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Mario CRT (Low 2-C Upgrade)

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DaReaperMan said:
Then... whats the point of varies? You may as well use Likely or possibly in that case.
Click to expand...
Because it shows that the character’s tier can change based on certain factors. Like, if a character is 7-A in base, but they can charge up and become 6-C, they would be ‘Varies. 7-A, up to 6-C.’
 
DaReaperMan said:
Gonna ruin my fun huh
Click to expand...

Modern Sonic Punching by TransparentJiggly64 on DeviantArt

me to your fun
 
Yes. You can use both Low 2-C and 4-A though.
 
LordTracer said:
Because it shows that the character’s tier can change based on certain factors. Like, if a character is 7-A in base, but they can charge up and become 6-C, they would be ‘Varies. 7-A, up to 6-C.’
Click to expand...
Varies heavily implies that they can be any tier in between, which makes the way we treat Varies extremely confusing to new or visiting people.
 
In other words I want to make a CRT when I get home to change how we treat Varies as a tier, but I'll put that off a bit
 
It shouldnt be ''possibly'' or ''likely'' Low 2-C, the Low 2-C feats are blatant, and iirc, there has more Low 2-C feats than 4-A
 
Alright, so it's about time I post here in detail. I will be listing direct and indirect feats; if people are curious of the difference. A direct feat is when a Tier 2 feat outright event happens such as Creating/Destroying a timeline. And Indirect feat is basically "They fought evenly with a force that has at least one direct Tier 2 feat and/or is accepted as a Tier 2 force".

Low 2-C Feats

So the first and foremost thing is the Grand Stars addressed in the OP, it is a Universal power source in more ways than one. It can destroy and create the universe by warping the very fabric of time and space. This makes Grand Stars Low 2-C and those physically amped by it Tier 2. Now to go over all 12 bosses amplified by Grand Stars.
  • Admittedly, Bowser Jr's mech are defeated by using their own weapons against him or by breaking glass to release the Power Star often. But they still should have the Low 2-C pool of energy. Though there are times where the mech still takes a couple direct hits and Mario can somewhat withstand certain blasts from the mechs.
  • And in the 1st Galaxy game, Bowser doesn't carry his Grand Stars, it's his various reactors, but King Kaliante still has one physically.
  • But there are 3 Bowser fights where he literally eats a Grand Star, how power skyrockets beyond normal, meaning he's physically amped by a artifact capable of Low 2-C shenanigans thus Low 2-C outright. So that's at least 4 Low 2-C feats from the galaxy games.
Next on the list is the Black Jewel. It is described as a parallel world/Universe depending on translation, and it contains starry skies and the like. This makes it 4-A sized at bare minimum, but parallel world would logically mean it is parallel to either planet Earth or the Universe. But it can't mean the former if it has an entire body of space + starry skies. And the Nintendo of Europe website which is more up to date than the old school guidebooks outright says Universe which further points to it meaning universe. Black Jewel's magical lasers are also the same universal power source as his casual creation, which would logically make it scale. And Wario tanks it and trade blows, and said dimension is also destroyed in the process. Stabalization feats aside, it is still hint that the creation feat happened and backed up by universal powers makes it pointed to universal. So that feat #5.

Sammer Kingdom is discussed countless times and agreed to be the Space-Time collapse of an entire dimension. And the following narrative outright states Mario, Peach, and Bowser outright tank the feat. So it is directly a Low 2-C durability feat, but out including indirect feats, it's #6.

Origami King, I know it was brought up previously on the other thread. But I've been talking to folks on Discord. Some Japanese translations say "King Olly will fold the entire world and cause it to crumble" and something along those likes. We used to have "Bending the very fabric of reality" sounding too flowery in nature, but now it just says the entire world. Again, World can mean planet or Universe, but one of Olly's minions also caught the yellow Sun, and when he folds the world, the stars in the sky are also effected and included in his origami. So It sounds more logical to include the entire Universe. So it sounds like we yet again have a 7th feat.

Rosalina also has a Low 2-C shield, that much is obvious.

Now as for the regular Power Stars, it's implied Bowser used 120 to create 15 "Worldwide Dimensions". How big are these worldwide dimensions? They all contain starry skies and time that appears to flow differently. The sun never sets in the Mushroom Kingdom during all of Mario 64 so it is confirmation that the whole game pretty much takes place all on the same day in Earth time. But each of the dimensions have different day and night cycles. At bare minimum, they are 4-A sized. I do not thing "Worldwide" should be assumed universal by default, but they should mean very big. Like a lot bigger than painting sized let alone planet sized and the starry skies should be considered real stars. And also, the bottomless pit statement from the Clock dimension sounds vague and more game mechanicy. But the Infinite sand statement in the ruins might lean towards them being universes. And all the painting worlds are parallel to each other in nature. So I could see universal stuff but unsure about that. If so, that's assumed 120 Power Stars could perform more Low 2-C feats. I'm iffy about dividing them linearly though. It's consistent with the entire race of Lumas being able to perform a Low 2-C feat though, but difficulty assuming one can do a "Fraction of that". We see one do a galaxy level feat all the time which is going to be mentioned in the next section. But here's that.

7 Low 2-C feats at least are consistent for Mario and crew.

4-A feats and then some

Next of the batch are the 4-A feats. Worldwide dimensions if not proven universal they back up as 15 4-A feats via Power Stars. But on to the next stuff.

Lumas and Power Stars are the same exact thing, only different forms. Similar to black holes, planets, stars, or even entire galaxies. I know that there's some casual less than 4-A feats, but there's also Galaxy level feats in the mix. If the can blow up into galaxies and force all that energy back into themselves. Then that would also imply they're capable of forming into black holes with 3-C GBE. So that's also a lot of Galaxy level feats and galaxy level pools of energy. Those this might assume Galaxy level would be applicable if there's one attack that drains the one empowered. But individual attacks would appear in the 4-A range.

Brobot is a clear cut 4-A durability feat.

King Boo is a 4-A feat.

The collapsing of Pop Up Book dimension which consists of 6 4-A sized pocket dimensions was also a solid durability feat.

There are also plenty of High 4-C stuff such as Dreamy Luigi sneezing away constellations throughout Dream Team, Rapheal's constellation, and the Black hole closing and forming a power star, that size had High 4-C.

Also, Wario has his galaxy sized fart clouds to match Yoshi ******** out Power Stars aka galaxy level *****.

It's many 4-A feats but with 4 in our faces. But if there's more context on Mario 64's it could be Low 2-C.

Others

Now on to the scaling, every Power Star amped enemy should be 4-A at minimum. And Grand Stars are Low 2-C. Mario fights Bowser without or without power ups regularly so I can see possibly Low 2-C. But prefer to keep the 4-A low end to scale to characters like Toad, Birdo, Pom Pom, ect. But if Power Stars became Low 2-C outright, it would make them all Low 2-C. But again, I'm unsure about that.

These are basically my thoughts on the matter.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Alright, so it's about time I post here in detail. I will be listing direct and indirect feats; if people are curious of the difference. A direct feat is when a Tier 2 feat outright event happens such as Creating/Destroying a timeline. And Indirect feat is basically "They fought evenly with a force that has at least one direct Tier 2 feat and/or is accepted as a Tier 2 force".

Low 2-C Feats

So the first and foremost thing is the Grand Stars addressed in the OP, it is a Universal power source in more ways than one. It can destroy and create the universe by warping the very fabric of time and space. This makes Grand Stars Low 2-C and those physically amped by it Tier 2. Now to go over all 12 bosses amplified by Grand Stars.
  • Admittedly, Bowser Jr's mech are defeated by using their own weapons against him or by breaking glass to release the Power Star often. But they still should have the Low 2-C pool of energy. Though there are times where the mech still takes a couple direct hits and Mario can somewhat withstand certain blasts from the mechs.
  • And in the 1st Galaxy game, Bowser doesn't carry his Grand Stars, it's his various reactors, but King Kaliante still has one physically.
  • But there are 3 Bowser fights where he literally eats a Grand Star, how power skyrockets beyond normal, meaning he's physically amped by a artifact capable of Low 2-C shenanigans thus Low 2-C outright. So that's at least 4 Low 2-C feats from the galaxy games.
Next on the list is the Black Jewel. It is described as a parallel world/Universe depending on translation, and it contains starry skies and the like. This makes it 4-A sized at bare minimum, but parallel world would logically mean it is parallel to either planet Earth or the Universe. But it can't mean the former if it has an entire body of space + starry skies. And the Nintendo of Europe website which is more up to date than the old school guidebooks outright says Universe which further points to it meaning universe. Black Jewel's magical lasers are also the same universal power source as his casual creation, which would logically make it scale. And Wario tanks it and trade blows, and said dimension is also destroyed in the process. Stabalization feats aside, it is still hint that the creation feat happened and backed up by universal powers makes it pointed to universal. So that feat #5.

Sammer Kingdom is discussed countless times and agreed to be the Space-Time collapse of an entire dimension. And the following narrative outright states Mario, Peach, and Bowser outright tank the feat. So it is directly a Low 2-C durability feat, but out including indirect feats, it's #6.

Origami King, I know it was brought up previously on the other thread. But I've been talking to folks on Discord. Some Japanese translations say "King Olly will fold the entire world and cause it to crumble" and something along those likes. We used to have "Bending the very fabric of reality" sounding too flowery in nature, but now it just says the entire world. Again, World can mean planet or Universe, but one of Olly's minions also caught the yellow Sun, and when he folds the world, the stars in the sky are also effected and included in his origami. So It sounds more logical to include the entire Universe. So it sounds like we yet again have a 7th feat.

Rosalina also has a Low 2-C shield, that much is obvious.

Now as for the regular Power Stars, it's implied Bowser used 120 to create 15 "Worldwide Dimensions". How big are these worldwide dimensions? They all contain starry skies and time that appears to flow differently. The sun never sets in the Mushroom Kingdom during all of Mario 64 so it is confirmation that the whole game pretty much takes place all on the same day in Earth time. But each of the dimensions have different day and night cycles. At bare minimum, they are 4-A sized. I do not thing "Worldwide" should be assumed universal by default, but they should mean very big. Like a lot bigger than painting sized let alone planet sized and the starry skies should be considered real stars. And also, the bottomless pit statement from the Clock dimension sounds vague and more game mechanicy. But the Infinite sand statement in the ruins might lean towards them being universes. And all the painting worlds are parallel to each other in nature. So I could see universal stuff but unsure about that. If so, that's assumed 120 Power Stars could perform more Low 2-C feats. I'm iffy about dividing them linearly though. It's consistent with the entire race of Lumas being able to perform a Low 2-C feat though, but difficulty assuming one can do a "Fraction of that". We see one do a galaxy level feat all the time which is going to be mentioned in the next section. But here's that.

7 Low 2-C feats at least are consistent for Mario and crew.

4-A feats and then some

Next of the batch are the 4-A feats. Worldwide dimensions if not proven universal they back up as 15 4-A feats via Power Stars. But on to the next stuff.

Lumas and Power Stars are the same exact thing, only different forms. Similar to black holes, planets, stars, or even entire galaxies. I know that there's some casual less than 4-A feats, but there's also Galaxy level feats in the mix. If the can blow up into galaxies and force all that energy back into themselves. Then that would also imply they're capable of forming into black holes with 3-C GBE. So that's also a lot of Galaxy level feats and galaxy level pools of energy. Those this might assume Galaxy level would be applicable if there's one attack that drains the one empowered. But individual attacks would appear in the 4-A range.

Brobot is a clear cut 4-A durability feat.

King Boo is a 4-A feat.

The collapsing of Pop Up Book dimension which consists of 6 4-A sized pocket dimensions was also a solid durability feat.

There are also plenty of High 4-C stuff such as Dreamy Luigi sneezing away constellations throughout Dream Team, Rapheal's constellation, and the Black hole closing and forming a power star, that size had High 4-C.

Also, Wario has his galaxy sized fart clouds to match Yoshi ******** out Power Stars aka galaxy level *****.

It's many 4-A feats but with 4 in our faces. But if there's more context on Mario 64's it could be Low 2-C.

Others

Now on to the scaling, every Power Star amped enemy should be 4-A at minimum. And Grand Stars are Low 2-C. Mario fights Bowser without or without power ups regularly so I can see possibly Low 2-C. But prefer to keep the 4-A low end to scale to characters like Toad, Birdo, Pom Pom, ect. But if Power Stars became Low 2-C outright, it would make them all Low 2-C. But again, I'm unsure about that.

These are basically my thoughts on the matter.
Click to expand...
This works as a compromise for now, but I will say that the lower end characters SHOULD scale to Low 2-C. Unless evidence proves otherwise (without AoE fallacies and arguments from incredulity), then I think it's legit for most characters.

Yes toad can bust universes, he is the best. deal with it

Either way, a new thread can determine whether or not 4-A gets removed.
 
not everything obviously, some characters depend on or have shown that they need power-ups to fight with mario.

for example: wiggler in some occasions it is seen that he needs some power up to face mario and company (Paper jam, mario 64)
 
TUHTPeaSkull12 said:
not everything obviously, some characters depend on or have shown that they need power-ups to fight with mario.

for example: wiggler in some occasions it is seen that he needs some power up to face mario and company (Paper jam, mario 64)
Click to expand...
this as well. There are plenty of bosses that are fodder until they are powered up.
deonment said:
toad is best mario character, luigi who? count bleck and dimentio what?
Click to expand...
Here's irrefutable, undeniable, 100% factual evidence that toad is indubitably the best Mario character.
 
Yes, I brought up on other threads that Power Stars turn fodder enemies into boss characters is one of the main driving points for why Power stars a legit amps.
 
Yeah, even if a staff member disagrees, they would be extremely outvoted in normal votes and staff votes, and now that a knowledgeable member is supporting this, I think it's time to apply 4-A, Likely Low 2-C and then make a new thread discussing scaling.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Now as for the regular Power Stars, it's implied Bowser used 120 to create 15 "Worldwide Dimensions". How big are these worldwide dimensions? They all contain starry skies and time that appears to flow differently. The sun never sets in the Mushroom Kingdom during all of Mario 64 so it is confirmation that the whole game pretty much takes place all on the same day in Earth time. But each of the dimensions have different day and night cycles. At bare minimum, they are 4-A sized. I do not thing "Worldwide" should be assumed universal by default, but they should mean very big. Like a lot bigger than painting sized let alone planet sized and the starry skies should be considered real stars. And also, the bottomless pit statement from the Clock dimension sounds vague and more game mechanicy. But the Infinite sand statement in the ruins might lean towards them being universes. And all the painting worlds are parallel to each other in nature. So I could see universal stuff but unsure about that. If so, that's assumed 120 Power Stars could perform more Low 2-C feats. I'm iffy about dividing them linearly though. It's consistent with the entire race of Lumas being able to perform a Low 2-C feat though, but difficulty assuming one can do a "Fraction of that". We see one do a galaxy level feat all the time which is going to be mentioned in the next section. But here's that.
Click to expand...
Minor details, but Bowser never had access to all 120 stars. He never found the secret stars, and his endless staircase was overpowered by 70 stars (80 in SM64 DS), putting his total stars between 70-105 in the original.

That aside, I agree with "At least 4-A, likely Low 2-C" currently.
 
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