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Meliodas and Zeldris vs Asta and Yuno

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Makai64100 said:
Damn you might Damage 3245 my sight if you are underage.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I'm legal.

nero-black-clover-43395076-1268-1694.jpg
 
Funny debate lol
Arnoldstone18 said:
appears, He keeps doing this until he outsmarted him by going into a rundown building knowing his weight obviously wouldn't support him on the top floor.

So no, Asta's precognition and instinctive reaction-based swordsmanship from Yami is enough to counter whatever skill they have as long as he knows how Meldris will swing their sword. Meliodas' enhanced senses, I mean "analytical predictions" is not going to do anything against Asta's unpredictable fighting style that throws off sharp senses (Via the assimilation of Kiato's swordsmanship with Dance Magic)

Second of all their swordplay is good enough to counter Asta's swordplay even with two swords, i will admit. However, Asta can easily counter via precognition till he inevitably adapts to their skills (Assuming the fight lasts that long to make Asta want to steal their skill) so their swordplay doesn't really matter.


If I did not cover everything you said. LMK what i missed tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Asta's precognition is based on feeling the next moves of their opponents. Now, I really wonder how ki reading gives Asta the win against Meldris swordplay? Meliodas has such a fighting style that is seems like he has precog which isn't. He instinctively reacts and his reflexes are just insane.
most of the feats are from Mel (he has more feats, Zeldris scales to some point)

example 1:
Makai already explained this but without scans. Meliodas vs Golgius
Golgius is a dude who has invisibility magic, it looks like he teleports. Meliodas wasn't able to sense him and still blocked his weapon.
Meliodas protects Eli with his broken weapon while not knowing where Golgius would strike.
Later, as Makai said, Meliodas was able to analyse Golgius to the point that he knew where he would stand in a house where Meliodas was "hiding". Meliodas already had cut the floor where Golgius got trapped.

Does Asta have better reaction feat? Meliodas already had insane reaction without being able to read ki. My point is: Meliodas has insane reflexes. He would even react to Asta's counters with precog.
Does asta have better analytical skill also?

Not convinced yet?

example 2:
Meliodas was fighting against Drole when he got blitzed from a blind spot. Gloxinia didn't notice anything WHILE and after he blitzed Mel. That's an another Insane instinctive reflex from Mel. He also fought 2 commandments who were relative in power. How exactly is ki reading preventing Asta from getting blitzed when he is still in the moment of attack (while the attack actually lands)?

Meliodas can even blitz when he gets cut open;
68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f637639565a5255644e374c3445413d3d2d313035373436313238342e313637373031663165336364303266623934333532303339373530332e676966

Also, Meliodas can use his clone to distract Asta. I am not going to assume that Asta just counters it easily with precog because Meliodas has great analytical thinking which he can use to crush Asta. See that cut? it's not fatal to Meliodas, for Asta, it is..

Asta with precog vs a dude with great analytical thinking + insane reflexes. Asta can predict whenever he wants, he ain't kicking Meliodas ass. His attacks would get countered as well. Asta could adapt but Meliodas too. On top of that, Mel can use his analytical skills to outsmart Asta or even predict what he is going to do when Mel does A or B.


Arnoldstone18 said:
So no, Asta's precognition and instinctive reaction-based swordsmanship from Yami is enough to counter whatever skill they have as long as he knows how Meldris will swing their sword. Meliodas' enhanced senses, I mean "analytical predictions" is not going to do anything against Asta's unpredictable fighting style that throws off sharp senses (Via the assimilation of Kiato's swordsmanship with Dance Magic)
Click to expand...
You want to know how Meliodas swings his sword?
Meliodas has many ways to swing his sword.. Easier for Meldris to counter Asta than the other way around. Unless you show scans.

Asta's fighting style is unpredictable? What are his feats?
The same can be said about the cunning Meliodas who gets only more murderous with each demon form.
for example Meliodas vs Escanor:
  1. knee blitz and a fatal strike
  2. Escanor going at Meliodas but Meliodas fatally blitzes
  3. another fatal attack
  4. Another fatal blitz
  5. Would this be predictable?
Asta simply gets killed here:
  1. Throws weapon
  2. bye hand and torso(in Asta's case)
this combo is simply hard to counter. if Asta just lifted his weapon to block and the moment the sword lands with force, Mel blitzes him.. I mean, his hand of all places..

Escanor punches him but gets countered while he is still in the attack

in this short fight, Meliodas did several blitzes and fatal attacks. if one of these lands on Asta, he chances lower drastically.
Arnoldstone18 said:
Second of all their swordplay is good enough to counter Asta's swordplay even with two swords, i will admit. However, Asta can easily counter via precognition till he inevitably adapts to their skills (Assuming the fight lasts that long to make Asta want to steal their skill) so their swordplay doesn't really matter.
Click to expand...

Nah, Asta has precog and adaptability, Meliodas is not far from that with his insane instinctive reflexes, analytical thinking, adaptability and unpredicatability. Future sight or something is different though. ON can't be countered with precog

if Asta;s precog gives him the win, show feats as to why.

Also, I am not good with terms like IR. I don't know what that is hehe
 
VsReferee said:
Funny debate lol

Asta's precognition is based on feeling the next moves of their opponents. Now, I really wonder how ki reading gives Asta the win against Meldris swordplay? Meliodas has such a fighting style that is seems like he has precog which isn't. He instinctively reacts and his reflexes are just insane.
most of the feats are from Mel (he has more feats, Zeldris scales to some point)

example 1:
Makai already explained this but without scans. Meliodas vs Golgius
Golgius is a dude who has invisibility magic, it looks like he teleports. Meliodas wasn't able to sense him and still blocked his weapon.
Meliodas protects Eli with his broken weapon while not knowing where Golgius would strike.
Later, as Makai said, Meliodas was able to analyse Golgius to the point that he knew where he would stand in a house where Meliodas was "hiding". Meliodas already had cut the floor where Golgius got trapped.

Does Asta have better reaction feat? Meliodas already had insane reaction without being able to read ki. My point is: Meliodas has insane reflexes. He would even react to Asta's counters with precog.
Does asta have better analytical skill also?

Not convinced yet?

example 2:
Meliodas was fighting against Drole when he got blitzed from a blind spot. Gloxinia didn't notice anything WHILE and after he blitzed Mel. That's an another Insane instinctive reflex from Mel. He also fought 2 commandments who were relative in power. How exactly is ki reading preventing Asta from getting blitzed when he is still in the moment of attack (while the attack actually lands)?

Meliodas can even blitz when he gets cut open;
68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f637639565a5255644e374c3445413d3d2d313035373436313238342e313637373031663165336364303266623934333532303339373530332e676966

Also, Meliodas can use his clone to distract Asta. I am not going to assume that Asta just counters it easily with precog because Meliodas has great analytical thinking which he can use to crush Asta. See that cut? it's not fatal to Meliodas, for Asta, it is..

Asta with precog vs a dude with great analytical thinking + insane reflexes. Asta can predict whenever he wants, he ain't kicking Meliodas ass. His attacks would get countered as well. Asta could adapt but Meliodas too. On top of that, Mel can use his analytical skills to outsmart Asta or even predict what he is going to do when Mel does A or B.



You want to know how Meliodas swings his sword?
Meliodas has many ways to swing his sword.. Easier for Meldris to counter Asta than the other way around. Unless you show scans.

Asta's fighting style is unpredictable? What are his feats?
The same can be said about the cunning Meliodas who gets only more murderous with each demon form.
for example Meliodas vs Escanor:
  1. knee blitz and a fatal strike
  2. Escanor going at Meliodas but Meliodas fatally blitzes
  3. another fatal attack
  4. Another fatal blitz
  5. Would this be predictable?
Asta simply gets killed here:
  1. Throws weapon
  2. bye hand and torso(in Asta's case)
this combo is simply hard to counter. if Asta just lifted his weapon to block and the moment the sword lands with force, Mel blitzes him.. I mean, his hand of all places..

Escanor punches him but gets countered while he is still in the attack

in this short fight, Meliodas did several blitzes and fatal attacks. if one of these lands on Asta, he chances lower drastically.


Nah, Asta has precog and adaptability, Meliodas is not far from that with his insane instinctive reflexes, analytical thinking, adaptability and unpredicatability. Future sight or something is different though. ON can't be countered with precog

if Asta;s precog gives him the win, show feats as to why.

Also, I am not good with terms like IR. I don't know what that is hehe
Click to expand...
Most of the feats you used aren’t even close to be his best feats and the AM vs Escanor fight isn’t really a skill fight for Meli since He has the upper hands in stats

Meli predicting analysing and countering 3 différent styles From ennemies on par with him is far more impressive

Meli instantly learning and upgrading King’s magic is a good feat

Meli adapting to purgatory where senses are irrelevant as discussed and accepted in the new hax thread:
Resistance to senses manipulation (In purgatory the concept of senses is completely irrelevant yet they adapted to it)
Click to expand...
Throwing off something that is irrelevant to him is useless basically

Just showing him killing people isn’t really needed

Also you need to talk more about ON Which is already a Nice counter to their whole kits

I already talked about their regen Speedster too might have told them that the regen weakness was gone in these forms

Talked about their AP advantage

The amps

etc…

But i disagree with how you used some of the « skill feats »

Good luck With all of this and thanks for putting in efforts ❤️
 
☹️ You’ve got to be kidding me… Anyway guess you’re going to leave me to deal with this.
 
And he’s repeating claims that I’ve already debunked…

this is going to be a long debate.
 
VsReferee said:
Asta's precognition is based on feeling the next moves of their opponents. Now, I really wonder how ki reading gives Asta the win against Meldris swordplay? Meliodas has such a fighting style that is seems like he has precog which isn't. He instinctively reacts and his reflexes are just insane.
most of the feats are from Mel (he has more feats, Zeldris scales to some point)

example 1:
Makai already explained this but without scans. Meliodas vs Golgius
Golgius is a dude who has invisibility magic, it looks like he teleports. Meliodas wasn't able to sense him and still blocked his weapon.
Meliodas protects Eli with his broken weapon while not knowing where Golgius would strike.
Later, as Makai said, Meliodas was able to analyse Golgius to the point that he knew where he would stand in a house where Meliodas was "hiding". Meliodas already had cut the floor where Golgius got trapped.

Does Asta have better reaction feat? Meliodas already had insane reaction without being able to read ki. My point is: Meliodas has insane reflexes. He would even react to Asta's counters with precog.
Does asta have better analytical skill also?

Not convinced yet?
Click to expand...


Asta's precognition is reading the life force of the opponents and reacting before they make their move.

Asta has fast reflexes as he is capable of blocking dozens of attacks by himself into a whirlwind, leaving no openings. He has also adapted to a barrage of fireballs that turn invisible halfway through and appear elsewhere, he did this in mere moments. The result is better than your first example because Asta had multiple invisible turning targets to deal with.

Golgius obviously can't hit a target in his invisible state, so Meliodas reacts to him as soon as he or his weapons appear. Asta has done something better with a continuous barrage of attacks as stated already


So unless you want Asta to have a better form of Analytical prediction then I recommend you abandon that claim. Its just fast reflexes, I don't even think its enhanced senses anymore the more I look at it. The pig even has better senses in that scene.


VsReferee said:
Meliodas was fighting against Drole when he got blitzed from a blind spot. Gloxinia didn't notice anything WHILE and after he blitzed Mel. That's an another Insane instinctive reflex from Mel. He also fought 2 commandments who were relative in power. How exactly is ki reading preventing Asta from getting blitzed when he is still in the moment of attack (while the attack actually lands)?

Meliodas can even blitz when he gets cut open;
68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f637639565a5255644e374c3445413d3d2d313035373436313238342e313637373031663165336364303266623934333532303339373530332e676966

Also, Meliodas can use his clone to distract Asta. I am not going to assume that Asta just counters it easily with precog because Meliodas has great analytical thinking which he can use to crush Asta. See that cut? it's not fatal to Meliodas, for Asta, it is..

Asta with precog vs a dude with great analytical thinking + insane reflexes. Asta can predict whenever he wants, he ain't kicking Meliodas ass. His attacks would get countered as well. Asta could adapt but Meliodas too. On top of that, Mel can use his analytical skills to outsmart Asta or even predict what he is going to do when Mel does A or B.
Click to expand...

Speed is equalized,

Meliodas doesn't have analytical predictions as extensively explained earlier,

Asta's precognition allows Asta to react faster.

VsReferee said:
You want to know how Meliodas swings his sword?
Meliodas has many ways to swing his sword.. Easier for Meldris to counter Asta than the other way around. Unless you show scans.

Asta's fighting style is unpredictable? What are his feats?
The same can be said about the cunning Meliodas who gets only more murderous with each demon form.
for example Meliodas vs Escanor:
  1. knee blitz and a fatal strike
  2. Escanor going at Meliodas but Meliodas fatally blitzes
  3. another fatal attack
  4. Another fatal blitz
  5. Would this be predictable?
Asta simply gets killed here:
  1. Throws weapon
  2. bye hand and torso(in Asta's case)
this combo is simply hard to counter. if Asta just lifted his weapon to block and the moment the sword lands with force, Mel blitzes him.. I mean, his hand of all places..

Escanor punches him but gets countered while he is still in the attack

in this short fight, Meliodas did several blitzes and fatal attacks. if one of these lands on Asta, he chances lower drastically.

Nah, Asta has precog and adaptability, Meliodas is not far from that with his insane instinctive reflexes, analytical thinking, adaptability and unpredicatability. Future sight or something is different though. ON can't be countered with precog

if Asta;s precog gives him the win, show feats as to why.

Also, I am not good with terms like IR. I don't know what that is hehe
Click to expand...

Speed is equalized

Therefore feats are pretty mid and... predictable.

Makai64100 said:
Meli predicting analysing and countering 3 différent styles From ennemies on par with him is far more impressive
Click to expand...

Predictable fighting styles.

Ngl NNT needs actual fighting styles with actual perks like BC and not just "my fighting style negs this fighting style"

Makai64100 said:
Meli instantly learning and upgrading King’s magic is a good feat
Click to expand...

No idea what this is and why its relevant
Makai64100 said:
Meli adapting to purgatory where senses are irrelevant as discussed and accepted in the new hax thread:
Throwing off something that is irrelevant to him is useless basically

Just showing him killing people isn’t really needed

Also you need to talk more about ON Which is already a Nice counter to their whole kits

I already talked about their regen Speedster too might have told them that the regen weakness was gone in these forms

Talked about their AP advantage
Click to expand...

Resistance to sense manipulation looks good if accepted, send a link to the feat.

AP gap is small and easily surpassed

Asta negs ON because Darkness is magic that doesn't drain power which is one of the reasons why it is unnatural. It also comes from a magical demon's physiology.
Asta also negs their attempts to nullify Yuno jsyk.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Asta's precognition is reading the life force of the opponents and reacting before they make their move.

Asta has fast reflexes as he is capable of blocking dozens of attacks by himself into a whirlwind, leaving no openings. He has also adapted to a barrage of fireballs that turn invisible halfway through and appear elsewhere, he did this in mere moments. The result is better than your first example because Asta had multiple invisible turning targets to deal with.

Golgius obviously can't hit a target in his invisible state, so Meliodas reacts to him as soon as he or his weapons appear. Asta has done something better with a continuous barrage of attacks as stated already


So unless you want Asta to have a better form of Analytical prediction then I recommend you abandon that claim. Its just fast reflexes, I don't even think its enhanced senses anymore the more I look at it. The pig even has better senses in that scene.




Speed is equalized,

Meliodas doesn't have analytical predictions as extensively explained earlier,

Asta's precognition allows Asta to react faster.



Speed is equalized

Therefore feats are pretty mid and... predictable.



Predictable fighting styles.

Ngl NNT needs actual fighting styles with actual perks like BC and not just "my fighting style negs this fighting style"



No idea what this is and why its relevant


Resistance to sense manipulation looks good if accepted, send a link to the feat.

AP gap is small and easily surpassed

Asta negs ON because Darkness is magic that doesn't drain power which is one of the reasons why it is unnatural. It also comes from a magical demon's physiology.
Asta also negs their attempts to nullify Yuno jsyk.
Click to expand...
Look, show scans..otherwise I dont care
 
VsReferee said:
Look, show scans..otherwise I dont care
Click to expand...

Funny, thought you read BC, or wait did you just nitpick a chapter and run with it?

Asta's precognition is based on reading the life force of the opponents.

Asta has fast reflexes as he is capable of blocking dozens of attacks by himself into a whirlwind, leaving no openings. He has also adapted to a barrage of fireballs that turn invisible halfway through and appear elsewhere, in mere moments when he couldn't predict a single one. The result is better than your first example because Asta had multiple fireballs that bypass precognition and on the third try he was able to improve his senses and block so many of them.

Golgius obviously can't hit a target in his invisible state, so Meliodas reacts to him as soon as he or his weapons appear probably because he is faster than Golgius. Meanwhile, Asta can now hit a plethora of fireballs that were initially faster than him, too small to hit and it bypassed his precog on top of it. The pig could even pick up on Golgius' invisibility.
Click to expand...


Now with this you should know that:

Asta's predictions and senses can constantly improve in battle.
Asta has fast reflexes
Asta has adapt to situations

More info about Asta's swordsmaship abilities can be found here


In conclusion, Asta is more skilled and he takes them on and beats them up with anti-magic.
We good?
 
Yuno tbh isn't doing much here, this'll likely quickly turning into Meli and Zel against Asta, unless Asta puts extra effort into keeping Yuno going, though this is just from the top of my head, not sure how Black clover's stuff plays in, since I didn't read it to scale things
 
The_Legendary_Vin said:
Yuno tbh isn't doing much here, this'll likely quickly turning into Meli and Zel against Asta, unless Asta puts extra effort into keeping Yuno going, though this is just from the top of my head, not sure how Black clover's stuff plays in, since I didn't read it to scale things
Click to expand...

Yuno can pseudo-amp Asta's speed and momentum with wind magic, and provide assistance with Mana Zone attacks. Asta can keep Yuno from being nullified since all the Power null Meldris has is magical. Unfortunately, I don't have time to build a proper layer for Yuno so I'll just say Asta protects him for now.
 
Epsilon_R said:
oui mdr
Click to expand...
Ptdrrr jure 😭 un compatriote tu diras à ton pote que les ténèbres des démons ne sont pas de la magie par pitié ça devient lourd 3 pages qu’il se répète je suis fané

Il a toujours pas non plus saisi qu’ON est litteralement des coups d’épées 😹😭
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Funny, thought you read BC, or wait did you just nitpick a chapter and run with it?




Now with this you should know that:

Asta's predictions and senses can constantly improve in battle.
Asta has fast reflexes
Asta has adapt to situations

More info about Asta's swordsmaship abilities can be found here


In conclusion, Asta is more skilled and he takes them on and beats them up with anti-magic.
We good?
Click to expand...
You didn’t understand fully how ON works Here i would like you to make me a description of What ON is so everyone Here can see how you percieve it

i don’t want to repeat things too much
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Yuno can pseudo-amp Asta's speed and momentum with wind magic, and provide assistance with Mana Zone attacks. Asta can keep Yuno from being nullified since all the Power null Meldris has is magical. Unfortunately, I don't have time to build a proper layer for Yuno so I'll just say Asta protects him for now.
Click to expand...
How would he protect him against a feeling 😭😹 and He would protect him From a nullification that has hundreds of meters to tens of km of range by Using a nullification 😭😹 their hate isn’t magic

By the way darkness isn’t magic either it’s their body as i’ve repeated like 50 times now it is treated completely differently than magic or their other abilities
 
The_Legendary_Vin said:
Yuno tbh isn't doing much here, this'll likely quickly turning into Meli and Zel against Asta, unless Asta puts extra effort into keeping Yuno going, though this is just from the top of my head, not sure how Black clover's stuff plays in, since I didn't read it to scale things
Click to expand...
Tbh Asta won’t even survive ON for 5 mins He can’t help Yuno by nulling a feeling Using his own powernull (it Would null him and if he give him space then NE would still null said space)

ON is Zeldris moving his sword and can be enhanced with another of their body parts that is non natural and not considered as magic

If we consider their darkness as Magic then their body IS magic Which isn’t the case

At this point Arnold needs to ask the author to rewrite NNT 😭

He the daddy and has Nice toes but rn he’s annoying

anyway idc i found a french daddy Here
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Funny, thought you read BC, or wait did you just nitpick a chapter and run with it?




Now with this you should know that:

Asta's predictions and senses can constantly improve in battle.
Asta has fast reflexes
Asta has adapt to situations

More info about Asta's swordsmaship abilities can be found here


In conclusion, Asta is more skilled and he takes them on and beats them up with anti-magic.
We good?
Click to expand...
Daddy 🥵

Speedster said this and i don’t have Time to search for everything but i’ll copy paste What He said for other NNT supporters to search said panel anyway He is right on darkness not being magical
 
Makai64100 said:
You didn’t understand fully how ON works Here i would like you to make me a description of What ON is so everyone Here can see how you percieve it

i don’t want to repeat things too much
Click to expand...

SIGH


Makai64100 said:
Tbh Asta won’t even survive ON for 5 mins He can’t help Yuno by nulling a feeling Using his own powernull (it Would null him and if he give him space then NE would still null said space)

ON is Zeldris moving his sword and can be enhanced with another of their body parts that is non natural and not considered as magic

If we consider their darkness as Magic then their body IS magic Which isn’t the case

At this point Arnold needs to ask the author to rewrite NNT 😭

He the daddy and has Nice toes but rn he’s annoying

anyway idc i found a french daddy Here
Click to expand...

No I think the author did a perfectly good job


IMG_8511.jpg



Makai64100 said:
Here they can use their darkness with their magic being sealed by the goddess seal still
Click to expand...

Don’t tell me that this is the only feat used to wank manipulating darkness not being magic.

Darkness is magic.

Also the scan you send Gaaland never uses his magic and he’s the only one with 0 magic.

Oh, Zeldris and the others still have some magic that’s why he said they should take it easy. Not to mention the scan was way before Galaand’s magic was even measured.
 
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