Meliodas and Zeldris vs Asta and Yuno

[Makai641001]

They literally don't but okay.

It’s okay It add skill feats to Zel and Mel then
Skills are irrelevant in this MU anyway since Full react would chop their head off anyway Zel alone would take on Both
And if they try to flee Piety kicks in

Sorry for Arnold tho if He is upset but He needs to stop defending his verse when he have nothing left He didn’t even change his vote

 

[Majinere566]

I don't know if this statement can be used for a skill feat but here's this

 

[Makai641001]

I don't know if this statement can be used for a skill feat but here's this

Honestly do you think we need it + idk if it would be skills it refers to power

We should vote rn they have no counters to Full react skills are irrelevant Mel and Zel have better AP
DM2 is even more of a dickslaping
Better skills (i mean they’ve lost the skills debate to Natsu We won it)
Possibly better LS in these forms
Asta can’t null
Yuno gets nulled
Their head is getting sliced Mel doesn’t need to move He can create himself a darkness bed and sleep

 

[Majinere566]

Honestly do you think we need it + idk if it would be skills it refers to power

It does mention 10× the martial abilities of a holy knight

 

[Makai641001]

It does mention 10× the martial abilities of a holy knight

Oh yeah i forgot that part 1 more skill feat then

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Also There were no layer discussion for Anti magic that’s litteraly the point i’m making y’all said He would supersede layers without layers…

It seems like you don’t even care about how big it will be. Okay here is a quick one off the top of my head.

1. characters with large amounts of magic power neg spells via aura
2. characters with mana skin resist power nullification and
3. Mana Zone has been shown to negate magic and boost the effects of spells.

Now let me start with Yuno

Yuno


Noelle < Rookie Magic Knights < Leopold < Finral < Yuno = Experienced Magic Knights < Yuno Mana Zone < Noelle Elf arc < Yuno Elf Arc mana skin < Yuno Elf < Yuno Mana Zone amped Mana Skin resistance

Now show me Meliodas' and Zeldris' layers. Let’s see how he’s above this.


ON THE OTHER HAND

Now I will not waste my time for Asta, I will simply copy and paste one of the layers ive mentioned on this wiki, then I’ll simplify it so some of you can read it. Anti Magic is a hax that supersedes all layered magic resistance to power nullification in BC.

Exhibit A - Zenon's power nullification resistance added Belzeebub and Sister Lily as a cherry on top. The greater the magic power the greater the levels of Mana Skin. Let’s begin.

Sister Lily Mana Skin >/= Belzeebub Mana Skin (resistance) >>> Post TS > Yuno (Resistance; Loved by Mana) > Devil Zenon Mana Skin (resistance) > 100% Devil Zenon (resistance; bypassed Langris’ Manazone) > Langris (Mana Zone resistance; bypassed Spatial Domination) > 99% (each % grants phenomenal magic power; Mana Skin resistance) > 98% > 97%…. This is becoming redundant.. so I’ll stop.

Anti Magic bypasses all of that as long as Asta can cover it with enough anti magic. Ive already explained that Black Mode Asta has enough AM to cover large magic power with demon destroyer. In base the sword alone took care of Megicula, the ruler of the underworld. That’s the same Base sword he has in this Key. Etc.

I know restricted Meliodas and Zeldris isn’t going to resist Anti Magic. So don’t even bother.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

ngl I’d never have come back here if not for some of my friends watching this thread telling me to come back.

time to get serious.

 

[Makai641001]

It seems like you don’t even care about how big it will be. Okay here is a quick one off the top of my head.

Weren’t you supposed to quit ?

1. characters with large amounts of magic power neg spells via aura
2. characters with mana skin resist power nullification and
3. Mana Zone has been shown to negate magic and boost the effects of spells.

It works the same with the power lvls in NNT as stated by Merlin the resistances grow with the power lvl

Now let me start with Yuno

Yuno


Noelle < Rookie Magic Knights < Leopold < Finral < Yuno = Experienced Magic Knights < Yuno Mana Zone < Noelle Elf arc < Yuno Elf Arc mana skin < Yuno Elf < Yuno Mana Zone amped Mana Skin resistance

Base humans < normal knights < Apprentice Holy knights < Crystal ranks < Emerald ranks < Ruby ranks < Sapphyre ranks < Platinum ranks < Diamond ranks < equiped Diamond ranks ≈ Base BOS Mel < Ash Gray Hendrikson < Dm1 Mel < Wrath Mel < DM 2 Mel < Galand ≈ Unsealed Base Mel < Unsealed DM1 Mel < other people i don’t have the patience to cite = Unsealed DM2 Mel < PR Base Mel < PR DM1 Mel < PR DM2 Mel < AM Mel < Ludo’s crystal technique < Zel’s God < DK < Base PP Mel true magic < DK Mel < PP DM1 Mel < True body Dk Zel≈ DM2 Mel < AM Mel < TMF Mel < DK brit

I didn’t even cite the difference between every character in PL that is phenomenal even With a difference of a few PL points
Or rage power that enhance the NE

Stronger characters resist magic to the point of nullifying it they even resist and null their own attacks multiplied sometimes
I can cite Gawain nullifying Pelle flames
Merlin’s statement
Escanor resisting abilities by getting overall stronger and nullifying them Merlin resisting Cuzack’s powernull by strengthening
Hendy nullifying Gil’s magic

Each forms i used have superior resistances to magic as a whole as stated by Merlin with the Skelletons that null magic based on NE as an exemple or are shown completely nullifying other things and getting nullified

Now show me Meliodas' and Zeldris' layers. Let’s see how he’s above this.

Done

ON THE OTHER HAND

Now I will not waste my time for Asta, I will simply copy and paste one of the layers ive mentioned on this wiki, then I’ll simplify it so some of you can read it. Anti Magic is a hax that supersedes all layered magic resistance to power nullification in BC.

« In BC » you need layers then in crossverse

Exhibit A - Zenon's power nullification resistance added Belzeebub and Sister Lily as a cherry on top. The greater the magic power the greater the levels of Mana Skin. Let’s begin.

Sister Lily Mana Skin >/= Belzeebub Mana Skin (resistance) >>> Post TS > Yuno (Resistance; Loved by Mana) > Devil Zenon Mana Skin (resistance) > 100% Devil Zenon (resistance; bypassed Langris’ Manazone) > Langris (Mana Zone resistance; bypassed Spatial Domination) > 99% (each % grants phenomenal magic power; Mana Skin resistance) > 98% > 97%…. This is becoming redundant.. so I’ll stop.

Would each % null the other like NE null from form to form? Could you provide an evidence please ?

Anti Magic bypasses all of that as long as Asta can cover it with enough anti magic. Ive already explained that Black Mode Asta has enough AM to cover large magic power with demon destroyer. In base the sword alone took care of Megicula, the ruler of the underworld. That’s the same Base sword he has in this Key. Etc.

If it’s based on the quantification of energy he would need to output overtime most of these layers are fodder we could do the same with NE and rage or with Escanor’s power lvl augmentation every seconds

I know restricted Meliodas and Zeldris isn’t going to resist Anti Magic. So don’t even bother.

They are anyway not using magic But DESTROYER MAGIC TYPE which allow them to use Natural éléments and their darkness to fight

I bother… that’s the point of a discussion Yuno layers are useful Asta’s aren’t
And Yuno doesn’t have enough at all

So as I said earlier do you have any arguments going in the direction of Asta and Yuno except a sword slash that doesn’t have enough range and is automatically countered?

 

[azontr]

All this talk about layers and yet I have seen not a single scan provided from either side of the debate.

 

[Makai641001]

ngl I’d never have come back here if not for some of my friends watching this thread telling me to come back.

Friends?? I don’t have that

time to get serious.

Yayyyy Time for me to see actual feats going for Asta and Yuno
Yuno still gets nulled
Asta still can’t null
Ki sensing is irrelevant
ON still attract and IR their ass
DM2 ON is laughing in dickslaping
Mel still don’t need to wake up from his nap

 

[Makai641001]

All this talk about layers and yet I have seen not a single scan provided from either side of the debate.

NE nullify magic the stronger the NE the better the effects
DM2 Mel was trapped inside the COD and couldn’t destroy it or null it due to the nature of his attacks
Once in AM he completely nullified it making it explode on the process due to the surge of evil emanating From him
AM is considered a 2x amp going with Tristan feat of cutting the COD Using a 2x amp is it by définition a similar or inférior amp to every other form in his kit

Anyway They are destroyer type users
So they can’t be nulled by Asta tho they can null Yuno

 

[Makai641001]

Also i won’t be answering as often as this week end since i have a HTML/CSS/Web marketing/Web design formation going on during weeks
I will have very little time for this thread so don’t worry if i don’t answer for a few hours or days i’ll come back

Sorry for the inconvenience

PS: We should’ve voted for at least 2 days rn

 

[Tatsumi504]

@Makai64100 @Arnoldstone18 can both of you stop? This is starting to look like some 6yr olds arguing "muh fiction is greater than yours"

 

[Majinere566]

All this talk about layers and yet I have seen not a single scan provided from either side of the debate.

Thank you

 

[Majinere566]

God I hate NNT vs BC battles so much

 

[Makai641001]

@Makai64100 @Arnoldstone18 can both of you stop? This is starting to look like some 6yr olds arguing "muh fiction is greater than yours"

We are arguing back and forth for like 2 days and i asked for anything they could do against Zel nobody answered

I do agree with you but am i supposed to concede cuz he won’t give any argument ? I don’t think so

Who do you vote for let’s finish this

I vote for Meliodas

God I hate NNT vs BC battles so much

Same

 

[Arnoldstone18]

@Makai64100 @Arnoldstone18 can both of you stop? This is starting to look like some 6yr olds arguing "muh fiction is greater than yours"

im sitting here trying to figure out how I’m supposed to convince a guy that resistance to magic isn’t resistance to anti magic.

I was already compiling scans

Anyway They are destroyer type users
So they can’t be nulled by Asta tho they can null Yuno

JUST LOOK AT THIS… HE EXPECTS US TO UNDERSTAND JAPANESE?

 

[Tatsumi504]

I honestly can't vote. The power null issue is a hindrance. Trying to scale asta's power null with layers is just impossible.

 

[Makai641001]

Clearly Here is my point:

We are turning around layers that are irrelevant since Asta can’t null natural éléments

He gave Yuno’s layers that aren’t enough basically which means basically he gets nulled

He gave the Precog argument that gets nulled by Full react

He gave Black meteor as an argument and i countered it already

He gave skills as an argument but couldn’t even compete against Natsu in terms of skills (Mel won against Natsu) + didn’t send anything good + skills aren’t relevant in this MU

I asked to vote and finish this since There is nothing left going for Asta and Yuno

im sitting here trying to figure out how I’m supposed to convince a guy that resistance to magic isn’t resistance to anti magic.

I provided scans showing how it null magic and amp resistances to magic too you are cherry picking at this point

JUST LOOK AT THIS… HE EXPECTS US TO UNDERSTAND JAPANESE?

You can find this exact panel on internet and There is a whole wiki that explain that i only have the Jap panel and already gave a translation

 

[Makai641001]

I honestly can't vote. The power null issue is a hindrance. Trying to scale asta's power null with layers is just impossible.

Then let’s abandon the layers

Asta can’t null natural elements

 

[Tatsumi504]

im sitting here trying to figure out how I’m supposed to convince a guy that resistance to magic isn’t resistance to anti magic.

Shouldn't that be Resistance to power null instead? If their just resistant to magic then it shouldn't count, unless it's magic that has power null.

JUST LOOK AT THIS… HE EXPECTS US TO UNDERSTAND JAPANESE?

Wtf?

 

[Panache_x]

In BC » you need layers then in crossverse

Anti magic is the very fundamental opposition to Magic
How is Layers of Magic resistance and Nullification going to resist the very energy that is built to directly oppose it?
U'll need to provide scans of them resisting such
And No. Don't tag it "in BC
BC only depicted it accurately
There are various Resistance to Magic Nullification in BC but Anti Magic isn't one counted as such. It simply exist in opposition to all form of Magic.
The ability to resist Ur magic being nullified is as a result of Ur Magic itself. Might be more magic, control or any other systematic Manipulation
Anti Magic is there to bypass all that

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I honestly can't vote. The power null issue is a hindrance. Trying to scale asta's power null with layers is just impossible.

He wants me to drop a verse wide layer.

The number of characters I have to layer

and we have peasants, commoners, nobels, royals, witches, elves, demons, low ranking devils, mid ranking devils, high ranking devils, SUPREME RANKING DEVILS, RULERS OF THE UNDERWORLD, THE KING HIMSELF LUCIFERO, PALADINS, LUCIUS.

I’m begging NNT fans to not put me through this

 

[Makai641001]

Anti magic is the very fundamental opposition to Magic
How is Layers of Magic resistance and Nullification going to resist the very energy that is built to directly oppose it?
U'll need to provide scans of them resisting such
And No. Don't tag it "in BC
BC only depicted it accurately
There are various Resistance to Magic Nullification in BC but Anti Magic isn't one counted as such. It simply exist in opposition to all form of Magic.
The ability to resist Ur magic being nullified is as a result of Ur Magic itself. Might be more magic, control or any other systematic Manipulation
Anti Magic is there to bypass all that

NE null magic can you read please ?

 

[Makai641001]

He wants me to drop a verse wide layer.

The number of characters I have to layer

and we have peasants, commoners, nobels, royals, witches, elves, demons, low ranking devils, mid ranking devils, high ranking devils, SUPREME RANKING DEVILS, RULERS OF THE UNDERWORLD, THE KING HIMSELF LUCIFERO, PALADINS, LUCIUS.

I’m begging NNT fans to not put me through this

Don’t put yourself through this especially when Asta can’t null natural elements

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Asta can’t null natural elements

True magic says hello

 

[Makai641001]

Shouldn't that be Resistance to power null instead? If their just resistant to magic then it shouldn't count, unless it's magic that has power null.

NE has shown power null that’s the entire point of the argument

Wtf?

Y’all wouldn’t trust a translation + Using a translation app isn’t that difficult + i explained what’s written like 10 times now

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Shouldn't that be Resistance to power null instead? If their just resistant to magic then it shouldn't count, unless it's magic that has power null.

those with larger magic power exert their aura to neg spells and the ability of others to cast it. Mana Zone can disturb the mana to nullify spells, even binding magic etc. there are a lot of power null spells and resistance to power null by just being stronger.

Then you have ******* Anti Magic saying **** you to these layers

 

[Makai641001]

True magic says hello

We don’t use their true magic form look at the OP

 

[Makai641001]

those with larger magic power exert their aura to neg spells and the ability of others to cast it. Mana Zone can disturb the mana to nullify spells, even binding magic etc. there are a lot of power null spells and resistance to power null by just being stronger.

Then you have ******* Anti Magic saying **** you to these layers

Let’s say **** to these layers they don’t use magic for the 100th time

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Let’s say **** to these layers they don’t use magic for the 100th time

let me rant in peace


okay I’m done.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So where were we,
I have to go back and read the chat

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

We don’t use their true magic form look at the OP

True Magic​

At its peak, Mana Method focuses the mana of nature and generates the real element, known as True Magic. For example, Lightning Magic becomes True Lightning Magic and generates real lightning

Asta can’t null natural elements

Completely not true with True magic being a thing in BC, also, don´t assume things, ty

 

[Makai641001]

It is really annoying that most of the points i make are litteraly ignored or strawmanned

shows powernull + talked about how it works for days

« You didn’t show powernull »

Show skill feats

« What are the skill feats »

*Explain destroyer type + provide scan *

« A japanese panel wtf do better »

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It is really annoying that most of the points i make are litteraly ignored or strawmanned

shows powernull + talked about how it works for days

« You didn’t show powernull »

Show skill feats

« What are the skill feats »

*Explain destroyer type + provide scan *

« A japanese panel wtf do better »

Relax let me catch up, I had 100% focus on power null… now I want to focus on other things.

And about the real elements that caught my eye scrolling up: Anti Magic negs True magic (a type of magic that manipulates natural mana to cast real elements)

 

[Makai641001]

True Magic​

At its peak, Mana Method focuses the mana of nature and generates the real element, known as True Magic. For example, Lightning Magic becomes True Lightning Magic and generates real lightning


Completely not true with True magic being a thing in BC, also, don´t assume things, ty

« by using runes to channel natural mana into a spell and to create real lightning and electricity. »

it’s done through the use of a special mana it’s not a natural force it immitate natural forces From What i see

+ ON ain’t natural and ain’t magic

 

[Makai641001]

Relax let me catch up, I had 100% focus on power null… now I want to focus on other things.

And about the real elements that caught my eye scrolling up: Anti Magic negs True magic (a type of magic that manipulates natural mana to cast real elements)

As i said it’s through the use of a special mana
Asta null mana
ON ain’t natural and ain’t magical

 

[Makai641001]

I’m going a sleep see you i’ll try to answer tomorrow

 

[Arnoldstone18]

SKILL

Asta is adept with 5 swordsmanship styles and abilities. He is also a dual wielder. And we all know about Asta's ability to mimic magic swordsmanship with his body.

1. He is capable of being unpredictable via Kiato's swordsmanship
2. He s capable of predicting moves and instinctively making moves before the opponent makes them via Yami's swordsmanship.
3. He enhanced his dual swords play with Licht's swordsmanship.
4. He also has fighting styles taken from Mars, and Fanzel who have years of experience, and one of them is a renowned swordsman teacher.


From what I see in this thread and the little i know, Meliodas and Zeldris completely dominate Asta's number 4.

Are Meldris more skilled with swordplay? **** yes.

Are Meldris more skilled than skilled dual swordsmen? Maybe, A high enough raw skill can counter this one.

Are Meldris more skilled than a swordsman who predicts moves and instinctively react? If not then that's Asta's advantage against their skill since he can simply predict their moves and act accordingly

Are Meldris more skilled with swordsmen that throw senses off with their moves? If not then Asta has an advantage in this skill department too.

Note: Asta's accelerated development applies to his skills too. He already has layers with his prediction-based swordsmanship. He also has miscellaneous skills like Damage reduction from Kiato, who was capable of reducing the damage from an attack that can one-shot him. Asta also has his own creative original skills.

As i said it’s through the use of a special mana
Asta null mana
ON ain’t natural and ain’t magical

Then what the hell is ON?

Edit: You're probably going to say it's darkness energy.

Asta nullifies God, assuming it is already on, and Yuno fires an attack from within ON via Mana Zone.

Also, you admitted that Destroyers manipulate natural elements via magic right? That's True Magic. Asta negs it.

 

[Makai641001]

SKILL

Asta is adept with 5 swordsmanship styles and abilities. He is also a dual wielder. And we all know about Asta's ability to mimic magic swordsmanship with his body.

Type of weapon≠skills
Copying swordsmanship is cool

1. He is capable of being unpredictable via Kiato's swordsmanship

Ok

2. He s capable of predicting moves and instinctively making moves before the opponent makes them via Yami's swordsmanship.

Pretty much an IR feat Which Zel and Mel have

3. He enhanced his dual swords play with Licht's swordsmanship.

K is it possible to give actual feats just saying He got better isn’t really good i don’t even know What to answer

Edit: it sounds rude sorry
I would like feats not Just « … got better »
Also AD feats are cool but you’ve already used so much
I understand the point tho

4. He also has fighting styles taken from Mars, and Fanzel who have years of experience, and one of them is a renowned swordsman teacher.

Ok so most of these are about copying
and adapting Which Meli does too copying a technique He just saw and upgrading it further (Trillion Dark)
Meli and Zel can adapt and cross swords with Arthur that has comp Excalibur wielders they can recognise and adapt to swordstyles parying surprise shots etc…

From what I see in this thread and the little i know, Meliodas and Zeldris completely dominate Asta's number 4.

Yeah

Are Meldris more skilled with swordplay? **** yes.

Yeah

Are Meldris more skilled than skilled dual swordsmen? Maybe, A high enough raw skill can counter this one.

They learned From a dual swordsman and would easily beat his ass

Are Meldris more skilled than a swordsman who predicts moves and instinctively react?

They do the same and are more skilled so yeah (I explained how Mel can predict entire mouvements patterns to trap opps and their IR earlier) + Excalibur contains a blind swordsman Soul that instinctively counter attacks yet they are stated to be so superior it wouldn’t be possible for the masters to cross swords with them

If not then that's Asta's advantage against their skill since he can simply predict their moves and act accordingly

He can predict ON as much as He wants it won’t change shit even bos base Mel could predict patterns of movements
Mel could predict movements and timings for every FC in NNT

Are Meldris more skilled with swordsmen that throw senses off with their moves? If not then Asta has an advantage in this skill department too.

Mel fought someone he couldn’t sense and predicted his whole patterns of movements

They have fought in purgatory where senses are irrelevant and doesn’t rely on their senses anymore so yeah They take this too throwing their senses wasn’t an handicap for them (Now they don’t rely at all they have 6th sense)

Note: Asta's accelerated development applies to his skills too. He already has layers with his prediction-based swordsmanship. He also has miscellaneous skills like Damage reduction from Kiato, who was capable of reducing the damage from an attack that can one-shot him.

Idk for this one someone Here said it wasn’t a skill feat

But Meldris has AD too and Mel copied an attack an upgraded it in seconds

They can adapt to opps far faster and stronger than them

And outskill opps in 3v1 situations

FC in themselves are precision/timing/adaptation feats


Also they have way more versatile kits and exprience

Then what the hell is ON?

ON is Sword skills litteraly

Can be enhanced by A non Natural force that ain’t magical either it’s a component of their bodies they can use in their attacks too Here in this case ON drags the opps and Full React cut them instinctively once they are in range said range can extend with Darkness
Which basically means Zel is untouchable magic can’t affect him Physicals are deflected instinctively
People are attracted into his Full React
And he can basically amp it several times

Which means skills aren’t relevant Precog isn’t either
Speed isn’t either
The use of magic isn’t either

They could eventually try to flee from ON and get out of range which isn’t what they do in character from what I remember anyway the Range is of tens of meters to hundreds of meters
And trying to flee triggers Piety

I really gotta go now I’m gonna die tomorrow morning