Medaka Vs Kars ... mission accomplished sir.

[Firephoenixearl]

If im not mistaken it works for all usual power nulls doe.

Due to the application being this:

The moment something activates, it get's nulled, preventing it from taking effect on the user.

 

[Agnaa]

No, it does not apply to power nulls. It's only about causality. See Monarch's example about the gun, the bullet still gets fired even if the gun disappears.

Also your analogy isn't comparable, the "knife" isn't gradual in this example, they're both instantaneous.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Fun fact

Medaka has a "see the future but you can't do anything to change it skill"

So she can see herself losing and goes "well ****"

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So All Fiction would apply then?

K change to All Fiction Bookmaker.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Activatable. I rly fail to see Ajimu losing to Kumagawa (ajimu was the original user).

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Monarch nope .

Medaka probably wouldnt.

All fction would force a btd and a blodlusted kars would mean temporal paradox .

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nope.
Medaka probably wouldnt.

All fction would force a btd and a blodlusted kars would mean temporal paradox .

Power Null All Fiction, not erasure All Fiction.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

All Fiction wouldn't apply.

Your concept of "erases cause and effect means it affects the past" is an interpretation that is never anywhere shown or even implied anywhere other than Ajimu's "I ate them both" statement, and even then it isn't evidence and still requires a reaching interpretation.

 

[Tincan123]

so in other words kars time paradox give him a slight edge of winning

 

[Firephoenixearl]

All Fiction wouldn't apply.
Your concept of "erases cause and effect means it affects the past" is an interpretation that is never anywhere shown or even implied anywhere other than Ajimu's "I ate them both" statement, and even then it isn't evidence and still requires a reaching interpretation.

That's All Fiction doe.

You shot a gun to hit me.

You never shot anything.

And again it's a kill that erases causality, how do u expect it to work?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

so in other words kars time paradox give him a slight edge of winning

Nope. We were just talking about Bookmaker not stomping.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It is true that All Fiction ca affect past events, such as erasing the event of Kumagawa's death.

It is not true that it automatically affects both past and present.

 

[DMB_1]

So, as for the votes?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It is true that All Fiction ca affect past events, such as erasing the event of Kumagawa's death.
It is not true that it automatically affects both past and present.

It was already explained that All Fiction is a skill that affects the cause and effect of something. And all it can do is "erase" them. It HAS to affect the past. There are no causes in the present. You can link causes to affect the presence, not erase them. The present is not reachable by causes, as every cause is in the past (no matter how near).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So, as for the votes?

No votes yet, the arguments are all over the place.

Besides neither side has a good argument for a vote.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Kars from btd mostly also d4c and maybe whitesnake aid .

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Kars from btd mostly also d4c and maybe whitesnake aid .

Let's solve All Fiction first.

This will be a win for Meda if All Fiction is considered retroactive.

 

[Tincan123]

It was already explained that All Fiction is a skill that affects the cause and effect of something. And all it can do is "erase" them. It HAS to affect the past. There are no causes in the present. You can link causes to affect the presence, not erase them. The present is not reachable by causes, as every cause is in the past (no matter how near).

But if this is the case wouldt kars Time Paradox Immunity be a perfect counter that.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

D4c and btd work alone. All fiction on ultimate kars wont prevent or effect btd or d4c earl .

 

[Firephoenixearl]

D4c and btd work alone.
All fiction on ultimate kars wont prevent or effect btd or d4c earl .

Null will work on stands dude. Nulling the user will null the stands by effect of "being their power". Just having a mind of their own won't save them

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Medaka has never used All Fiction retroactively or even shown the ability to use it in a such a way. It is a fallacy to say it can affect events farther back than a few seconds to minutes, which is what is shown when Kumagawa resurrects himself.

I personally will vote Kars via BTD time travel letting him time paradox her.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Excluding d4c which im getting tired of mentioning why that wouldnt actually happen .

Kq would not be effected because kq not his earl and that was mentioned plenty by now .

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Medaka has never used All Fiction retroactively or even shown the ability to use it in a such a way. It is a fallacy to say it can affect events farther back than a few seconds to minutes, which is what is shown when Kumagawa resurrects himself.
I personally will vote Kars via BTD time travel letting him time paradox her.

1. Kumagawa got back after hours. A whole match was ressurected.

2. It erased Zenkichi (1 lifetime back basically)

3. It can erase abilities or part of them which are just as hard to erase as stand via being innate skills on an individual.

Also it's not a fallacy, we already have enough proof. Also you forget the famous saying " i made it so it never happened". Meaning it erases something from the past aswell. And again Ajimu's explanation is basically a chapter of the manga. So retroactive All Fiction FRA.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

1. Kumagawa got back after hours. A whole match was ressurected.

2. It erased Zenkichi (1 lifetime back basically)

3. It can erase abilities or part of them which are just as hard to erase as stand via being innate skills on an individual.

Also it's not a fallacy, we already have enough proof. Also you forget the famous saying " i made it so it never happened". Meaning it erases something from the past aswell. And again Ajimu's explanation is basically a chapter of the manga. So retroactive All Fiction FRA.

1. Hours then. Actually, not hours anyway. All Fiction does not literally change the past. Because if it changed the past to erase the event of Kumagawa's death, Kumagawa wouldn't come back hours later, he'd never have been dead in the first place.

2. Unless everyone forgot about Zenkichi and every single thing he had ever done in his life was undone, no, that's just erasing him in the present.

3. K

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. Hours then. Actually, not hours anyway. All Fiction does not literally change the past. Because if it changed the past to erase the event of Kumagawa's death, Kumagawa wouldn't come back hours later, he'd never have been dead in the first place.

2. Unless everyone forgot about Zenkichi and every single thing he had ever done in his life was undone, no, that's just erasing him in the present.

1. Yeah, he never died. That's exactly the point. That's why we don't treat All Fiction as regen.

2. I already explained that in the blog. You can go read that part too. I don't wanna spam the thread needlessly (link is in the op).

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

1. If it affected the past, not only would he never have died, he would have been around for those three hours, and people would not remember him dying.

2. considering your entire argument there hinges on the name of the ability and does not provide any scans whatsoever to back ever what appears to be entirely your own interpretation, I think your blog is wrong.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If it affected the past, not only would he never have died, he would have been around for those three hours, and people would not remember him dying.

Explained in the blog. It turns things from reality into fiction. Everyone remembers, because that reality was made fiction. So what everyone remembers is mere fiction. Also the "time boom" seems to be bypassed in Medaka Box (i guess authors are not scientists after all), even other time travel skills seem to bypass the time boom (actual time travel skills).

Anyway retroactive All Fiction FTW. Now i have something new to use xD.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

2. considering your entire argument on the blog hinges on nothing more than the name of the ability and does not provide any scans whatsoever to back up what appears to be entirely your own interpretation, I think your blog is wrong.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

2. considering your entire argument on the blog hinges on nothing more than the name of the ability and does not provide any scans whatsoever to back up what appears to be entirely your own interpretation, I think your blog is wrong.

Many supporters agree with it. And i already have proof. Name, statements, and explanations all lead to that. Oh also the Medaka Box wiki.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Then link them, because otherwise I'm going to assume your blog is baseless assumption.

 

[Tincan123]

So shall we start voting before this gets to long for it on good.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Then link them, because otherwise I'm going to assume your blog is baseless assumption.

However, he has stated that once he removes something with his Minus, he cannot return it as it has become "fiction". His ability can even reverse his own death as well as the death of others.

At that time, he lost his original Minus, but instead gained Ajimu's Hundred Gauntlets, which developed into All Fictio

Hundred Gauntlets

A skill that reverses causality.

Ajimu's explanation of both (u can find that on Kumagawa's page, am a bit lazy to search for tha that now).

So ya convinced yet? Also "a skill that reverses causality". So basically it goes from the effect to the cause. All Fiction goes from that to "erases cause and effect". Since in HG's context causes are always in the past. All Fiction is retroactive.

 

[Agnaa]

Medaka Box wiki saying something doesn't make it true.

@Tincan123 No point forcing a vote when people are still discussing it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No, that's not what I'm looking for, and it doesn't prove anything about retroactively altering the entire timeline. Gae Bolg reverses causality, that just means the effect is guaranteed, it doesn't mean you get hits with the spear before he ever throws it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I voted for inconclusive, but I now lean more to Kars for J-Man and Monarch's reasons.

 

[Tincan123]

Medaka Box wiki saying something doesn't make it true.

@Tincan123 No point forcing a vote when people are still discussing it.

Not rly forcing it. I just want this to end at the very least ok.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No, that's not what I'm looking for, and it doesn't prove anything about retroactively altering the entire timeline. Gae Bolg reverses causality, that just means the effect is guaranteed, it doesn't mean you get hits with the spear before he ever throws it.

Ajimu's explanation says that. And the "never happened" which is used throughout the whole series says that aswell. So yeah time altering effects.

If something never happened, then it means it was erased from the timeline, having become fiction. This is also further proved by the other points i mentioned.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

A single thing was erased from the timeline yes, but AF did not rewrite the entire timeline to make it so.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

A single thing was erased from the timeline yes, but AF did not rewrite the entire timeline to make it so.

It's literally the same thing.

It erased something from the entire timeline. It never existed, it was never a thing. Same thing Jill does. She erases something and then says "it never happened, you never did this or that". Reality rewrite is not the only form of retroactive. Time altering stuff is.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Woah there. All-Fiction does not erase something from the entire timeline. It erases things from existence, yes, but it doesn't erase it from every point in the timeline.