Meliodas and Zeldris vs Asta and Yuno

[Makai641001]

I dont get it. If zeldris or Meliodas is having a physical battle with Asta (after seeing magic gets negated), how would his anti magic help if their bodies arent magical? If they were magical i would undestandbut even their amps arent magical.

Care to explain?

They Would be able to use magic they resist their own Negative energy…

Edit: BTW destroyer types use natural elements

 

[Epsilon_R]

No first I need the layers of NNT'S power null because last time the scaling wasn't even about layers of resistance but about powerscaling

 

[Tatsumi504]

No first I need the layers of NNT'S power null because last time the scaling wasn't even about layers of resistance but about powerscaling

Apparently their resistance and potency increased with the power scaling from what I've seen here

 

[Makai641001]

No first I need the layers of NNT'S power null because last time the scaling wasn't even about layers of resistance but about powerscaling

We already gave them and explained them i Also gave you a visible example with the DM2 to AM feat in the cocoon Meli DM2 negative energy couldn’t null the COD AM Meli could

 

[Makai641001]

Apparently their resistance and potency increased with the power scaling from what I've seen here

Yeah that’s basically the case for most of the hax in the verse their magic is a part of their PL meaning every facets of it will be greatly enhanced when they get stronger

-The more DM2 Meli was angry the more He was getting powerful the more the Resistance to magic/Powernull was getting stronger
-The more Escanor gets powerful the more His sun gets hot
-When they get stronger their hellblaze get stronger
-The stronger they are the more potent the poison they produce (Meland)
-The stronger they get the more their Negative energy gets stronger going From not being able to null attacks to completely render impossible any type of magic even teleportation or magics that doesn’t need to pass through the negative energy

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Apparently their resistance and potency increased with the power scaling from what I've seen here

Literally the same as black clover with aura, mana skin/zone and Anti magic.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Literally the same as black clover with aura, mana skin/zone and Anti magic.

Yeah, its now up to you guys to count how many layers they've gained.
I'm not up to date with NNT and I mostly read black clover for the story so I can't remember a lot of feats.

I'm usually surprised when you drop CRT's for stuff I didn't even notice while reading

 

[Epsilon_R]

We already gave them and explained them i Also gave you a visible example with the DM2 to AM feat in the cocoon Meli DM2 negative energy couldn’t null the COD AM Meli could

DM Meli Would nullify base Meli Resistance it’s what is called a layer any magic that bypassed their ability to nullify magic gets a layer my point still stands i gtg

This is the layers scaling?

 

[Makai641001]

This is the layers scaling?

No any demon form that supersedes the last one has negative energy capable to nullify magic to a greater extent DM2 to Assault Mode is an exemple of it
As Merlin explained in Corand the more the power lvl the more the resistances/Physicals etc… are amped having a drastic amp in your abilities due to a form isn’t simple powerscaling it is how it’s treated ask other supporters a list of the layers I can’t answer your questions now
I don’t really have time I already answer in another thread

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm usually surprised when you drop CRT's for stuff I didn't even notice while reading

People tell me this a lot. Well, to be fair I skim at my first read, I only go critical at my second read, and I have read black clover 6 times now.

Yeah, its now up to you guys to count how many layers they've gained.
I'm not up to date with NNT and I mostly read black clover for the story so I can't remember a lot of feats.

Okay, Alright then.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Amping your nullification by getting stronger is literally what Asta can do on top of the layers base Anti-Magic already starts with

 

[Makai641001]

Amping your nullification by getting stronger is literally what Asta can do on top of the layers base Anti-Magic already starts with

Then let’s count all of meli’s forms since the beginning and all of Asta’s form since the beginning (I won’t count I don’t have time for this neither do I have motivation for now )

 

[VsReferee]

interesting, looking forward to the layers

 

[Epsilon_R]

Then let’s count all of meli’s forms since the beginning and all of Asta’s form since the beginning (I won’t count I don’t have time for this neither do I have motivation for now )

That's not about forms though, even if we did that Mel would have Base, DM, DM2, AM and True Magic making it five layers at most

 

[Majinere566]

That's not about forms though, even if we did that Mel would have Base, DM, DM2, AM and True Magic making it five layers at most

More than that for forms

 

[Tatsumi504]

That's not about forms though, even if we did that Mel would have Base, DM, DM2, AM and True Magic making it five layers at most

There's still his base after he regains his power, then another DM after that then assault mode.

 

[Makai641001]

That's not about forms though, even if we did that Mel would have Base, DM, DM2, AM and True Magic making it five layers at most

It is tho since his negative energy would be amped the same way as From DM2 to AM

base < Dm1 < Wrath < DM1 amped < Base unsealed < DM1 Unsealed < DM2 unsealed < Base revived < DM1 revived < DM2 revived < AM < Base PP < DM1 PP < DM2 PP < AM PP < TMF PP

I might have forgotten some
I Also don’t have Time to think about the other layers in verse (other than Negative Energy)

 

[Tatsumi504]

It is tho since his negative energy would be amped the same way as From DM2 to AM

base < Dm1 < Wrath < DM1 amped < Base unsealed < DM1 Unsealed < DM2 unsealed < Base revived < DM1 revived < DM2 revived < AM < Base PP < DM1 PP < DM2 PP < AM PP < TMF PP

I might have forgotten some
I Also don’t have Time to think about the other layers in verse (other than Negative Energy)

Ah, so post purgatory counts as well?

 

[Epsilon_R]

These are not layers I've been telling you

 

[Makai641001]

Ah, so post purgatory counts as well?

Yeah i think (TMF is restricted tho)

These are not layers I've been telling you

It is as i stated earlier DM2 couldn’t null COD Assault Mode could instantly while being a amp similar to DM’s
It is counted as layers

 

[Tatsumi504]

These are not layers I've been telling you

They actually are because of the superiority between the Negative Energy in these states.

Also, does asta even have layers? As far as I know anti-magic is AP based.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Also, does asta even have layers? As far as I know anti-magic is AP based.

AP based? What does that mean?

 

[Majinere566]

Here we go again

 

[Makai641001]

AP based? What does that mean?

That profile pic tho

Might become a BC tard

Edit: Asta is sexier tho

 

[Tatsumi504]

AP based? What does that mean?

I don't mean AP as in AP, I meant the amount of magic. Like he needs anti-magic at least equal to what his opponent uses to completely nullify it

 

[Epsilon_R]

It is as i stated earlier DM2 couldn’t null COD Assault Mode could instantly while being a amp similar to DM’s
It is counted as layers

I wasn't clear. What I meant was the number of forms can't work as an indicator of layers because these types of layers depend on how much stronger you get and not just how many forms you have.

Basically you'd need to calc the power gap between the weakest form of Meliodas that has power null and the form used here

 

[Epsilon_R]

I don't mean AP as in AP, I meant the amount of magic. Like he needs anti-magic at least equal to what his opponent uses to completely nullify it

It works just like Meliodas's

 

[Tatsumi504]

It works just like Meliodas's

So why are you currently refuting meliodas layers?

 

[Epsilon_R]

So why are you currently refuting meliodas layers?

Because I for one, think that's not how layers should be counted. To me, you should only add a layer when the hax is actually shown to bypass the resistance and not just by using the "Bypassed by getting stronger so the layer increases each time I get stronger " logic.

If you think it's fine, then do that for Asta too because he can do the same exact shit.

 

[Makai641001]

I wasn't clear. What I meant was the number of forms can't work as an indicator of layers because these types of layers depend on how much stronger you get and not just how many forms you have.

Basically you'd need to calc the power gap between the weakest form of Meliodas that has power null and the form used here

The multiplier/Powergap is the exact same for pretty much every forms

I wouldn’t even need to calc anything since a higher form would grant the same difference as current DM

DM2 to AM is a 2x multiplier just like Base to DM and DM to DM 2 etc…
We can quantify it precisely and this difference was shown to be enough for a layer

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't mean AP as in AP, I meant the amount of magic. Like he needs anti-magic at least equal to what his opponent uses to completely nullify it

Okay that’s cool.

There’s something about Anti magic tho, regardless of how layered the Magic’s resistance to powernull is, Anti Magic just ignores all of it. Is that layered resistance negation or layered power nullification (top of the chain)

 

[Makai641001]

Because I for one, think that's not how layers should be counted. To me, you should only add a layer when the hax is actually shown to bypass the resistance and not just by using the "Bypassed by getting stronger so the layer increases each time I get stronger " logic.

If you think it's fine, then do that for Asta too because he can do the same exact shit.

It’s not this logic it’s
A quantifiable amp gave the ability to null something —> Same quantifiable amp is equal to the other amps —> Said amps would have the same effect

It’s not just getting stronger = 1 layer (going with this logic We could give them layers through rage power and anything else ressembling it)

 

[Makai641001]

Okay that’s cool.

There’s something about Anti magic tho, regardless of how layered the Magic’s resistance to powernull is, Anti Magic just ignores all of it. Is that layered resistance negation or layered power nullification (top of the chain)

Anti magic is powernull it would need layers to bypass Resistance to powernull like for every other fictional character negative energy is quite litteraly Anti Magic so We could say the exact same thing and stalemate the point infinitely

 

[Tatsumi504]

Okay that’s cool.

There’s something about Anti magic tho, regardless of how layered the Magic’s resistance to powernull is, Anti Magic just ignores all of it. Is that layered resistance negation or layered power nullification (top of the chain)

The thing is anti-magic is basically the opposite of magic power in black clover. It doesn't matter how layered the magic's resistance to powernull is, as long as there's enough anti-magic to counteract the amount of magic power used, it'll neg it.
Basically, it's always on top of the food chain so counting layers for matches like this is just redundant and doesn't go anywhere.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Can't we just say f*ck it all and have the match without all this power null crap?
Meliodas and zeldris don't really need magic, the only one at a disadvantage would be yuno cause from the looks of it, they definitely null his shit.

Even if we get the layers stuff sorted out we'd still have another argument of whether meliodas and zeldris can power null anti-magic

 

[Makai641001]

Can't we just say f*ck it all and have the match without all this power null crap?
Meliodas and zeldris don't really need magic, the only one at a disadvantage would be yuno cause from the looks of it, they definitely null his shit.

Even if we get the layers stuff sorted out we'd still have another argument of whether meliodas and zeldris can power null anti-magic

I think that going by this wiki rules Layers > simply say « oh he has equalized AP therefore his quantity of anti magic is enough
Anti magic is before anything power Null and in order to access their magic he would need to demonstrate the fact that he can bypass said layers

Saying **** it would be mid imo we have to agree and for now nobody here argued about how Asta’s Powernull would supersede their resistances to powernull or even how Yuno would resist their powernull it’s something important

Yuno is getting pounded here

Mel and Zel are also more skilled

More versatile

Have loads of resistance

Zel have immunity to magic stacked upon powernull

ON neggs

 

[Tatsumi504]

How does the power null on each team work even? No explanation needed for asta's.
I know yuno can resist power null via;

• Possibly Mana zone (Hope I'm right) &
• He's loved by mana.

Resisting one form of powerr null ≠ resisting all. If my memory serves correctly as well he resisted power null that worked through spatial domination.

The only knowledge I have on power null in NNT are stuff like;

• Counter Vanish
• Absolute Cancel &
• One other used by Chandler / merlin that seals magic power.
• Zeldris with God+ full react

Don't recall any other iterations of power null outside these unless I was too dumb to realize they count as power null. Why is Meliodas breaking out of melascula's Cocoon of Darkness with AM considered power null?

 

[Majinere566]

The only knowledge I have on power null in NNT are stuff like;

• Counter Vanish
• Absolute Cancel &
• One other used by Chandler / merlin that seals magic power.
• Zeldris with God+ full react

Don't recall any other iterations of power null outside these unless I was too dumb to realize they count as power null. Why is Meliodas breaking out of melascula's Cocoon of Darkness with AM considered power null?

Zeldris also having the ability to seal magic

Allegedly Ark is also a power null(idk how)

Perfect Cube(Not to sure if it counts as power null or attack reflection)

 

[Makai641001]

How does the power null on each team work even? No explanation needed for asta's.
I know yuno can resist power null via;

• Possibly Mana zone (Hope I'm right) &
• He's loved by mana.

Resisting one form of powerr null ≠ resisting all. If my memory serves correctly as well he resisted power null that worked through spatial domination.

The only knowledge I have on power null in NNT are stuff like;

• Counter Vanish
• Absolute Cancel &
• One other used by Chandler / merlin that seals magic power.
• Zeldris with God+ full react

Don't recall any other iterations of power null outside these unless I was too dumb to realize they count as power null. Why is Meliodas breaking out of melascula's Cocoon of Darkness with AM considered power null?

Negative energy immunise it’s users to magic granting them Resistance to it as shown when Melascula divided the negative energy on Her army of dead

Meli breaking out of it wouldn’t be possible without his powernull since as stated by Melascula his attacks are darkness based and would be absorbed

It’s an energy that can be used up to a certain range and is produced by basically any demons passively
It even null tp even though it doesn’t touch it

ON isn’t power null it’s GOD that is ON combined with full react and god attract people nullify their magic and slash them instantly

I won’t even talk about other layers of powernull for now just Negative energy is enough

If Asta doesn’t have enough layers then He can’t powernull them they resist their own negative energy

Anyway they are destroyer type He can’t null them Yuno is basically useless here

 

[Makai641001]

Zeldris also having the ability to seal magic

Negative energy is better to use

Allegedly Ark is also a power null(idk how)

Null light based magic

Perfect Cube(Not to sure if it counts as power null or attack reflection)

Attack reflexion and Limited Powernull trying to TP in would be impossible it would nullify any attempt of teleportation From the inside or even the outside