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MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread

Marvel_Champion_07 said:
Is there explicit evidence that Loki did enchant them?
Click to expand...
No

But Loki's explicitly shown to Enchant his daggers in Thor 1, which One-Shot Frost Giants and their Ice Weapons.

1:19 & 3:08




1:30


Though it is an illusion, it might be an indication that when Loki enchants his weapons the enchantments are not always visible.

And before anyone goes "thIs Isn't prOOf thAt lOkI's EnchAntmEnts scAlE tO thOr bEcAusE It's An IllUsIOn", I'm talking about how the illusion shows that Loki's dagger can melt armor, and cauterize flesh instead of just a simple cut.

Marvel_Champion_07 said:
Piercing damage go brrr
Click to expand...

Gungnir allowed Loki to hold his own against a Holding Back Thor ~ At Most Tier 6 AP/SS

The Chitauri Sceptre allowed Loki to hold his own against a Weakened Holding Back Thor ~ At Most Tier 7 AP/SS

His Dagger was able to pierce a Weakened Thor's torso ~ Tier 7 AP

The Dark Elf Sword was able to pierce Kurse's Torso ~ Tier 6 AP

Loki using different weapons ranges from Tier 7 to Tier 6

The Dagger and Sword's only feats are Piercing Damage similar to Sif's weapon
 
Did thor have any anti-feats of being pierced by conventional weapons other than Loki's Weaponry before?
 
RoTt35 said:
I think these three important issues remain to be discussed:
  • Possible Low 1-C Upgrades (AP and Range)
  • Possible Speed Upgrades (Iron Man's Particle Beams, Ultron's Lasers and Ironheart's Photon Cannon)
  • Possible New Tier 6 Scaling (Iron Man's 4.75 multiplier, maybe also the Casket scaling since it seems that the High 6-A calc will never be evaluated)
Click to expand...
Wow! Upgrades
 
RoTt35 said:
I think these three important issues remain to be discussed:
  • Possible Low 1-C Upgrades (AP and Range)
  • Possible Speed Upgrades (Iron Man's Particle Beams, Ultron's Lasers and Ironheart's Photon Cannon)
  • Possible New Tier 6 Scaling (Iron Man's 4.75 multiplier, maybe also the Casket scaling since it seems that the High 6-A calc will never be evaluated)
Click to expand...
Any hope of Thanos crushing the Tesseract ever getting an accurate calc?
 
I was also thinking about Hulk's Avenger key I think it would be better if we changed his stats from "At least 7-B, likely higher" to "At least 7-B, likely 6-B" as there's evidence that supports him being the strongest of the team even back then. The biggest anti-feat for Hulk is that Thor was weakened for a lot of the first movie, and while we don't know how long it's possible it was for most of it. Despite this Thor has still hurt 6-B characters like Ultimate Ultron, ragdolling him and overpowering him twice in Age of Ultron. There's also the fact that in Ragnarok, Tony made it so that the Quinjet identified Bruce Banner as the strongest Avenger instead of Thor, and with how smart Tony is it'd be weird for him to get this wrong. Thoughts?
 
Lacku said:
ragdolling him and overpowering him twice in Age of Ultron.
Click to expand...
Ultron was extremely damaged and weakened by Iron Man, Thor and Vision. And that first punch didn't even do notable damage to Ultron afaik

Also, some info about the cave scene might knock Ultron and Vision down to High 6-C
Lacku said:
with how smart Tony is it'd be weird for him to get this wrong
Click to expand...
Tony fought a weakened + holding-back Thor, and they never interacted again for years after the movie

Meanwhile, Tony continued to work with Banner and even designed an armour with him specifically made to fight Hulk, so he would be more knowledgeable on Hulk's power level compared to Thor's
 
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Marvel_Champion_07 said:
Tony fought a weakened + holding-back Thor, and they never interacted again for years after the movie

Meanwhile, Tony continued to work with Banner and even designed an armour with him specifically made to fight Hulk, so he would be more knowledgeable on Hulk's power level compared to Thor's
Click to expand...
This is just not true though since Thor was back to working with the Avengers after the Dark World since HYDRA got their hands on the Chitauri Scepter and they went on an unknown amount of missions together to stop them, Tony would definitely know how strong Thor is by the time of Age of Ultron
 
Marvel_Champion_07 said:
Ultron was extremely damaged and weakened by Iron Man, Thor and Vision. And that first punch didn't even do notable damage to Ultron afaik

Also, some info about the cave scene might knock Ultron and Vision down to High 6-C
Click to expand...
This is a valid counter-argument though I don't have much to say about this apart from the fact that Hulk did seem to pretty heavily overpower Ultron in their second encounter on the Quinjet.

I'm also not too sure about Ultron and Vision getting downgraded since iirc the evidence that they should comes from a deleted scene
 
Lacku said:
This is just not true though since Thor was back to working with the Avengers after the Dark World since HYDRA got their hands on the Chitauri Scepter and they went on an unknown amount of missions together to stop them, Tony would definitely know how strong Thor is by the time of Age of Ultron
Click to expand...
Beating the shit out of a bunch of HYDRA fodder isn't enough to tell Tony how powerful Thor really is. Even Black Widow and Captain America can do that
Lacku said:
Hulk did seem to pretty heavily overpower Ultron in their second encounter on the Quinjet
Click to expand...
Ultron was caught off-guard by the sudden appearance of Hulk in the Quinjet, and:
Marvel_Champion_07 said:
Ultron was extremely damaged and weakened by Iron Man, Thor and Vision.
Click to expand...
 
Marvel_Champion_07 said:
Beating the shit out of a bunch of HYDRA fodder isn't enough to tell Tony how powerful Thor really is. Even Black Widow and Captain America can do that
Click to expand...
It's still strange to assume that by Age of Ultron this whole time none of the Avengers including Tony, one of the smartest people in the whole verse, knew that Thor was actually stronger than he was in Avengers 2012.
 
I heard some people saying that Endgame Thor is weaker than IW Thor bcs of Tony’s comment
How reliable is this?
 
Emerald said:
I heard some people saying that Endgame Thor is weaker than IW Thor bcs of Tony’s comment
How reliable is this?
Click to expand...
Which one? The "You're in no condition"?

It's kinda vague and that was before the final battle of Endgame, which is when Thor was stated to stronger than ever, so it doesn't make a big difference
 
Emerald said:
And Tony replying to Thor's comment about him being the strongest with "normally you would be right" or something along those lines
Click to expand...
I'm rewatching the scene and I kinda hear it. Though the Russos statement that Thor is stronger than ever is about him in the final battle of Endgame, which takes place after this scene, so I'm not sure

Much more recently, Chris Hemsworth did say that Endgame Thor is weaker, but I think statements from directors are generally favoured over those from actors
 
Marvel_Champion_07 said:
but I think statements from directors are generally favoured over those from actors
Click to expand...
images
 
Lacku said:
Any hope of Thanos crushing the Tesseract ever getting an accurate calc?
Click to expand...
I don't think so, and if I remember correctly if it was calculated properly the result would be so low that it wouldn't be worth it
 
Emerald said:
Yea, that. And Tony replying to Thor's comment about him being the strongest with "normally you would be right" or something along those lines
Click to expand...
It was assumed by multiple people, including me, because of one thing: logic. Thor has been out of shape and hasn't fought in five years. Logic would say that, if you stop training and let yourself go and become fat for five years, you're weaker than when you were in peak shape and regulary fighting and owning your skills. But since it has been stated Fat Thor is somehow stronger than he ever was (at the time), logic can throw itself into a black hole I guess 😐
 
Last edited:
Way I think about it is that fat Thor's body can be weaker but because he has two hammers, he's "stronger" than a Thor with only one hammer in terms of arsenal.
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
It was assumed by multiple people, including me, because of one thing: logic. Thor has been out of shape and hasn't fought in five years. Logic would say that, if you stop training and let yourself go and become fat for five years, you're weaker than when you were in peak shape and regulary fighting and owning your skills. But since it has been stated Fat Thor is somehow stronger than he ever was (at the time), logic can throw itself into a black hole I guess 😐
Click to expand...
I mean Thor is a norse god, a lot of things about them defy logic. If anything for me it adds to the mysticism around Thor that, even though he was out of shape in Endgame, him feeling that he was worthy again was enough to empower him beyond his previous peak in Infinity War.
 
Lacku said:
I mean Thor is a norse god, a lot of things about them defy logic. If anything for me it adds to the mysticism around Thor that, even though he was out of shape in Endgame, him feeling that he was worthy again was enough to empower him beyond his previous peak in Infinity War.
Click to expand...
In some way, it kind of makes him more accurate to the mythos though not as accurate Chad Thor from God of War)
 
I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:
Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C
Thoughts? Does someone want to change or add something?
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
In some way, it kind of makes him more accurate to the mythos though not as accurate Chad Thor from God of War)
Click to expand...
Oh I completely agree. I think what MCU Thor has been missing is a complete embrace of the actual myths that he comes from, which God of War does amazingly while also keeping it grounded. If were lucky enough to get another Thor movie after Love and Thunder honestly they should just look to both GoW 2018 and Ragnarok for inspiration for the tone and presentation of the film.
 
RoTt35 said:
I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:
Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C
Thoughts? Does someone want to change or add something?
Click to expand...
Agree
 
RoTt35 said:
I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:
Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C
Thoughts? Does someone want to change or add something?
Click to expand...
Make sense
 
RoTt35 said:
I was working on the CRT for the Low 1-C upgrades, this is what I did:
Recently the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C in this CRT. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branches equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse itself, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C
Click to expand...
Here's the CRT
 
I’ve noticed that all of “Groot’s” feats are in one profile but wasn’t it confirmed awhile show that groot died in the first guardians film and the current one is his son? So shouldn’t there be separate profiles for them?
 
Haven't heard anything like that, everybody treats the "new" Groot as the same as the old one, just in a new form
 
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