planets, a good chunk were High 8-C, maybe some 8-A to 7-C thrown in. Of course, despite Frieza having awful, if any Ki Control, (as said, he only mastered it recently) we aren't going to say "well shit, Frieza was obviously making an effort when he did that city busting attack, that must be his limit". That obviously aint how it works.
I'm using DBZ as an example because everyone here knows of it, I could switch to something else of note like Pokemon for examples instead, DBZ is mostly used to avoid using obscure examples that'd need to be explained to get the point across. Though, characters in MGS tend to have accelerated growth, Naked Snake at the start of MGS3 can't hold a candle to Big Boss by the end of the game, there's some linear progression going on (Explicitly so with Raiden, but this topic doesn't involve him).
>but comparing military themed verses
>comparing Metal Gear to maybe FPS, RTS, or other stealth games for most on point comparisons.
I know right? That's what you'd expect, then you find out MGS is the most anime game to grace the planet and it's all a big anime trope with shit like pure hatred keeping people alive, ghosts and supernatural entities, psychics, anime mecha, bioweapons, and more, it's like if a hyper realistic sci-fi game was mixed with TV Tropes anime page. I mean, to give you an idea, the final boss of Peace Walker has a character song sung by Nana Mizuki as the main theme. If anything a better example would be comparing MGS to something like, Metroid, if Metroid wasn't in space, has a lot of similar things but toned down (other then the plot, which is toned up to like 50).
>High 8-C after a few hundred blows.
Or, if you'd prefer, take Frieza, someone who had absolutely awful Ki Control when he first debuted, in fact only recently mastering Ki control, yet, of course, not every attack or punch Frieza threw was busting planets, a good chunk were High 8-C, maybe some 8-A to 7-C thrown in. Of course, despite Frieza having awful, if any Ki Control, (as said, he only mastered it recently) we aren't going to say "well shit, Frieza was obviously making an effort when he did that city busting attack, that must be his limit". That obviously aint how it works.
I'm using DBZ as an example because everyone here knows of it, I could switch to something else of note like Pokemon for examples instead, DBZ is mostly used to avoid using obscure examples that'd need to be explained to get the point across. Though, characters in MGS tend to have accelerated growth, Naked Snake at the start of MGS3 can't hold a candle to Big Boss by the end of the game, there's some linear progression going on (Explicitly so with Raiden, but this topic doesn't involve him).
>but comparing military themed verses
>comparing Metal Gear to maybe FPS, RTS, or other stealth games for most on point comparisons.
I know right? That's what you'd expect, then you find out MGS is the most anime game to grace the planet and it's all a big anime trope with shit like pure hatred keeping people alive, ghosts and supernatural entities, psychics, anime mecha, bioweapons, and more, it's like if a hyper realistic sci-fi game was mixed with TV Tropes anime page. I mean, to give you an idea, the final boss of Peace Walker has a character song sung by Nana Mizuki as the main theme. If anything a better example would be comparing MGS to something like, Metroid, if Metroid wasn't in space, has a lot of similar things but toned down (other then the plot, which is toned up to like 50).
- 61,177
- 14,747
I'll be responding to the stuff discussed here in a few minutes but Chariot can you please try to keep responses brief and relatively accusation free? Claiming that people who disagree with you hav no idea what thyre talking about or are just trying to downgrade things to spite you is rather rude and unncessary.
- 15,688
- 13,210
No, I stand by what i said with you having very little idea on what you're talking about, do I say that to offend? No, but you've made that clear, you leave out critical bits of information, seemingly don't know the context, ignore various situations and other feats, and seemingly aren't even aware of some basic verse wide shit. It's clear you haven't played the games and are almost entirely going on profiles, second hand information or youtube videos. Won't hold it against you, but it is what it is.
>relatively accusation free?/Claiming that people who disagree with you hav no idea what thyre talking about or are just trying to downgrade things to spite you is rather rude and unncessary.
Excuse you? Maybe if I actually ******* said that? Kinda odd how you tell me not to say things then turn around and proceed to accuse me of saying a thing I never once actually said? What the **** actually.
How about you post me saying the latter there first before you continue whatever it is you're typing.
>relatively accusation free?/Claiming that people who disagree with you hav no idea what thyre talking about or are just trying to downgrade things to spite you is rather rude and unncessary.
Excuse you? Maybe if I actually ******* said that? Kinda odd how you tell me not to say things then turn around and proceed to accuse me of saying a thing I never once actually said? What the **** actually.
How about you post me saying the latter there first before you continue whatever it is you're typing.
- 61,177
- 14,747
Chariot i have played through almost every single Metal Gear game with the ones i havent played through readily accessible on youtube and have been in discussion with other knowledgeable members about the verse for the past three days, i do in fact know what i am talking about. Unless you'd like to say that the other five staff members who are all in agreement about the things i have been saying also dont know what theyre talking about because what ive been saying is stuff that we discussed.
Youre really going to claim you didnt say this? On top of what you quite literally just said yourself?
- 15,688
- 13,210
>Chariot i have played through almost every single Metal Gear game with the ones i havent played through readily accessible on youtube and have been in discussion with other knowledgeable members about the verse for the past three days, i do in fact know what i am talking about.
You know, I really don't believe you, if so, it must have been not very recent. You can't just leave out context and other various info like you have been doing if true, some things you've said have even been worded kinda poorly like "numerous punches", I don't think anyone here would say like, 5 punches amounts to numerous.
>Unless you'd like to say that the other five staff members who are all in agreement about the things i have been saying also dont know what theyre talking about because what ive been saying is stuff that we discussed.
Dude, the staff members should be here in the first place. Of course I want them to actually partake in the discussion. That's the thing "we discussed", as in you and them, but not the other half dozen people in this thread.
>Youre really going to claim you didnt say this? On top of what you quite literally just said yourself?
No, I did say that. Don't know where I said anything about you trying to downgrade to spite me personally though. Though you being trigger happy? Yeah definitely, you immediately go from Point A to like F, I havent seen you actually make an effort in bringing up alternatives or possible feats, it only took you a few posts in to try and jump to immediate downgrade. Is this out of spite? **** if I know, I ain't you, I don't know you personally. but is it jumping to worst possible result before the games get combed over for some nice support or other feats? Well yes, it most certainly is. And as for the other bit, still kinda stand by that, no offense.
You know, I really don't believe you, if so, it must have been not very recent. You can't just leave out context and other various info like you have been doing if true, some things you've said have even been worded kinda poorly like "numerous punches", I don't think anyone here would say like, 5 punches amounts to numerous.
>Unless you'd like to say that the other five staff members who are all in agreement about the things i have been saying also dont know what theyre talking about because what ive been saying is stuff that we discussed.
Dude, the staff members should be here in the first place. Of course I want them to actually partake in the discussion. That's the thing "we discussed", as in you and them, but not the other half dozen people in this thread.
>Youre really going to claim you didnt say this? On top of what you quite literally just said yourself?
No, I did say that. Don't know where I said anything about you trying to downgrade to spite me personally though. Though you being trigger happy? Yeah definitely, you immediately go from Point A to like F, I havent seen you actually make an effort in bringing up alternatives or possible feats, it only took you a few posts in to try and jump to immediate downgrade. Is this out of spite? **** if I know, I ain't you, I don't know you personally. but is it jumping to worst possible result before the games get combed over for some nice support or other feats? Well yes, it most certainly is. And as for the other bit, still kinda stand by that, no offense.
- 8,904
- 3,457
I don’t advise dismissing people and saying they don’t know what they’re talking about unless you are quite incredibly sure they aren’t, Chariot. Furthermore, that doesn’t actually contribute to your argument.
If you may, to keep the thread simple and in brevity, cut aggressive fluff and thorns from the dish to leave only the final, edible meal to consume.
If you may, to keep the thread simple and in brevity, cut aggressive fluff and thorns from the dish to leave only the final, edible meal to consume.
- 31,466
- 34,329
Vegeta was trying to get the Ki sense to sky rocket and intimidate Black, he wasn't actively trying to destroy the city, let alone the planet or Universe. Not to mention; he was already way stronger than a lot of enemies with Tier 5 and Tier 4 feats, and even a lot stronger than Goku was when he first performed the 3-A feat.
Frieza example is also not the best either. "Awful Ki control" also doesn't cut it. He lacked Ki sense, not Ki Control. And actually, Piccolo outright states during the fight he could have easily wiped out the planet in a single blast if he wanted to. And said the only reason he hasn't is because he's toying with Goku. Not to mention, Frieza actually does destroy Namek in the end and tanks the destruction at point blank in the end.
A lot of other staff members also told us to shut up about Dragon Ball for those very reasons. Because talking about Dragon Ball on threads that aren't Dragon Ball is an overrated practice. If this was a Yu Yu Hakusho thread which also has Reiki Control, Naruto which has Chakra control, Star Wars which has Force Manipulation for all their powers, or Golden Sun which uses Psynergy, and the list goes on. I'd forgive it since it's contextually similar examples. But I'm going to step in and call out fallacies when people compare Ki blasts to ballistics, hand grenades, and man made nuclear weapons. The DC =/= AP is a solid debate for the former, but not the latter.
Also, Weekly and Moritzva are right. Accusing Weekly of being a mindless puppet who doesn't know anything is uncalled for, and excessive profanity needs to be toned down. Also, I do agree that some of those staff members should preferably comment here, but I can confirm that those several staff members do agree with his points.
Frieza example is also not the best either. "Awful Ki control" also doesn't cut it. He lacked Ki sense, not Ki Control. And actually, Piccolo outright states during the fight he could have easily wiped out the planet in a single blast if he wanted to. And said the only reason he hasn't is because he's toying with Goku. Not to mention, Frieza actually does destroy Namek in the end and tanks the destruction at point blank in the end.
A lot of other staff members also told us to shut up about Dragon Ball for those very reasons. Because talking about Dragon Ball on threads that aren't Dragon Ball is an overrated practice. If this was a Yu Yu Hakusho thread which also has Reiki Control, Naruto which has Chakra control, Star Wars which has Force Manipulation for all their powers, or Golden Sun which uses Psynergy, and the list goes on. I'd forgive it since it's contextually similar examples. But I'm going to step in and call out fallacies when people compare Ki blasts to ballistics, hand grenades, and man made nuclear weapons. The DC =/= AP is a solid debate for the former, but not the latter.
Also, Weekly and Moritzva are right. Accusing Weekly of being a mindless puppet who doesn't know anything is uncalled for, and excessive profanity needs to be toned down. Also, I do agree that some of those staff members should preferably comment here, but I can confirm that those several staff members do agree with his points.
Last edited:
- 8,904
- 3,457
... I’m going to be honest, I saw this in a vacuum and was immediately quite confused as to if I was the wrong thread.
That should make it clear enough that bringing up DBZ has next to zero relevance to this topic and I agree with your later point, it’s a pointless comparison.
- 15,688
- 13,210
>Vegeta was trying to get the Ki sense to sky rocket and intimidate Black, he wasn't actively trying to destroy the city, let alone the planet or Universe. Not to mention; he was already way stronger than a lot of enemies with Tier 5 and Tier 4 feats, and even a lot stronger than Goku was when he first performed the 3-A feat.
Yes, exactly, but that wasn't my point.
>He lacked Ki sense, not Ki Control.
What? He did though, in fact he just recently learned how to master it, that's what "Perfect Golden Frieza" is, him finally getting a hang of Ki control, back in the Frieza arc, he actually did have bad ki control, if any.
>Accusing Weekly of being a mindless puppet who doesn't know anything is uncalled for,
Excuse me? mindless puppet? What in the actual ****, at this point it isn't me saying shit, it's other people saying I said shit. hell not even at my limit would I ******* say that to someone, if I ever do you have my blessing to give me shit for it.
Yes, exactly, but that wasn't my point.
>He lacked Ki sense, not Ki Control.
What? He did though, in fact he just recently learned how to master it, that's what "Perfect Golden Frieza" is, him finally getting a hang of Ki control, back in the Frieza arc, he actually did have bad ki control, if any.
>Accusing Weekly of being a mindless puppet who doesn't know anything is uncalled for,
Excuse me? mindless puppet? What in the actual ****, at this point it isn't me saying shit, it's other people saying I said shit. hell not even at my limit would I ******* say that to someone, if I ever do you have my blessing to give me shit for it.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,959
- 4,486
Yeah... saying he's a mindless puppet is just outright wrong, since he literally didn't say that.
Although, Chariot should probably just tone his language down a bit, as it comes out a bit aggressive.
Although, Chariot should probably just tone his language down a bit, as it comes out a bit aggressive.
- 8,904
- 3,457
First off, DBZ is still literally pointless as a comparison and should be dropped by both sides as I can clearly see that comparing the planet-busting close quarters combat anime shounen to the stealth and subterfuge futuristic tale of mechas is, to say the least, not a worthwhile endeavor.
Second off, using semantics to evade the point is similarly meaningless. Stop wasting text telling people they don’t know what they’re talking about. You said it once, and you were wrong no less, so be extra cautious about fluffy language meant only to personally denounce the opponent.
As I am completely neutral to MGS, I’ll watch this thread and arbitrate neutrally.
- Status
Similar threads
