MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Let me preface this by saying, I have no intention of becoming involved with MCU scaling on the site, and the last time I mentioned this it was taken far too personally by the supporters. This is just my opinion, and I don't want this thread to become a venue for a full blown debate about the subject.

But essentially my opinion is that the speed ratings for the verse are so comically beyond what the movies actually demonstrate that we are essentially willfully ignoring the majority of the portrayals and source material to pretend everything is happening many many orders of magnitude faster than it actually is, based on a small small handful of cherry picked instances.

I don't believe it's reasonable to think that nearly everything we see on screen is happening in relative slow-motion, and IMO the reality is that most characters, including those like Thanos, are more or less moving at human speeds. They aren't moving at supersonic speeds, and certainly aren't moving at the speed of light.

Thankfully the DCEU will never have to deal with human level speed allegations

 

[Deagonx]

Yeah WW and Superman are very blatant

 

[Reyne]

The moments that get me to believe some level of hugh speed reactions are Scott shrinking before the the compound explodes, while off guard, and Tony actually viewing everything in slow motion when his mansion is attacked.

 

[Tyranno223]

At the very least Thor moves fast enough to be visibly to Quicksilver and somewhat reacted to him.

 

[Reyne]

At the very least Thor moves fast enough to be visibly to Quicksilver and somewhat reacted to him.

Thor was actually aiming at an Ultron drone, according to some random piece of text somewhere. Possibly the script.

 

[Excellence616]

MCU CRT: Thanos is not stronger than Carol

Thanos’ profile says: While extremely wounded and near-death, he could overpower Captain Marvel. He did not, at most, this is some Lifting Strength scaling, not Attack Potency. We see later on the movie that Carol overpowered past Thanos in Lifting Strength too, so even LS is not a guaranteed...

vsbattles.com

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Let me preface this by saying, I have no intention of becoming involved with MCU scaling on the site, and the last time I mentioned this it was taken far too personally by the supporters. This is just my opinion, and I don't want this thread to become a venue for a full blown debate about the subject.

But essentially my opinion is that the speed ratings for the verse are so comically beyond what the movies actually demonstrate that we are essentially willfully ignoring the majority of the portrayals and source material to pretend everything is happening many many orders of magnitude faster than it actually is, based on a small small handful of cherry picked instances.

I don't believe it's reasonable to think that nearly everything we see on screen is happening in relative slow-motion, and IMO the reality is that most characters, including those like Thanos, are more or less moving at human speeds. They aren't moving at supersonic speeds, and certainly aren't moving at the speed of light.

Human lvl speed be like:
https://youtu.be/ic224dhaElo?si=uM5wCByayb9RH3cT

 

[Deagonx]

Human lvl speed be like:

Light speed be like:

 

[Reyne]

Human lvl speed be like:

 

[Deagonx]

You can literally see how fast the spear is moving dog. Two of the bullets even impact on her armor instead of the spear.

 

[Reyne]

You can literally see how fast the spear is moving dog.

Slow bullets

 

[Deagonx]

Slow bullets

You don't even see the bullets in mid air, they're so fast they look like instantaneous impacts. Two of them hit her armor.

 

[Reyne]

Could you imagine the budget needed to do this at all times?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

You don't even see the bullets in mid air, they're so fast they look like instantaneous impacts. Two of them hit her armor.

But you see her arms and spear movement which should be in the realm of subsonic or sonic speed

 

[Deagonx]

Could you imagine the budget needed to do this at all times?

That's not really an argument in favor of it. They didn't do it. We can't assume they intended that.

But you see her arms and spear movement which should be in the realm of subsonic or sonic speed

Why? I'm not going to assume her spear is moving faster than we see on screen. If the spear was slowed down massively from being the speed of sound, the bullets would've been slowed down too, but they weren't.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Why? I'm not going to assume her spear is moving faster than we see on screen. If the spear was slowed down massively from being the speed of sound, the bullets would've been slowed down too, but they weren't.

Probably because Marvel doesnt want to have a 4 hours zack snyther cut

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Yep, human level speed guys

 

[Reyne]

That's not really an argument in favor of it. They didn't do it. We can't assume they intended that.


Why? I'm not going to assume her spear is moving faster than we see on screen. If the spear was slowed down massively from being the speed of sound, the bullets would've been slowed down too, but they weren't.

I'm not saying the any of these creative intend for their characters to be MHS or lightspeed or any of the power scaler bilge. Just that these characters do blocks bullets and react to things that are simply not possible. I think it is reasonable that slow mo isn't done more often because of budget, given how overworked artists have been, it's understandable that prolonging explosion #15 or blast #237 isn't really a necessity.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Yep, human level speed guys

His weebs are faster than lightning

 

[Deagonx]

Probably because Marvel doesnt want to have a 4 hours zack snyther cut

But you're making up reasons why the evidence directly contradicts you, instead of drawing a conclusion based on what... actually happens in the scenes. The spear isn't slowed down, the bullets are clearly much much faster than it, which is why they impact instantaneously.

Yep, human level speed guys

You can literally see how fast Spiderman is moving. The only thing that moves remarkably fast during the slo-mo is the webs.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

But you're making up reasons why the evidence directly contradicts you, instead of drawing a conclusion based on what... actually happens in the scenes. The spear isn't slowed down, the bullets are clearly much much faster than it, which is why they impact instantaneously.

It just appears like that but again to react to bullets she would be already moving at above human level by a considerable amount but the fact that she had time to move the spear around it shows. And sure you can blame that but remember that we have the scene with the men shooting then cut and we see her moving the spear and doge it we dont even see the bullets entire path

You can literally see how fast Spiderman is moving. The only thing that moves remarkably fast during the slo-mo is the webs.

except even before than that Electro uses lightning which moving but Spiderman moves fast enough to dodge and put up a car in the way while seemingly moving normal human speed,

 

[Deagonx]

It just appears like that but again to react to bullets

...or she's reacting to the men pointing guns at her? Two of the bullets hit her dead on.

except even before than that Electro uses lightning which moving but Spiderman moves fast enough to dodge and put up a car in the way while seemingly moving normal human speed,

Other humans are moving in the scene at the same time.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I've rarely participated in MCU threads on this site, but I gotta say it's the verse that gives me some of the most cognitive dissonance as someone that has seen everything the MCU has put out. The speed stats in particular are insane, but yeah Tier 4 Thor is... something.

Let me preface this by saying, I have no intention of becoming involved with MCU scaling on the site, and the last time I mentioned this it was taken far too personally by the supporters. This is just my opinion, and I don't want this thread to become a venue for a full blown debate about the subject.

I'm a little confused why you felt the need to pop up into this thread and make this comment and then proceed to say that you don't wanna get involved into the scaling, knowing its a hot topic.

 

[Deagonx]

you don't wanna get involved into the scaling,

By "getting involved in the scaling" I'm referring to participating in revisions. This is a general discussion thread, which is an ideal place for expressing one's opinion without trying to get involved in the scaling.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

...or she's reacting to the men pointing guns at her? Two of the bullets hit her dead on.

We clearly see she moving after the bullet was fired, and most likely she let those bullets go because they would hit her armour

Other humans are moving in the scene at the same time.

No, humans only show up later not when Electro directly throws lightning at spiderman's face

 

[Deagonx]

Sure man. Agree to disagree. I don't care to go in circles about it, I've made my stance clear that I think it's flatly ridiculous.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

By "getting involved in the scaling" I'm referring to participating in revisions. This is a general discussion thread, which is an ideal place for expressing one's opinion without trying to get involved in the scaling.

Sure, that's fine not wanting to make revisions, but it seems oddly baity to come in and throw in something that you've acknowledged as a heated topic.

 

[Deagonx]

I mean, if an opinion someone disagrees with is "bait" to them, then that's on them. People disagree all the time.

 

[Reyne]

I mean, if an opinion someone disagrees with is "bait" to them, then that's on them. People disagree all the time.

I'm pretty sure they're saying you saying you don't want to get involved, and then get involved, is bait, not your view on speed scaling.

 

[Deagonx]

then get involved

By "getting involved in the scaling" I'm referring to participating in revisions. This is a general discussion thread

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

So if we're voicing our thoughs on things we disagree with on MCU powerscaling, I think that the Star level scaling is a bit ridiculous. That feats is billions of times more powerful than anything else the characters in the MCU have ever shown, but ig we all forgot outliers are a thing and added it in anyways. A little while ago didn't we think that Large Country level was an outlier?

6-B pre-awakening and High 6-B/High 6-A Post-Awakening, awesome!
High 6-B/High 6-A pre & post-awakening, ehh, no thanks
Low 4-C pre & post-awakening, no

At the very least, pre-awakening characters should 100% not be Small Star level. If that was the case, why did loki need to use the bifrost when destroying Jotunheim? A single blast with Gungnir would've delt with that instantly. Why did ultron need to do his whole elaborate asteroid with a city plan when he could've just accidentally stepped a little too hard and wiped out all of life in an instant? Why did Tony need to weaken the core of Sokovia for Thor to destroy it? Is the city of Sokovia harder to destroy than a small star?

I really don't see how in the actual hell this got passed

Also how did Hulk scaling to Thanos get passed? Iron Spider could tank hits from Thanos without too much damage. Doc Oc could do more damage to the Iron Spider than Thanos did. Star level Raimi-Verse? All the Spider-Men are relative to each other. Star level Amazing Spider-Man duology? Totally makes sense seeing how Lizard got hurt by M16s and Spider-Man was bleeding after a shot from a police officers Glock 17. Star level firearms? I think I know my next CRT guys. There are just as ridiculous as the examples we have in the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC comics.

We have outliers on this wiki for a reason, and at minimum this is a massive outlier for Pre-Awakened characters. It's also an outlier for Post-Awakened characters imo, but it's at least a little bit more understandable

If there's a CRT working on this could someone link it to me?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If there's a CRT working on this could someone link it to me?

Ongoing CRT to remove the notion that Thanos is stronger than Captain Marvel - https://vsbattles.com/threads/mcu-crt-thanos-is-not-stronger-than-carol.162063/page-3#post-6240673

CRT to scrap Pre-Awakening/Post-Awakening scaling - https://vsbattles.com/threads/mcu-high-tiers-star-lvl-revision.161954/page-8#post-6240475


Though there hasn’t been one to axe Hulk’s Thanos scaling yet.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

So if we're voicing our thoughs on things we disagree with on MCU powerscaling, I think that the Star level scaling is a bit ridiculous. That feats is billions of times more powerful than anything else the characters in the MCU have ever shown, but ig we all forgot outliers are a thing and added it in anyways. A little while ago didn't we think that Large Country level was an outlier?

6-B pre-awakening and High 6-B/High 6-A Post-Awakening, awesome!
High 6-B/High 6-A pre & post-awakening, ehh, no thanks
Low 4-C pre & post-awakening, no

At the very least, pre-awakening characters should 100% not be Small Star level. If that was the case, why did loki need to use the bifrost when destroying Jotunheim? A single blast with Gungnir would've delt with that instantly. Why did ultron need to do his whole elaborate asteroid with a city plan when he could've just accidentally stepped a little too hard and wiped out all of life in an instant? Why did Tony need to weaken the core of Sokovia for Thor to destroy it? Is the city of Sokovia harder to destroy than a small star?

I really don't see how in the actual hell this got passed

Also how did Hulk scaling to Thanos get passed? Iron Spider could tank hits from Thanos without too much damage. Doc Oc could do more damage to the Iron Spider than Thanos did. Star level Raimi-Verse? All the Spider-Men are relative to each other. Star level Amazing Spider-Man duology? Totally makes sense seeing how Lizard got hurt by M16s and Spider-Man was bleeding after a shot from a police officers Glock 17. Star level firearms? I think I know my next CRT guys. There are just as ridiculous as the examples we have in the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC comics.

We have outliers on this wiki for a reason, and at minimum this is a massive outlier for Pre-Awakened characters. It's also an outlier for Post-Awakened characters imo, but it's at least a little bit more understandable

If there's a CRT working on this could someone link it to me?

The CRT to dowgrade them back was already accepted just not applied yet, only Carol will scale to low 4-C because she made the feat herself and it was important to the movie itself to the point it cant be ignored. i think Quantum bands and their users will keep the low 4-C

 

[Reyne]

Ikaris could output country level energy without issue but he can't get out from under Deviants who can be harmed by shotguns.

Like, the cloud feat is the definition of outlier.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Full Power Kamala is one-shotting Hulk and Thor, unironically based

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Full Power Kamala is one-shotting Hulk and Thor, unironically based

Well pretty sure she doesnt even know how to properly use the bands so hardly

 

[Excellence616]

Full Power Kamala is one-shotting Hulk and Thor, unironically based

Like, fodders to Hulk and Thor are stronger than them in MCU.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Why are the quantum bands on "standard equipment" in captain Marvel's profile? She used it for a few seconds on a movie and she aint even using them by the end, if it was me that wouldnt be not even on optional gear surely not on standard equipment

 

[Reyne]

Why are the quantum bands on "standard equipment" in captain Marvel's profile? She used it for a few seconds on a movie and she aint even using them by the end, if it was me that wouldnt be not even on optional gear surely not on standard equipment

I think it's because she was waring one when unpacking at the house, as if she'll be keeping it with her from now on.

Mam, I don't think we'll be seeing those sweet new duds going forward, given they were one of a kind.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I think it's because she was waring one when unpacking at the house, as if she'll be keeping it with her from now on.

Mam, I don't think we'll be seeing those sweet new duds going forward, given they were one of a kind.

She was unpacking boxes at "kamala´s house"