Medaka Vs Kars ... mission accomplished sir.

[PaChi2]

What is BTD again?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

That but also d4c oaradox .

Btd can paradox. Time travel and gimp a younger medaka .

 

[Agnaa]

What is BTD again?

Bite the dust. Kira's stand, the antagonist of part 4. The one that rewinds time.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

What is BTD again?

Za dusto .

Which can be hosted by the user within the novel . Also feats of jars utilizing btd to go back quadrillion years to find dio exist .

 

[PaChi2]

What is BTD again?

Bite the dust. Kira's stand, the antagonist of part 4. The one that rewinds time.

Thanks. Does it work differently than in the manga?

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not quite familiar with the novel. It sounds like it's more powerful in some form, with J-Man saying Kars had btd go back a quadrillion years to find dio existing.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Mostly exactly the same although way better feats for btd exust . Mostly used for time travel for uktinate .

And kira and eventually ultimate worked around the weakness (and its potent enough that when Kira activated btd only mentioning him across morioh nuked ya ).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bookmaker already takes care of all the stands @J-man.

@Sir Ovens....U srsly asked that? xD "How does bookmaker activate without screws?" Bookmaker is literally the skill that spawns screws xD. If i may use the meme Velo used to say "screws, screws everywhere".

Bookmaker will be the first thing to activate in this match via battle rules as being a negation type of skill. So all of the stand skills (time stop, time rewind, paradox, literally everything else) will be after Bookmaker, but the point is there is nothing after bookmaker. None of the stands will be able to take action, they won't "exist" (not literally not exist, just not be in the fight anymore). So there is nothing that can happen after Bookmaker, but Battle Rules prevent anything from happening before it.

Kars' can't negate Bookmaker (and none of his stands can either as they will be unable to do anything after Bookmaker is used).

 

[DMB_1]

Also, we should take into consideration that Kars is most likely massively more intelligent than her.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also, we should take into consideration that Kars is most likely massively more intelligent than her.

Not taken into account. Bookmaker will make him dumber than her anyway.

Besides, Medaka doesn't need to outsmart Kars, just use her stuff.

 

[Agnaa]

Why do "battle rules" mean that bookmaker goes off before anything else? What do you mean by "battle rules"?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No... Book Maker would make him equal to her.

 

[PaChi2]

Also, we should take into consideration that Kars is most likely massively more intelligent than her.

Not taken into account. Bookmaker will make him dumber than her anyway.
Besides, Medaka doesn't need to outsmart Kars, just use her stuff.

Nope. Bookmaker makes Kaars absolutely equal to Medaka.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Why do "battle rules" mean that bookmaker goes off before anything else? What do you mean by "battle rules"?

Ever since the Jill Presto VS Medaka thread, Fire has got it in his head that altering the past automatically wins over altering the present, even if both abilities get off at the same time in the present. This isn't actually untrue, as killing someone in the past would undo them killing you in the present... but he's extrapolated this to say that All Fiction works by affecting the past due to the whole "erase both cause and effect" thing. Which is never actually made explicit or really even implied, and only refers to All Fiction anyway, not book maker.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Agnaa Battle Rules say Power Negating abilities (power null, type 2 sealing) will go off before normal activation. The same thing happened with Medaka vs Jill. Medaka tries to use anything...no Jill nulled that (despite it being speed equalized). In this battle it is translated as literally Medaka's Bookmaker ticks off first.

@Monarch and Pacci....challenge accepted. Since im limited by J-man i'll only use stuff that's been accepted to the profiles:

Book Maker: A Minus copied from Kumagawa, allowing Medaka to impale her foe with a special screw that brings the target's body, spirit, technique, intellect, and talent down to Kumagawa's level. Although the attack itself does virtually no damage, the screw "soils the heart", which can destroy the ambition and drive of most individuals. (from the fact that Bookmaker turns a plus into a minus)

It is also stated in the profiles that "her use is likely better than that of Kumagawa's"

Also last proof: Forsaken God Mode (Õ╗âþÑ×ÒâóÒâ╝Òâë, Haishin Mōdo): Created to serve a similar purpose as Kumagawa's Book Maker, Forsaken God Mode makes Medaka weaker than her opponent.

God Mode + Bookmaker on self make Medaka "weaker than the opponent" instead of "equal to the opponent". Therefore her bookmaker makes you weaker than her.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Bookmaker already takes care of all the stands @J-man.

@Sir Ovens....U srsly asked that? xD "How does bookmaker activate without screws?" Bookmaker is literally the skill that spawns screws xD. If i may use the meme Velo used to say "screws, screws everywhere".

Bookmaker will be the first thing to activate in this match via battle rules as being a negation type of skill. So all of the stand skills (time stop, time rewind, paradox, literally everything else) will be after Bookmaker, but the point is there is nothing after bookmaker. None of the stands will be able to take action, they won't "exist" (not literally not exist, just not be in the fight anymore). So there is nothing that can happen after Bookmaker, but Battle Rules prevent anything from happening before it.

Kars' can't negate Bookmaker (and none of his stands can either as they will be unable to do anything after Bookmaker is used).

Youre exuding the fact kq wont and d4c wont even be effected from one having feats of being unefected by what happened and being separate and kq being literally a power that was told and convinced that his user was a coward and ultimate a cool man and he should work for him .

Medaka wont be aware of the specific nature of jq (or that queen even exists actualy ). And d4c has a unique scenario and nature if the stand .


Youre right he (kars ) would obviously not negate book marker. He has answers to book marker though .

 

[Tincan123]

But how is bookmaker gonne deal ith D4C if it works independently

 

[PaChi2]

"Book Maker: A Minus copied from Kumagawa, allowing Medaka to impale her foe with a special screw that brings the target's body, spirit, technique, intellect, and talent down to Kumagawa's level. Although the attack itself does virtually no damage, the screw "soils the heart", which can destroy the ambition and drive of most individuals. (from the fact that Bookmaker turns a plus into a minus)"

Bookmaker has only been used by Kumagawa. this is false. It brings the others to the user's level.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Agnaa Battle Rules say Power Negating abilities (power null, type 2 sealing) will go off before normal activation. The same thing happened with Medaka vs Jill. Medaka tries to use anything...no Jill nulled that (despite it being speed equalized). In this battle it is translated as literally Medaka's Bookmaker ticks off first.

Ummm no.

That is not SBA at all. Incorrect. Absolutely nothing says "power negation goes first". The reason Jill's hax beat medaka there was because Jill's powers altered the past, thus retroactively changing the present so even if both abilities got off at the same time, the timeline would change due to Medaka being killed before she could ever use her ability.

 

[Agnaa]

@Fire Which "battle rules"? I've never heard that before, even though I've been in many threads with characters who can power null/seal, AND I can't find anything about it in Versus Thread Rules or Standard Battle Assumptions.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Fire Which "battle rules"? I've never heard that before, even though I've been in many threads with characters who can power null/seal, AND I can't find anything about it in Versus Thread Rules or Standard Battle Assumptions.

That's because it isn't.

Fire is incorrect, plain and simple.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

"Book Maker: A Minus copied from Kumagawa, allowing Medaka to impale her foe with a special screw that brings the target's body, spirit, technique, intellect, and talent down to Kumagawa's level. Although the attack itself does virtually no damage, the screw "soils the heart", which can destroy the ambition and drive of most individuals. (from the fact that Bookmaker turns a plus into a minus)"
Bookmaker has only been used by Kumagawa. this is false. It brings the others to the user's level.

Bookmaker: A skill that turns a plus into a minus.

That is literally a statement in the series. Kumagawa is the literal definiton of a minus. And Bookmaker can't put buffs, so someone weaker than Medaka isn't gonna get her buffs, Minuses can't do that. So the only logical way is the statement in the series. Also it's in Medaka's profile. Already accepted in previous threads.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I said this before, screws won't work on Kars as he has Dune intangibility. Try stabbing sand with a screwdriver and see if it sticks. Kars won't be affected by Bookmaker thanks to Dune.

 

[Agnaa]

@Monarch Even that explanation from Jill's thread sounds weird when you say it now. While it's true that if retroactive abilities go off first, even by the infinitesimally smallest amount, they would actually be first by a huge margin, speed equalized means they'd both go off at the same time, so shouldn't it still be inconclusive due to being "who shoots first with speed equalized"?

If you did the match repeatedly it'd be around a 50/50 split because of one happening to react/decide infinitesimally quicker and kill the other before the other's ability can go off.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Fire Which "battle rules"? I've never heard that before, even though I've been in many threads with characters who can power null/seal, AND I can't find anything about it in Versus Thread Rules or Standard Battle Assumptions.

That's because it isn't.
Fire is incorrect, plain and simple.

It isn't a battle rule, though it's treated like one. As it's logical that a power null will nullify a power the moment it's activated.

If anything happens (is activated), null is also activated at the same time, nulling any effect the skill may have.

Also Monarch, no it's not by altering the past. If that were the case then Medaka would have 1 shotted Jill before she had the chance to alter her past. Though Jills null would take precedence, via being well a null.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Monarch Even that explanation from Jill's thread sounds weird when you say it now. While it's true that if retroactive abilities go off first, even by the infinitesimally smallest amount, they would actually be first by a huge margin, speed equalized means they'd both go off at the same time, so shouldn't it still be inconclusive due to being "who shoots first with speed equalized"?
If you did the match repeatedly it'd be around a 50/50 split because of one happening to react/decide infinitesimally quicker and kill the other before the other's ability can go off.

They don't go off quicker or slower than the other though.

Both are thought-activated instantly-hitting abilities. So the one that retroactively stops the other from working wins.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I said this before, screws won't work on Kars as he has Dune intangibility. Try stabbing sand with a screwdriver and see if it sticks. Kars won't be affected by Bookmaker thanks to Dune.

Not gonna stop Bookmaker. The screw can be spawned inside someone and the screw is not physical anyway. (already established non corporeality or intangability won't work)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It isn't a battle rule, though it's treated like one. As it's logical that a power null will nullify a power the moment it's activated.

If anything happens (is activated), null is also activated at the same time, nulling any effect the skill may have.

Again, no.

It would depend entirely on the mechanics of the null, and bookmaker, which prevents the character from using their abilities, can't seal an ability that has already activated and had it's effect go off.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They don't go off quicker or slower than the other though.

Both are thought-activated instantly-hitting abilities. So the one that retroactively stops the other from working wins.

^^^

Yup. Both are activated at the same time, though Null takes precedence in action. Therefore acting as being faster.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Also want make a mention but ultimate often and would maje and spontaneously gain resistances from powers at a whim .

He also has multiple kars within him .

 

[Agnaa]

Well that makes sense, but only since it's retroactive. Fire's wrong since bookmaker is ongoing, not retroactive.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Again, no.

It would depend entirely on the mechanics of the null, and bookmaker, which prevents the character from using their abilities, can't seal an ability that has already activated and had it's effect go off.

Wrong.

Bookmaker can seal passives and even literal parts of you being (which are again passive). You have a passive IQ of 130, not an activatable one.

So no Bookmaker does work under the Null > activation.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I will be clear, since I am a fan of both series. Both of them have power copying that lets them copy stuff they shouldn't be able to, or that can bypass the downside of copying said abilities:

Medaka has the monster inside her that ***** over power copiers, and Minus normally **** over the people who copy them.

Kars gores whoever recieves his stands and stands in general can't have more than one per person.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

But Kars has the understand. Once he looks at Medaka, he understands how she works and can do a plethora of things to get past Bookmaker. Medaka on the other hand needs to see Kars do something before she can copy, if she can even copy Kars. Kars can D4C away and spam clones at Medaka.

 

[Agnaa]

If I kill you, and you take a second to die, while you simultaneously kill me, we both die. However, if I kill you, and you take a second to die, while you simultaneously kill me and retroactively erase the history where I killed you, then you'd live.

This isn't about nullification, it's about causality. Even if you removed my ability to kill you at the same time I killed you, you'd still die.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well that makes sense, but only since it's retroactive. Fire's wrong since bookmaker is ongoing, not retroactive.

Bookmaker is permanenent (unless the user takes it from you).

Bookmaker is literally a null on a selected target. So yeah it does work.

Time stop is activated, bookmaker is already inside you. Activation happened, no effect doe, it wasn't fast enough to activate. That's how this works.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

But Kars has the understand. Once he looks at Medaka, he understands how she works and can do a plethora of things to get past Bookmaker. Medaka on the other hand needs to see Kars do something before she can copy, if she can even copy Kars.
Kars can D4C away and spam clones at Medaka.

Medaka has her Analysis quirk as well. Besides, are we going to assume he can bypass the absolute destruction that is caused by copying a minus?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Wrong.

Bookmaker can seal passives and even literal parts of you being (which are again passive). You have a passive IQ of 130, not an activatable one.

So no Bookmaker does work under the Null > activation.

If I can fire a bullet from a gun at you by pulling a trigger, and you have the ability to paralyse my arm by pulling a trigger, you still won't stop the bullet if we both pull the triggers at the same time.

 

[Agnaa]

Bookmaker is permanent, but not retroactive.

It doesn't go back through time and bring your stats down throughout all of history. It only starts working when it connects. So the "rule" you're referencing doesn't apply.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If I kill you, and you take a second to die, while you simultaneously kill me, we both die. However, if I kill you, and you take a second to die, while you simultaneously kill me and retroactively erase the history where I killed you, then you'd live.
This isn't about nullification, it's about causality. Even if you removed my ability to kill you at the same time I killed you, you'd still die.

No, it's more like this.

You have a knife, and u'r about to stab me, the kinfe is touching my chest, i make the knife dissapear before it punctures me. This is how it works.

Activation happens at the same time. Then Null > effect (instant effects included).