MCU Low 1-C Upgrades

[RoTt35]

Recently, the last month actually, the Multiverse was upgraded to Low 1-C, the CRT for reference. According to how the cosmology page was updated, the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline with its branched timelines equals to an uncountable amount of timelines (Low 1-C), with the Multiverse as a whole containing an infinite amount of these unique timelines, called trees

Alioth ended the Multiversal War between countless of those unique timelines, while it is unknown how he did it we know that it had to be instantly (something of which Alioth is already able to do with the branches) because of how the ramifications work, as it would be completely impossible for Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out indefinitely into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once, therefore if Alioth were to destroy them one by one at the moment to do so, even if it's instantly, all the other timelines would have already branched into uncountable new timelines, and so on ad infinitum. Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him.

Infinity Ultron scales above Alioth, but he also has his own statements of being not only a threat to all the universes but also to the Multiverse in its entirety, with its boundaries being irrelevant to him, therefore he should also be possibly Low 1-C like Alioth, which would also scale to The Watcher and Doctor Strange Supreme

The Watcher can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space, which includes everything that has ever happened, ever will happen, ever could happen, or is happening, having the entire Multiverse at his fingertips, therefore his Cosmic Awareness should also be upgraded to Low 1-C

Scarlet Witch was able to erase the Darkhold in every universe at once, as there are an uncountable amount of them her range with Existence Erasure should be upgraded to Low 1-C

Agree: 12 (@Marvel_Champion_07, @Lonkitt, @Qawsedf234, @Oliver_de_jesus, @Aachintya31, @Lacku, @Excel616, @LuffyRuffy46307, @Reiner, @AnonymousBlank, @ThanatosX, @RoTt35)

Disagree: 1 (@PrinceofPein)

Neutral:

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

oh boy, lets go

i agree

 

[PrinceofPein]

He should not get a possibly, we have nothing on how it was done, and besides he was killed by Loki, so he is physically not the tier.

 

[RoTt35]

He should not get a possibly, we have nothing on how it was done

We know that Alioth can consume branched timelines instantly, and that to end the Multiversal War he had to do exactly the same with the countless timelines or "trees" (structures with an uncountable amount of timelines) since otherwise the branching would prevent him from doing so since there would be uncountable new timelines at every passing/singular moment

and besides he was killed by Loki, so he is physically not the tier.

Did you even see the episode? Loki and Sylvie just mind controlled him

 

[PrinceofPein]

We know that Alioth can consume branched timelines instantly, and that to end the Multiversal War he had to do exactly the same with the countless timelines or "trees" (structures with an uncountable amount of timelines) since otherwise the branching would prevent him from doing so since there would be uncountable new timelines at every passing/singular moment

and we have no way or contexts on how he does this, but it is certain he is not doing it physically

Did you even see the episode? Loki and Sylvie just mind controlled him

I should have clarified, "I meant the one who remains" who could capture alioth to do his biddings.

 

[RoTt35]

and we have no way or contexts on how he does this, but it is certain he is not doing it physically

His powers work that way, he consumes space and time to destroy timelines instantly

I should have clarified, "I meant the one who remains" who could capture alioth to do his biddings.

And how is that an anti-feat?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

and we have no way or contexts on how he does this, but it is certain he is not doing it physically

Still count, If it is not physically, it should still be mentioned on the page

I should have clarified, "I meant the one who remains" who could capture alioth to do his biddings.

that not affect the thread

 

[PrinceofPein]

His powers work that way, he consumes space and time to destroy timelines instantly

Unless you are claiming space and time are not infinite in MCU, this point is weird, as Alioth is pretty slow and not so large that he can actually do it physically.

Also is it your claim that he destroyed uncountable infinite amount of universes?

And how is that an anti-feat?

The one who remains, is pretty much loki tier physically if not weaker

Still count, If it is not physically, it should still be mentioned on the page

Not in the AP section and besides it is already mentioned on the profiles

 

[RoTt35]

Unless you are claiming space and time are not infinite in MCU

How did you come to that conclusion? As mentioned on the cosmology page there are infinite instances of time always occurring at once on each timeline

as Alioth is pretty slow and not so large that he can actually do it physically.

Alioth's size varies with what he is consuming, as showed with the illusion of Asgard, plus it's already stated that Alioth can consume entire timelines instantly

Also is it your claim that he destroyed uncountable infinite amount of universes?

Yes, because that's what he literally did, He Who Remains harnessed the power of Alioth, weaponized him, and used him to end the Multiversal War between countless unique timelines (trees)

The one who remains, is pretty much loki tier physically if not weaker

And?

 

[RoTt35]

Besides this is already accepted, it is the reason why Alioth is 2-A since before the cosmology was upgraded to Low 1-C

 

[PrinceofPein]

How did you come to that conclusion? As mentioned on the cosmology page there are infinite instances of time always occurring at once on each timeline

And where did it say alioth consumed uncountable infinite timelines? since the verbatim that was used was "i weaponized him and ended the multiversal war" nothing about him consuming uncountable infinite timelines

Alioth's size varies with what he is consuming, as showed with the illusion of Asgard, plus it's already stated that Alioth can consume entire timelines instantly

branched realities, that is before they become a full fledged timeline, the ones still branching out. Also ability to consume 1 or few timelines does not equal consuming uncountable infinite of it

Yes, because that's what he literally did, He Who Remains harnessed the power of Alioth, weaponized him, and used him to end the Multiversal War between countless unique timelines (trees)

With which method?

And?

if alioth was physically low 1-C, he who remains will not have the power to interact with it

Besides this is already accepted, it is the reason why Alioth is 2-A since before the cosmology was upgraded to Low 1-C

it honestly should not be on the profiles even the 2-A, it is too speculative.
Anyway since this is accepted already, it will be fine since the 2-A needs to go before this can be rejected, I will just make a thread later

 

[RoTt35]

And where did it say alioth consumed uncountable infinite timelines? since the verbatim that was used was "i weaponized him and ended the multiversal war" nothing about him consuming uncountable infinite timelines

The Multiversal War was a war between countless unique timelines or trees (which as explained in the cosmology page are structures with an uncountable amount of timelines ad infinitum), Alioth's power is to consume space and time as explained by He Who Remains

Also ability to consume 1 or few timelines does not equal consuming uncountable infinite of it

Well he did, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to end the Multiversal War

With which method?

By consuming space and time

if alioth was physically low 1-C, he who remains will not have the power to interact with it

5D power is not the same as 5D existence, Alioth is still 3D physically

 

[PrinceofPein]

The Multiversal War was a war between countless unique timelines or trees (which as explained in the cosmology page are structures with an uncountable amount of timelines ad infinitum),

again you did not answer the question I asked

Alioth's power is to consume space and time as explained by He Who Remains

This video is blocked so I cannot see it

Well he did, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to end the Multiversal War

We were not told how he ended the war though, he may have just consumed all versions of the one who remains across the time also

By consuming space and time

this was not stated though

5D power is not the same as 5D existence, Alioth is still 3D physically

There is no such thing as larger than 5D, while remaining 3D, if he consumes them instantly how he eats things he needs to be larger to begin with

 

[RoTt35]

again you did not answer the question I asked

Because that was what he said right after stating that Alioth can consume time and space itself, and because that's the only power he has, devour timelines

This video is blocked so I cannot see it

This works?

We were not told how he ended the war though, he may have just consumed all versions of the one who remains across the time also

Alioth never showed or was stated to be able to do that, unlike being able to consume entire timelines instantly

There is no such thing as larger than 5D, while remaining 3D, if he consumes them instantly how he eats things he needs to be larger to begin with

When he is consuming the timelines yes, but initially when he was found by He Who Remains no. Also we don't know how HWR weaponized him, he is an immortal being who wrote all the time of the Sacred Timeline and exists outside of time and space

 

[Aachintya31]

Out of a sudden, Alioth's feat has become vague. Even when the timelines were Low 2-C he was 2-A for ending the multiversal war. If someone wants to change that, it requires it own CRT, there is no point of throwing headcanons here.
I am in favour of possibly.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I agree with the OP

 

[Lacku]

agree

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[Gasper]

Agree

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I completely agree, that seems pretty fair.

 

[Lonkitt]

I agree. Seems reasonable

 

[Reiner04]

Agreed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Alioth to destroy countless structures with an uncountable amount of 2-A timelines, of which in each one of them every passing/singular moment can branch out indefinitely into infinite realities and possibilities with infinite instances of time always occurring at once,

Alioth would only need to destroy the inital point to cut off all branches. Which only requires going to the Big Bang and then deleting everything.

Likewise, as I already clarified at the beginning, we don't know how Alioth destroyed the timelines, therefore I'm only proposing a "possibly Low 1-C" for him.

I mean. I guess I'm not fully against a possibly rating but I don't see Alioth really being at that level.

 

[Aachintya31]

Alioth would only need to destroy the inital point to cut off all branches. Which only requires going to the Big Bang and then deleting everything.

You are suggesting He is Low 2-C

 

[Qawsedf234]

You are suggesting He is Low 2-C

The multiverse begins with thr Big Bang and then branches off based on the free choice of sentient beings.

All you need to do is go back far enough that it's after the Big Bang and you can destroy timelines before they ever began.

If you meant that I was saying that Alioth is just Low 2-C, then no. I wasn't saying that.

 

[Aachintya31]

All you need to do is go back far enough that it's after the Big Bang and you can destroy timelines before they ever began.

That requires a lot of assumptions. In that way not even he who remains should exist.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That requires a lot of assumptions

It doesn't. Spider-Man has stated that the multiverse works based on the expansion of the Big Bang and the Watcher states its choice that creates different events.

All you need to do in order to prune any timeline is go back to the origin of any choice and destroy it. Which involves going to the Big Bang when no one was alive yet other than Arhiman.

 

[RoTt35]

Alioth would only need to destroy the inital point to cut off all branches. Which only requires going to the Big Bang and then deleting everything.

Do you have proof that removing the initial point consequently deletes all the branches? Because that isn't really supported:

• The branches are space temporally separated from each other.
• The TVA could only delete branches up to a certain point of no return, that being when the branches themselves didn't branch, if deleting the initial branch will also delete its branches, that wouldn't be a problem for the TVA.
• Doctor Strange Supreme only destroyed his own timeline without affecting its branches.
• The branches expand indefinitely at all points in time, including back in the past, so the starting point isn't always the same.
• Since Endgame we already know that changing the past does not alter the future.

the Watcher states its choice that creates different events.

Not only choices create branches, but also every passing/singular moment can branch into infinite realities and possibilities, and there are infinite instances of time always occurring at once

 

[RoTt35]

I mean. I guess I'm not fully against a possibly rating but I don't see Alioth really being at that level.

If you don't agree with Alioth just having a possibly Low 1-C I guess that includes the other characters as well?

 

[Aachintya31]

All you need to do in order to prune any timeline is go back to the origin of any choice and destroy it. Which involves going to the Big Bang when no one was alive yet other than Arhiman.

Destroying a moment of timeline is High 3-A or Low 2-C , in that way we can't justify his current tier .

It doesn't. Spider-Man has stated that the multiverse works based on the expansion of the Big Bang and the Watcher states its choice that creates different events.

Also Destroying starting of a timeline does not necessarily destroys all its branches, the branches are spatiotemporally separate. We have various instances of one timeline being affected does not affect other universes as stated by watcher.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do you have proof that removing the initial point consequently deletes all the branches

Because any split requires a choice to be made, which is how they Spiral into infinity. They start with a 0 point and then expand infinitely. To stop the expansion you would just need to prune everything that comes after 0.

The TVA could only delete branches up to a certain point of no return, that being when the branches themselves didn't branch

Because once they branch they spiral out again into infinity, like what we saw with the video screen on the multiverse reforming.

Doctor Strange Supreme only destroyed his own timeline without affecting its branches.

Doctor Strange's timeline can't branch out anymore. No future vacations of that universe can exist because he collapsed that.

Now imagine instead of doing that billions of years down the road he did it a microsecond after Ahriman made the universe.

including back in the past, so the starting point isn't always the same.

They all start with the same origin point though. No alt-universe begins before the big bang and Ahriman.

If you don't agree with Alioth just having a possibly Low 1-C I guess that includes the other characters as well?

If Alioth doesn't have it I don't see why they would.

But if Alioth does have it they would also have it of course.

Destroying a moment of timeline is High 3-A or Low 2-C , in that way we can't justify his current tier .

Alioth destroys the entire timeline, which include the infinite alternate dimensions that compose them. While Low 2-C and 2-A timelines are used interchangeably in the MCU, in this context we've already accepted it as a 2-A showing.

 

[Aachintya31]

Alioth destroys the entire timeline, which include the infinite alternate dimensions that compose them. While Low 2-C and 2-A timelines are used interchangeably in the MCU, in this context we've already accepted it as a 2-A showing.

A recent Tier 2 revision made the feat of destroying a moment of time that causes a chain reaction kind of destruction of branches, it will be considered Low 2-C/High 3A.
FAQ

Consider that, once again, only direct destruction or creation qualifies. Just destroying the universe at the beginning of time and the timeline(s) vanishing due to the resulting causality paradox does not meet the requirements. This, in particular, means that one needs to take care that if multiple timelines, which branch off from each other, are destroyed, that it is not done by just properly destroying one timeline and the rest getting paradoxed out of existence due to their mutual past getting destroyed.

 

[Aachintya31]

Alioth destroys the entire timeline, which include the infinite alternate dimensions that compose them.

If i am not mistaken you mean

According to you Alioth destroys one timeline alongwith its infinite branches in one go which makes him 2-A.
But there are infinite number of timelines. If he does not destroy the entire Low 1-C structure at once it will take infinite time with zero progress to end the multiversal war

 

[RoTt35]

Because once they branch they spiral out again into infinity, like what we saw with the video screen on the multiverse reforming.

But that shouldn't be a problem if the TVA should only delete the first branch

Doctor Strange's timeline can't branch out anymore. No future vacations of that universe can exist because he collapsed that.

Every passing singular moment can branch into an infinite number of branches, it is just impossible that Strange's timeline hasn't branched in any of its infinite instances of time

They all start with the same origin point though. No alt-universe begins before the big bang and Ahriman.

What I mean is that the timelines also expand indefinitely back into the past. Besides, there are beings that existed before the universe and the Big Bang like Arishem and the Celestials, the six Singularities, the Dark Elves, and others that existed before time itself like Dormammu as stated by Ancient One and guidebooks

If Alioth doesn't have it I don't see why they would.

But if Alioth does have it they would also have it of course.

So you fully disagree with even just a possibly rating?

 

[Nostredam]

I disagree with the Multiverse being Low 1-C. However, the CRT arguing about it was already closed, so I can't say if I can put some input here, as this thread is about scaling and not cosmology.

 

[Reiner04]

So you fully disagree with even just a possibly rating?

I mean. I guess I'm not fully against a possibly rating but I don't see Alioth really being at that level.

Qawsed said he is not against possibly rating but solid, so ig he is pretty neutral but leaning towards not being on that Level.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So you fully disagree with even just a possibly rating?

I'm not against a possibly rating. I just want to make the arguments now because I'm complete against any future straight Low 1-C change.

 

[RoTt35]

I'm not against a possibly rating. I just want to make the arguments now because I'm complete against any future straight Low 1-C change.

Don't worry nobody is arguing for a straight rating, I'm just proposing a possibly and nothing more, btw could you ping some staff so they could give their input?

 

[Georredannea15]

Uhhhh... I'm not even sure this will even be "possibly".

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Like it was pointed out above in EG, doing anything to the past doesn’t affect the future and only spawns more futures. Agree with the upgrade.