• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Marvel DeMatteis Word of God Revision

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hello everyone. This is Seed. It has been, well, quite a while since I've went ahead and made myself a CRT. I've decided to once again make one. The reasoning for why I went ahead and did this is as follows:

  • I plan to revise the 'DeMatteis' Part of The Marvel Cosmology hence why it is crucial I make this thread.
  • The Marvel Comics are separated by Continuity, hence why a lot of the issues previously with a lot of what I did would no long be an issue since DeMatteis' is treated as it's own Continuity.
  • I needed to be sure if my logic is solid enough about how exactly to go about using said Word of Gods.
  • And, lastly, I need to find out what Tiers the Word of God would result in, because the Tier matters significantly.

All of these needed for this to work. Keep in mind however that this thread is NOT for "Is this consistent", or "Who exactly scales to this" . So please none of those sort of things in this thread. This is purely for determining if this WoG can be used. With that being said, let's begin:
  • In response to whether or not God is 'Omnipotent', DeMatteis answers the following: "Any time you see God / Creator mentioned in my stories, I'm referring to God. Not a comicbook character, but God. And your interpretation of that depends on your personal vision of God"
  • Whether or not it is a Leading Question I do believe does not matter. This is because how he answered, while answering the question, does not say anything outlandish or exaggerated in a way that would imply he is just waving it off. Also, the way he answered implied it was a way that bypassed the simple Yes/No Answer that Leading Questions usually attempt to narrow down to. How he answered is also consistent with his beliefs he's shown throughout Twitter, Interviews, and how he's previously written Gods, so it is supported pretty much by, well, himself and his works.
  • I do believe that by this logic, that anything we know for a fact he does believes is indicative of his God, or is how he defines God or his personal vision of God, can be used for scaling here.
  • When DeMatteis was asked if the Collective Unconscious as used in Silver Surfer when the Mergence first showed up is indicative of the Universe being Absolute Infinite as defined by Georg Cantor, he answers that "I do believe, at our core, We are all God and Absolutely Infinite". Funnily enough every aspect of this is supported by Chaos War Thor, his Strange Tales and ilver Surfer runs. Also, I do believe whether or not this is a Leading Question, he answered the only part that wasn't the question, but a descriptor of Georg Cantor's Absolute Infinite. This means he does in-fact believe that God himself is Absolute Infinite, which based on context refers to the Absolute Infinite described by Georg Cantor.
  • He also defines God as Everyone's Interpretation / Vision of God , which would support the idea you can use people's officially published interpretations / visions of God for them. This is backed up by his official site, which states the following " In concert with God (in whatever form you see Him, Her or It), we make a choice, every hour, every minute, every instant, about which cosmos we want to dream into being. And each choice spins out a chain of events, a new world, a virgin universe" . "I don't think this invalidates the faith of Camping and his followers—but it is further proof that God is far bigger than any one belief system" , "When it comes to God, it's my experience that there are rarely any simple yes or no answers. The Divine contains all answers, many of them contradictory!" . Apart this is nothing, together however it supports the idea that God as DeMatteis defines it is 'all' people's interpretation/vision of God.
And that is it. These two Word of Gods I would like to use in tandem with one another to prove that because he writes how he believes God is, God (at least how he describes God in Silver Surfer) is Absolute Infinite. Again, I want to know if I'll be able to use these WoGs, and the Tiers that would result in them, and if not, I'll have the foresight to make any adjustments to my notations.
 
Last edited:
I plan to revise the 'DeMatteis' Part of The Marvel Cosmology hence why it is crucial I make this thread
Great that's really important since DC are having Thiers and We wanted that for Marvel.
The Marvel Comics are separated by Continuity, hence why a lot of the issues previously with a lot of what I did would no long be an issue since DeMatteis' is treated as it's own Continuity.
This reduce the work of Marvel cosmology spilt.

Using WOG in my opinion should be used but i will wait for other Staff and members
 
Ah. Thank you al for your interest and cautious / definite agreeing with the thread.
Given DeMatteis' influence on Marvel, I agree with this to an extent.
Could you explain what you mean by his 'influence' and 'to an extent' ? From the intent of this thread, This was just a thread to determine if I can use this WoG the way I state in the OP for DeMatteis' Cosmology. Despite DeMatteis' stances on how Marvel's canon operates (which IF I do would still be how he works his continuity and still not cause a massive rewrite), this will only apply to his Marvel Works and not other individuals works.
 
Could you explain what you mean by his 'influence' and 'to an extent' ?
By 'his influence' I mean how plenty of writers that followed him respected him and how much of what he says about the Universe and God and whatever operates.

By 'to an extent' I mean that I don't agree 100% since I'm not super into cosmology stuff.
 
By 'his influence' I mean how plenty of writers that followed him respected him and how much of what he says about the Universe and God and whatever operates.

By 'to an extent' I mean that I don't agree 100% since I'm not super into cosmology stuff.
Oh. Okay. That is honestly true then. Thank you for your time.
So what you're talking about is TOAA is just a manifestation of the 'true god' in marvel?
Well, that is actually what DeMatteis has stated and that name was just one of his Aspects. But TOAA has never once been mentioned by name in DeMatteis' Continuity / Cosmology. He has only referred to a few things as 'God' in his Continuity / Cosmology actually.
 
DeMatteis has referred to The Divine Creator and TOAA as one and the same, and I do believe it is referring to TOAA, especially if you take Chaos War: Thor and the consistent concept of 'Divine Love' being their only weapon, but hir depiction is very different conceptually than most depictions of TOAA to be completely honest.
 
Yes, but those TOAAs are not treated as the same entity hut different Author's interpretations of the same entity. So we cannot say for certain if TOAA's aspect is The Divine Creator despite what other continuities depicts.
 

I needed to be sure if my logic is solid enough about how exactly to go about using said Word of Gods.
⬇️
The WOG in my opinion should be used if it didn't contradict the original work. In my own opinion that is.

And, lastly, I need to find out what Tiers the Word of God would result in, because the Tier matters significantly
I will leave it up for staffs and other knowledge members.
Am less knowledgeable about cosmologies
 
⬇️



I will leave it up for staffs and other knowledge members.
Am less knowledgeable about cosmologies
I personally think it does line up. DeMatteis' has stuff in his works [I.E: the nature of the Universes noted by the Quantum Reality] in place to ward it being some sort of outlier by ensuring what Humanity believes is reality is not what it really is but is an Illusion , plus his views of 'God' are directly reflected in just about everytime he mentions the ideal, plus Chaos War: Thor's Oblivion Speech to the Reader , and even the earlier Narration at the start of the Man-Thing 1997 comics, and The Silver Surfer Author narrations when Silver Surfer defeated The Mergence the 1st time, completely line up with the WoGs mentioned, and show that his views did not change in such a considerable gap in time (being quite literally a 10+ year difference where he still mentioned the concept) .
 
I personally think it does line up. DeMatteis' has stuff in his works [I.E: the nature of the Universes noted by the Quantum Reality] in place to ward it being some sort of outlier by ensuring what Humanity believes is reality is not what it really is but is an Illusion , plus his views of 'God' are directly reflected in just about everytime he mentions the ideal, plus Chaos War: Thor's Oblivion Speech to the Reader , and even the earlier Narration at the start of the Man-Thing 1997 comics, and The Silver Surfer Author narrations when Silver Surfer defeated The Mergence the 1st time, completely line up with the WoGs mentioned, and show that his views did not change in such a considerable gap in time (being quite literally a 10+ year difference where he still mentioned the concept) .
Then I agree completely with the use of WOG.
 
I suppose it's fine from a glance, but I there are others better to ask than me. But if he has such an influence on Marvel, it makes cosmology revisions easier, then maybe.
 
Um I literally acknowledge that in the OP Lucifer. Whether it is a Leading Question was not the point of the OP. The point is that even if it is a Leading Question, his Answers clearly don't fit the general responses for such questions , and said answers are directly supported by not only what he previously views God as in various examples, but practically everyone of his mentionings of the concept in Marvel dating back from 1987 to as recent as 2010s. I don't see why it can't be used if it's actively supported by the material and is consistent through well over 10 years of an gap between supporting material.
 

When DeMatteis knows the question is just someone trying to get information from him, rather than just somoene seeking a new perspective and understanding from him, he encourages self-exploration, like he does here. A lot of authors do that. A lot of authors don't really consider themselves the be all end all of their own works. However, their own opinion of their own worth shouldn't really be used to undermine how much of an obvious impact his stance on his views of God are, and It doesn't really take away from the consistency of his views of God, which has stayed consistent, nor does it really take away from the point of this thread.

Death of the Author only really works here, which is what you are attempting to do, if you can actively prove what he said in the OP is inconsistent of his views of God or showings of God in his stories , which I can confidently say after studying his works for over 2 years that there are none. Even in stories outside of Marvel you can clearly see his views of God coincide with how he portrays God in those works (look no further than Seeker of the Mystery)
 
Thank you everyone for giving your thoughts on this so far.
They were just giving their disagreements Robo. While I truly appreciate the backing up, I don't think the comment about saying they keep getting 'debunked' was neccessary.
 
Huh, do we give tiers to authors tweeting, "we are all God and absolutely infinite"? That seems weirdly lax. Not sure what this has to do with Cantor's Theorem though. JMD ignores that part of the twitter. Everyone being an infinite God is a core belief of an Indian cult that DeMatteis was part of, and a belief that is heavily present in his work.
 
We do actually give tiers if it's consistent , makes sense, and doesn't fall under DotA (Death of the Author). Well he actually does acknowledge it by referencing, and stating he does believe God is absolutely infinite, which in context of the tweet is referring to Georg Cantor's Absolute Infinite. But yes, you are 100% correct, though I wouldn't neccessarily call it a cult as that to some can be perceived as having a negative connotation to it. It is heavily present throughout a lot of his works, from Silver Surfer back in 1987 to Chaos War:Thor in 2010s.
 
Cantor's Absolute Infinity doesn't involve everyone being same as said Infinite God, does it?
Meher Baba's cult is more humorous than negative, for me at least. He doesn't end up as "God" in comics rather than reality.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No. It does not, and I didn't say it does. But the context of the tweet indicates that 'Absolutely Infinite' would be Georg Cantor's Absolute Infinite. It is combining the concept of Cantor's Absolute Infinite with JMD's concepts of God and Everyone being infinite. Whether or not Cantor's Absolute Infinite actually involves the concept of oneness with God is irrevelant when this is JMD's depiction of what he believes God to be within his works, and not Georg Cantor's..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top