LuciferX
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The problem is, there are no major contradictions between cosmologies of each authors.
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Marvel DeMatteis Word of God Revision
- Thread starter The_2nd_Existential_Seed
- Start date
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- marvel comics word of god
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- #122
The depiction of The Nexus is a clear major contradiction, at least focusing on DeMatteis for a minute.
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I agree. The split should happen based on the ideals of the authors, I’ve read Strange Tales and Man Things and wow is it a little bizarre to compare it to mainstream Marvel especially one with Hickman and Ewing.
Excellence616
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Not much of a cosmology expert but i will try and help out.
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Thank you very much for the help.
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Well, there is certainly a major difference in scale between the Hickman/Ewing cosmology and that of Mark Gruenwald as far as I am aware.
LuciferX
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How many cosmologies going to divide in cosmolgy split btw? I'm not a marvel expert, but will try to help you.
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Well, I think that the classic era Mark Gruenwald cosmology and its main contributors, the modern Al Ewing/Jonathan Hickman cosmology, and the J.M. DeMatteis cosmology that did its own thing, should probably be sufficient.
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Ant shouldn't we finish the DC Cosmology split first before this one?
Excellence616
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Bump
Excellence616
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Seems like @The_2nd_Existential_Seed got DeMatties cosmology covered
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Mark Gruenwald and his collaborators, Al Ewing's and Jonathan's Hickman's modern cosmology, and that of DeMatteis, who always does his own thing.
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This seems to be feasible and we need to look at much of the basics because, like DC, Marvel has some inconsistency.
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Yes, but given that Ultima is doing a revision currently, we will have to investigate if there are serious inconsistencies between the nature and scale of the cosmologies afterwards.
Can I add you as a project participant/researcher then?
Can I add you as a project participant/researcher then?
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Sure but I think Ultima post has to be overlooked a bit more.
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- #139
The main issue is that with Ultima's current revisions, if they are accepted, what happens in Part 2 will determine what happens to the Dream, God / Collective Unconscious Scaling and True Nexus scaling
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And yggdrasil and Asgard as well
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Fair enough at least Yggdrassil would be affected (and maybe Asgard ?) but I was focusing on DeMatteis since this is a DeMatteis thread.
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Ah i see. I just think Asgard could potentially scale to low 1-A and Yggdrasil should get a profile with two keys, one being "Emanations" and "true form" or something.
Emanations scale to at least to low 1-A and true form to whatever tier Multi -Eternity gets.
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Okay so uh Bump to discuss this. Also because it's the perfect place to discuss this without derailing the Staff thread.
Considering the Nexus Fragment Scaling [Gap between a Human and Eternity] , combined with DeMatteis heavily favoring Composite for his depiction of Marvel by his own definition of canon and what he portrays in his comics... Assuming the planned revisions goes through
I think we'd get some really crazy results for the DeMatteis exclusive stuff, like Adam Ka'dmon, Man-Thing (He'd get some really stupid hax), "Power of Love" / Ka'dmon amped Spider-Man (I doubt he'd get a key though since it's only one issue and he isn't even important in lore) , Fallen Stars.
Maya causes a lot of scaling conundrum despite scaling to this so either Dr.Strange got amped or we ignore her outright. Same with Surfer facing The Savior, The Other, or Scrier, because he's consistently implied to be immensely below them.
Now Ultima is definitely planning higher than 1-A for the Multiverse Eternity
I think we'd get some really crazy results for the DeMatteis exclusive stuff, like Adam Ka'dmon, Man-Thing (He'd get some really stupid hax), "Power of Love" / Ka'dmon amped Spider-Man (I doubt he'd get a key though since it's only one issue and he isn't even important in lore) , Fallen Stars.
Maya causes a lot of scaling conundrum despite scaling to this so either Dr.Strange got amped or we ignore her outright. Same with Surfer facing The Savior, The Other, or Scrier, because he's consistently implied to be immensely below them.
Excellence616
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Following . So what are you suggesting or implying?
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Okay so what I'm implying is:
Nexus: A singular Nexus Fragment allowed a Human to become one with Everything in the Creator's Dream, which should include Eternity, as WoG, Oblivion, and Ka'dmon heavily indicate he's in the Creator's Dream. The Fragments are High 1-A, but due to how much they amps, a Nexus Fragment merging with another back into the Nexus would apply the Human--> High 1-A leap to an High 1-A Fragment, and since the gap between High 1-A & 0 is akin to High 1-A & 1-A, it would result in 0.
Keep in mind that even if you disagree with them, the amp Man-Thing gets by merging with The Nexus would still grant him that tier, which would affect these Titans in DeMatteis Storyline Amped Man-Thing (3rd strongest), Amped Scrier (2nd Strongest) , and Daydreamers Franklin (1st : He's unironically ridiculous)
The Divine Creator: 0 (He's the Creator of the Dream and Nexus. He's literally stated to be The One Above All and his equivalent, so narration implies he's at least supposed to be comparable. If one variant is stronger I'll leave that up to others to decide)
Ka'dmon: 0 (He's stated to be a threat to The Divine Creator. Even if the idea he doesnt scale fully, the one who made the statement is aware of The Divine Creator's being the creator of the Nexus since they were there to hear it, so it'd at least mean he's in this league even if he isn’t an outright somewhat comparable being)
Man-Thing / Ted Salis: 0 via various haxes, amps, and with his job as The Men of Lineage
Fallen Stars: 0 (The Divine Creator's Emotions given Manifest. The Fallen Stars are described as capable of warping the Nexus, which requires significantly affecting it. Above Amped Strange who holds off the collapse of the entire Cosmology)
Power of Love Spidey: 0 (Holds back tbe Nexus. Defeats the Amped Walrider who curbstomps the Nexus Guardian who could handle the Nexus' powers by herself)
Job Burke: 0 (Above Ka'dmon)
Daydreamers Franklin: Unironically 0 (He unironically has the best feats and scaling to this through Man-Thing by how insanely casual he scales to the most Amped Man-Thing. While he is very important to DeMatteis stories and the events of Heroes Reborn plays a critical role in almost every major DeMatteis comic at the time, he only has 1 appearance so it's likely he wouldn't get a key)
Nexus: A singular Nexus Fragment allowed a Human to become one with Everything in the Creator's Dream, which should include Eternity, as WoG, Oblivion, and Ka'dmon heavily indicate he's in the Creator's Dream. The Fragments are High 1-A, but due to how much they amps, a Nexus Fragment merging with another back into the Nexus would apply the Human--> High 1-A leap to an High 1-A Fragment, and since the gap between High 1-A & 0 is akin to High 1-A & 1-A, it would result in 0.
Keep in mind that even if you disagree with them, the amp Man-Thing gets by merging with The Nexus would still grant him that tier, which would affect these Titans in DeMatteis Storyline Amped Man-Thing (3rd strongest), Amped Scrier (2nd Strongest) , and Daydreamers Franklin (1st : He's unironically ridiculous)
The Divine Creator: 0 (He's the Creator of the Dream and Nexus. He's literally stated to be The One Above All and his equivalent, so narration implies he's at least supposed to be comparable. If one variant is stronger I'll leave that up to others to decide)
Ka'dmon: 0 (He's stated to be a threat to The Divine Creator. Even if the idea he doesnt scale fully, the one who made the statement is aware of The Divine Creator's being the creator of the Nexus since they were there to hear it, so it'd at least mean he's in this league even if he isn’t an outright somewhat comparable being)
Man-Thing / Ted Salis: 0 via various haxes, amps, and with his job as The Men of Lineage
Fallen Stars: 0 (The Divine Creator's Emotions given Manifest. The Fallen Stars are described as capable of warping the Nexus, which requires significantly affecting it. Above Amped Strange who holds off the collapse of the entire Cosmology)
Power of Love Spidey: 0 (Holds back tbe Nexus. Defeats the Amped Walrider who curbstomps the Nexus Guardian who could handle the Nexus' powers by herself)
Job Burke: 0 (Above Ka'dmon)
Daydreamers Franklin: Unironically 0 (He unironically has the best feats and scaling to this through Man-Thing by how insanely casual he scales to the most Amped Man-Thing. While he is very important to DeMatteis stories and the events of Heroes Reborn plays a critical role in almost every major DeMatteis comic at the time, he only has 1 appearance so it's likely he wouldn't get a key)
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@Ultima_Reality
You can probably find some material for your J.M. DeMatteis Marvel Comics cosmology scaling here.
You can probably find some material for your J.M. DeMatteis Marvel Comics cosmology scaling here.
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Ah, thanks. This may help a fair bit.
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I... wasn't expecting Ultima to show up not going to lie.
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Now that i finally can contact you, what do you think about those scans:
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It happens.
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Fair enough. Alright then. Now that you're here, I'd like to be able to help with your project at least with DeMatteis Marvel side, as I'm quite the fanatic of his stuff for quite a few years. So I'm your girl if you need it.
I'm also genuinely interested on what The One Above All ends up composite wise after your scaling comes together in Part 2, as well, The Divine Creator / God is extensively implied to be TOAA by Word of God and through the comics, which essentially impacts the most important Cosmic beings in the DeMatteis scaling, hence why I'm so interested to know, if you're willing to share that is.
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I don't mind assistance. Feel free to provide whatever information you believe is useful, whether here or wherever else.
I'd rather keep that for when Part 1 of my revisions is concluded.
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I feel after Defenders: Beyond, TOAA may not be presented as the most powerful force. The Divine Creator in Mattheis’s view is supposed to be how we view an all-powerful being that is represented throughout any culture or religion.
The One Above All could very well still be at the top if we figure out what this “Engima” is and what he starts to represent after the world beyond to the place of the Creation process. If not then I think they should be separate.
The One Above All could very well still be at the top if we figure out what this “Engima” is and what he starts to represent after the world beyond to the place of the Creation process. If not then I think they should be separate.
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Alrighty. Understood. Also hm. Well. I haven't seen Defenders so I don't know how they treated TOAA. But yes The Divine Creator is supposed to be absolutely everyone's depiction of the idea of God all in one.
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In most of the older stories including Thor and maybe some Jim Starlin runs with every mention of TOAA.
He seems to represent a God beyond all gods but that only ever refers to each of the Cosmo's reiterations of the pantheons. We don't know how he stacks with Creators who supposedly who made that “limit” we see win the House.
There is something beyond “Above All” that is the limit of understanding and well until then TOAA may not be so supreme, especially with Uncanny X-Men stories introducing broken characters.
He seems to represent a God beyond all gods but that only ever refers to each of the Cosmo's reiterations of the pantheons. We don't know how he stacks with Creators who supposedly who made that “limit” we see win the House.
There is something beyond “Above All” that is the limit of understanding and well until then TOAA may not be so supreme, especially with Uncanny X-Men stories introducing broken characters.
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Wait Uncanny X Men made God tier broken characters ?
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I worded that wrong because I was trying to make it ironic with an uncanny character with levels of powers beyond all measure.
Miranda and Wiccan as the Demiurge somewhat come to mind. Not to mention the bleakness of Al Ewing's writing with those who began the process of Creation making.
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Tbh it's pretty clear toaa and creator are the same
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