MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread

[OneBleachHurricane]

Is there explicit evidence that Loki did enchant them?

No

But Loki's explicitly shown to Enchant his daggers in Thor 1, which One-Shot Frost Giants and their Ice Weapons.

1:19 & 3:08




1:30


Though it is an illusion, it might be an indication that when Loki enchants his weapons the enchantments are not always visible.

And before anyone goes "thIs Isn't prOOf thAt lOkI's EnchAntmEnts scAlE tO thOr bEcAusE It's An IllUsIOn", I'm talking about how the illusion shows that Loki's dagger can melt armor, and cauterize flesh instead of just a simple cut.

Piercing damage go brrr

Gungnir allowed Loki to hold his own against a Holding Back Thor ~ At Most Tier 6 AP/SS

The Chitauri Sceptre allowed Loki to hold his own against a Weakened Holding Back Thor ~ At Most Tier 7 AP/SS

His Dagger was able to pierce a Weakened Thor's torso ~ Tier 7 AP

The Dark Elf Sword was able to pierce Kurse's Torso ~ Tier 6 AP

Loki using different weapons ranges from Tier 7 to Tier 6

The Dagger and Sword's only feats are Piercing Damage similar to Sif's weapon

 

[Propellus]

Did thor have any anti-feats of being pierced by conventional weapons other than Loki's Weaponry before?

 

[RoTt35]

Did thor have any anti-feats of being pierced by conventional weapons other than Loki's Weaponry before?

No, and Loki is already bulletproof

 

[Propellus]

No, and Loki is already bulletproof

Fair

 

[Excellence616]

I think these three important issues remain to be discussed:

• Possible Low 1-C Upgrades (AP and Range)
• Possible Speed Upgrades (Iron Man's Particle Beams, Ultron's Lasers and Ironheart's Photon Cannon)
• Possible New Tier 6 Scaling (Iron Man's 4.75 multiplier, maybe also the Casket scaling since it seems that the High 6-A calc will never be evaluated)

Wow! Upgrades

 

[Lacku]

I think these three important issues remain to be discussed:

• Possible Low 1-C Upgrades (AP and Range)
• Possible Speed Upgrades (Iron Man's Particle Beams, Ultron's Lasers and Ironheart's Photon Cannon)
• Possible New Tier 6 Scaling (Iron Man's 4.75 multiplier, maybe also the Casket scaling since it seems that the High 6-A calc will never be evaluated)

Any hope of Thanos crushing the Tesseract ever getting an accurate calc?

 

[Lacku]

I was also thinking about Hulk's Avenger key I think it would be better if we changed his stats from "At least 7-B, likely higher" to "At least 7-B, likely 6-B" as there's evidence that supports him being the strongest of the team even back then. The biggest anti-feat for Hulk is that Thor was weakened for a lot of the first movie, and while we don't know how long it's possible it was for most of it. Despite this Thor has still hurt 6-B characters like Ultimate Ultron, ragdolling him and overpowering him twice in Age of Ultron. There's also the fact that in Ragnarok, Tony made it so that the Quinjet identified Bruce Banner as the strongest Avenger instead of Thor, and with how smart Tony is it'd be weird for him to get this wrong. Thoughts?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

ragdolling him and overpowering him twice in Age of Ultron.

Ultron was extremely damaged and weakened by Iron Man, Thor and Vision. And that first punch didn't even do notable damage to Ultron afaik

Also, some info about the cave scene might knock Ultron and Vision down to High 6-C

with how smart Tony is it'd be weird for him to get this wrong

Tony fought a weakened + holding-back Thor, and they never interacted again for years after the movie

Meanwhile, Tony continued to work with Banner and even designed an armour with him specifically made to fight Hulk, so he would be more knowledgeable on Hulk's power level compared to Thor's

 

[Lacku]

Tony fought a weakened + holding-back Thor, and they never interacted again for years after the movie

Meanwhile, Tony continued to work with Banner and even designed an armour with him specifically made to fight Hulk, so he would be more knowledgeable on Hulk's power level compared to Thor's

This is just not true though since Thor was back to working with the Avengers after the Dark World since HYDRA got their hands on the Chitauri Scepter and they went on an unknown amount of missions together to stop them, Tony would definitely know how strong Thor is by the time of Age of Ultron

 

[Lacku]

Ultron was extremely damaged and weakened by Iron Man, Thor and Vision. And that first punch didn't even do notable damage to Ultron afaik

Also, some info about the cave scene might knock Ultron and Vision down to High 6-C

This is a valid counter-argument though I don't have much to say about this apart from the fact that Hulk did seem to pretty heavily overpower Ultron in their second encounter on the Quinjet.

I'm also not too sure about Ultron and Vision getting downgraded since iirc the evidence that they should comes from a deleted scene

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

This is just not true though since Thor was back to working with the Avengers after the Dark World since HYDRA got their hands on the Chitauri Scepter and they went on an unknown amount of missions together to stop them, Tony would definitely know how strong Thor is by the time of Age of Ultron

Beating the shit out of a bunch of HYDRA fodder isn't enough to tell Tony how powerful Thor really is. Even Black Widow and Captain America can do that

Hulk did seem to pretty heavily overpower Ultron in their second encounter on the Quinjet

Ultron was caught off-guard by the sudden appearance of Hulk in the Quinjet, and:

Ultron was extremely damaged and weakened by Iron Man, Thor and Vision.

 

[Lacku]

Beating the shit out of a bunch of HYDRA fodder isn't enough to tell Tony how powerful Thor really is. Even Black Widow and Captain America can do that

It's still strange to assume that by Age of Ultron this whole time none of the Avengers including Tony, one of the smartest people in the whole verse, knew that Thor was actually stronger than he was in Avengers 2012.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Ultron was caught off-guard by the sudden appearance of Hulk in the Quinjet, and:

Nah he was aware of Hulk entering the Quinjet, he was even annoyed and they even had a brief struggle, he just couldn't do anything because as you said "he was already badly damaged"

 

[Emerald]

I heard some people saying that Endgame Thor is weaker than IW Thor bcs of Tony’s comment
How reliable is this?

 

[Gasper]

I heard some people saying that Endgame Thor is weaker than IW Thor bcs of Tony’s comment
How reliable is this?

He isn't weaker

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I heard some people saying that Endgame Thor is weaker than IW Thor bcs of Tony’s comment
How reliable is this?

Which one? The "You're in no condition"?

It's kinda vague and that was before the final battle of Endgame, which is when Thor was stated to stronger than ever, so it doesn't make a big difference

 

[Emerald]

Which one? The "You're in no condition"?

Yea, that. And Tony replying to Thor's comment about him being the strongest with "normally you would be right" or something along those lines

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I think Tony was more or less talking about Thor's mental state during that situation

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

And Tony replying to Thor's comment about him being the strongest with "normally you would be right" or something along those lines

I'm rewatching the scene and I kinda hear it. Though the Russos statement that Thor is stronger than ever is about him in the final battle of Endgame, which takes place after this scene, so I'm not sure

Much more recently, Chris Hemsworth did say that Endgame Thor is weaker, but I think statements from directors are generally favoured over those from actors

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

but I think statements from directors are generally favoured over those from actors

 

[RoTt35]

Any hope of Thanos crushing the Tesseract ever getting an accurate calc?

I don't think so, and if I remember correctly if it was calculated properly the result would be so low that it wouldn't be worth it

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

TBF, the directors are usually the ones calling the shots...

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Yea, that. And Tony replying to Thor's comment about him being the strongest with "normally you would be right" or something along those lines

It was assumed by multiple people, including me, because of one thing: logic. Thor has been out of shape and hasn't fought in five years. Logic would say that, if you stop training and let yourself go and become fat for five years, you're weaker than when you were in peak shape and regulary fighting and owning your skills. But since it has been stated Fat Thor is somehow stronger than he ever was (at the time), logic can throw itself into a black hole I guess

 

[Galvino]

Way I think about it is that fat Thor's body can be weaker but because he has two hammers, he's "stronger" than a Thor with only one hammer in terms of arsenal.

 

[Lacku]

It was assumed by multiple people, including me, because of one thing: logic. Thor has been out of shape and hasn't fought in five years. Logic would say that, if you stop training and let yourself go and become fat for five years, you're weaker than when you were in peak shape and regulary fighting and owning your skills. But since it has been stated Fat Thor is somehow stronger than he ever was (at the time), logic can throw itself into a black hole I guess

I mean Thor is a norse god, a lot of things about them defy logic. If anything for me it adds to the mysticism around Thor that, even though he was out of shape in Endgame, him feeling that he was worthy again was enough to empower him beyond his previous peak in Infinity War.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I mean Thor is a norse god, a lot of things about them defy logic. If anything for me it adds to the mysticism around Thor that, even though he was out of shape in Endgame, him feeling that he was worthy again was enough to empower him beyond his previous peak in Infinity War.

In some way, it kind of makes him more accurate to the mythos though not as accurate Chad Thor from God of War)

 

[RoTt35]

I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:

Spoiler

Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C

Thoughts? Does someone want to change or add something?

 

[Lacku]

In some way, it kind of makes him more accurate to the mythos though not as accurate Chad Thor from God of War)

Oh I completely agree. I think what MCU Thor has been missing is a complete embrace of the actual myths that he comes from, which God of War does amazingly while also keeping it grounded. If were lucky enough to get another Thor movie after Love and Thunder honestly they should just look to both GoW 2018 and Ragnarok for inspiration for the tone and presentation of the film.

 

[Gasper]

I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:

Spoiler

Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C

Thoughts? Does someone want to change or add something?

Agree

 

[Excellence616]

I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:

Spoiler

Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C

Thoughts? Does someone want to change or add something?

Make sense

 

[RoTt35]

I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:

Spoiler

Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C

Here's the CRT

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I’ve noticed that all of “Groot’s” feats are in one profile but wasn’t it confirmed awhile show that groot died in the first guardians film and the current one is his son? So shouldn’t there be separate profiles for them?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Haven't heard anything like that, everybody treats the "new" Groot as the same as the old one, just in a new form

 

[Dinobot1996]

James Gunn at least considers the two Groots as separate individuals, treating the second Groot as the offspring of the first Groot:

The Marvel Studios Visual Dictionary also considers the second Groot to be a new individual:

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ya so shouldn’t we separate them in there own profiles?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

If that's the case, they should get a separated profile yes

 

[RoTt35]

Does someone know what the sources of these scans are?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Does someone know what the sources of these scans are?

Dr Strange Artbook maybe?

 

[RoTt35]

Dr Strange Artbook maybe?

Yeah, both scans are from "The Art of Doctor Strange", thanks