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League of Legends: 5D Celestials

WeeklyBattles said:
Im genuinely curious as to what you would describe as sufficient evidence because both agnaa and ultima agreed that the evidence provided is more than enough to warrant 5-D
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Who agreed doesn't really matter and I don't see how that matters to your question.

And I'd say that being showcased to be beyond the same way any dimensional interaction would be more than enough.

The difference between 5D and 4D (Low 1-C and 2-A) is the same as the difference between 3-D and 2-D. Infinity and finity are impossible to seperate for a lower reality than your own. Weather a square has 20 kilometers of width and depth or infinite width and depth, with no height it still has zero mass.

If any of your quotes showed a superiority so large that they find no difference between infinite and singular realities magnitude wise would be enough. Some properly contexted transcendence statements would do, too.
 
@Ricsi There are numerous quotes of the void, which is the equal to the celestial realm in scope, being infinite in size in the second blog
 
Which ties in to what I said how?

Being infinite is 2-A. Being able to reach all of infinity with your powers is 2-A.

Being Low 1-C is being so powerfull that infinite universes or a single one are so insignificant to you that they both seem to not even exists.

Again, the idea is the same as a 2D construct with any width or lenght will still having zero mass or potential energy to a 3D person's prespective.
 
So, from what I've seen and from what Weekly told me, the Celestial Realm being Low 1-C seems fine. From what I gather, it resides on a higher plane of existence above the universe and its space-time, and the connecting point to it (the summit of the world, from what Weekly told me) warps reality to the point of showing people infinite other universes and possible fates, and making time cease to work altogether.

Anyone knowledgeable is free to correct me if there's something wrong with that.
 
If I can ask, how is that in any way beyond 2-A?

Being beyond the time and space of a single universe doesn't mean much.

Being able to reality warp infinite universes is 2-A.

Creating infinite realities is 2-A.

Stopping time in infinite universes is not exactly a tier thing, but still 2-A in scope.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Which ties in to what I said how?

Being infinite is 2-A. Being able to reach all of infinity with your powers is 2-A.

Being Low 1-C is being so powerfull that infinite universes or a single one are so insignificant to you that they both seem to not even exists.

Again, the idea is the same as a 2D construct with any width or lenght will still having zero mass or potential energy to a 3D person's prespective.
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Brcause theyre infinite in relation to a 2-A multiverse

Yeah, thats exactly the relation between the void/celestials and the multiverse. The void didnt even recognize the mortal realm as existing until the celestials butted in
 
If I can ask, how is that in any way beyond 2-A?

Being beyond the time and space of a single universe doesn't mean much.

Being able to reality warp infinite universes is 2-A.

Creating infinite realities is 2-A.

Stopping time in infinite universes is not exactly a tier thing, but still 2-A in scope.

Whether you transcend the space-time of a single universe or infinite universes doesn't really mean much in relation to tiering, really, since space and time themselves are the strata which comprise 4-dimensional space in the first place. If you transcend those, then you obviously transcend the latter, and thus rating them at "4-D" makes no sense.

Of course, we should separate cases where that kind of shit does scale to AP (i.e The Elder Scrolls Gods) and cases where it doesn't (I.e MCU Dormammu), but in cases where it does, it's Low 1-C.
 
@Weekly that just says "beyond time and space", not transcending it

@Ultima except that there have been 0 statements that show transcendence of time and spaxe
 
1. Time is assumed and defaulted as a 4-D construct. That's why destroying it gets you 4-D.

2. Let's all be calm and rational, here. I can feel the tension thick enough to bite. And I'm not hungry.

3. Ultima seems to make sense. I'll support the revisions, albeit they won't be very high into Low 1-C.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
@Weekly that just says "beyond time and space", not transcending it

@Ultima except that there have been 0 statements that show transcendence of time and space
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If being beyond time and space isn't transcending time and space, then what is it?
 
Hl3 or bust said:
@Weekly that just says "beyond time and space", not transcending it
@Ultima except that there have been 0 statements that show transcendence of time and spaxe
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there have been multiple, the exist in a place where the time of treality is all at one point, that is transcendence of time and space, Bard splits up the entirety of reality into layers, and they do not even view time as a linear thing.

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Nocturne/Quotes#Eternum:

"We transcend time."
 
Time absolutely does not have to be strata of any dimensional reality. Temporal axis do not need to be tied to that.

Time is the order in which things happen. You can be from a lower reality where cause and effect aren't a thing and you'd be ffectively beyond time regardless, as it does not affect you in the slightest.

Even by that logic, I do not see how in this case it's Low 1-C. They affect the individual time axis of infinite universes, that's what you need for 2-A. The tiering page makes it clear that you need to be able to alter or destroy or create infinite of soatio-temporql realities to do that.

The word transcend on it's own does not justify assuming that it is superiority to the point of higher realities.
 
The word transcend being used doesn't mean much.

Being beyond the field of effect already means that you "transcend" something, the wiki using it to mean that you are more than countably infinitely beyond something does not justify using that.

Assuming time is 4-D is done a lot because it's an axis of reality on top of dimensions. 2-A still needs you to destroy or control infinite of said axises so those aren't feats for Low 1-C.

Being outside or unaffected by time isn't enough either, and transcend by definition doesn't have to mean superiority, let alone on the level required for Low 1-C.
 
Most of the quotes in the first blog seem to be just 2A hax, not having a linear view of time can possibly mean they are type 4 acausals, i think. While the Void seems to be just infinite nothingness and a threat to a 2A multiverse, both 2A feats. Idk, but this don't seem 5D to me, but i'm no expert in tier 2.
 
Time absolutely does not have to be strata of any dimensional reality. Temporal axis do not need to be tied to that.

It doesn't, yeah, there can be models and frameworks where time is just a measurement of change and an aspect of 3-dimensional space, I get what you are saying, but that's not how we normally assume it to be. We always assume it to be an additional, temporal axis of a universe that's intermingled with the 3 spatial ones.

Time is the order in which things happen. You can be from a lower reality where cause and effect aren't a thing and you'd be ffectively beyond time regardless, as it does not affect you in the slightest.

Well, in the case of the Celestial Realm, it is a higher reality, no?

Even by that logic, I do not see how in this case it's Low 1-C. They affect the individual time axis of infinite universes, that's what you need for 2-A. The tiering page makes it clear that you need to be able to alter or destroy or create infinite of soatio-temporql realities to do that.

Yes, and to be Low 1-C, you need to exist on a higher level of existence than the one which the average universal frameworks exists. Some may say that assuming a character is Low 1-C for transcending a single universe is NLF, because they've never shown transcendence over infinite universes, but I personally think that makes no sense, since we always assume that universes in a multiverse reside in the same general level of existence, so if you completely transcend only one, then the same principle would apply to all others, unless the universes in question are somehow hierarchical.
 
Also, note that Taric, who had just view an infinite number of realities, couldnt properly percive a celestial projecting itself into reality
 
I mean, there's the quote of these same characters believing time to be an unneeded unit of measurement, which is certainly a far cry from being an axis of reality. But what I'm saying that each universe has an individual time and such, so being beyond one and all isn't exactly equal here.

Well, im the case of the Celestial Realm, it is a higher reality, no?

The only thing I saw a quote of in here about that was some dudes going there and watching a universe be born, and another dude living through infinite realities on his way there.

Yes, and to be Low 1-C, you need to exist on a higher level of existence than the one which the average universal frameworks exists. Some may say that assuming a character is Low 1-C for transcending a single universe is NLF, because they've never shown transcendence over infinite universes, but I personally think that makes no sense, since we always assume that universes in a multiverse reside in the same general level of existence, so if you completely transcend only one, then the same principle would apply to all others, unless the universes in question are somehow hierarchical.

Then what is 2-A?

How is destroying and controlling infinite of such frameworks not Low 1-C? Because their transcendence is that, creating and controlling the multiverse.
 
When did we go from dimensionality to tiers? Even if they happen to be 5-D, that doesn't make them low 1-C. That's like saying every being that is 3-D is 3-A and every being that is 4-D is 2-A. Unless I missed something they still need feats along the line of "creating/destroying or affecting vast (if not all) parts of the celestial realm" to warrent that tier.
 
RatherClueless said:
When did we go from dimensionality to tiers? Even if they happen to be 5-D, that doesn't make them low 1-C. That's like saying every being that is 3-D is 3-A and every being that is 4-D is 2-A. Unless I missed something they still need feats along the line of "creating/destroying or affecting vast (if not all) parts of the celestial realm" to warrent that tier.
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5D refers to them being higher realities. If they were "only" from higher spatial dimensions then it would affect neither hax nor AP and this would be moot.
 
I mean, I guess it could be Low 1-C by Ultima's standards of just being better than space and time, but then I ought to make a crt to put Bill to Low 1-C because he most certainly is above space (all 11 spatial dimensions confirmed) and time.
 
RatherClueless said:
When did we go from dimensionality to tiers? Even if they happen to be 5-D, that doesn't make them low 1-C. That's like saying every being that is 3-D is 3-A and every being that is 4-D is 2-A. Unless I missed something they still need feats along the line of "creating/destroying or affecting vast (if not all) parts of the celestial realm" to warrent that tier.
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The only people that could possibly get Low 1-C from this is the Dark stars from eating the void but regardless the dark stars are definitely getting upgraded to 2-A.
 
I mean, there's the quote of these same characters believing time to be an unneeded unit of measurement, which is certainly a far cry from being an axis of reality.

I interpreted the first quote as them just having an atemporal nature, tbh.

But what I'm saying that each universe has an individual time and such, so being beyond one and all isn't exactly equal here.

Why not, though? It's not like someone who transcends a single universe in an infinite multiverse would suddenly find themselves bound by another universe should they travel to one, because in this case, the universes are all on the same scale of existence, which is already transcended, so they would all be the same in their perspective.

The only thing I saw a quote of in here about that was some dudes going there and watching a universe be born, and another dude living through infinite realities on his way there.

There's that quote which implies that the Celestial Realms exists on a plane "above" Runeterra, and how the connecting point to it apparently twists time and reality to the point that the former ceases to function (Again, according to Weekly, at least). So yeah, I don't exactly see what's the issue here.

Then what is 2-A?

How is destroying and controlling infinite of such frameworks not Low 1-C? Because their transcendence is that, creating and controlling the multiverse.

2-A is controlling and/or destroying an infinite number of universes, all whilst affecting reality on the same level of existence as them. That's not the same as transcending said level of reality altogether.
 
I of course agree with Ultima. I would be honest I am not a huuge expert on this sort of thing, every verse I am knowledgeable of has been firmly 3D in power so this was a learning experience for me.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
I mean, I guess it could be Low 1-C by Ultima's standards of just being better than space and time, but then I ought to make a crt to put Bill to Low 1-C because he most certainly is above space (all 11 spatial dimensions confirmed) and time.
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I mean if he has the destructive range then I dont know why he is not but I don tknow Bill very well at all so shrug* I would certainly support the upgrade.
 
Ultima Reality said:
Why not, though? It's not like someone who transcends a single universe in an infinite multiverse would suddenly find themselves bound by another universe should they travel to one, because in this case, the universes are all on the same scale of existence, which is already transcended, so they would all be the same in their perspective.
Click to expand...
Yes, but someone that transcends one universe won't be able to just destroy infinte universes.

2-A is controlling and/or destroying an infinite number of universes, all whilst affecting reality on the same level of existence as them. That's not the same as transcending said level of reality altogether.

Then by what standard do you decide they transcend? Not by the definiton of the world, or else anything outside of time and space would be Low 2-C.
 
RatherClueless said:
When did we go from dimensionality to tiers? Even if they happen to be 5-D, that doesn't make them low 1-C. That's like saying every being that is 3-D is 3-A and every being that is 4-D is 2-A. Unless I missed something they still need feats along the line of "creating/destroying or affecting vast (if not all) parts of the celestial realm" to warrent that tier.
Click to expand...
Dimensionality gets you higher tiers when there is a clear showing of dimensional superiority. For one, saying "All 3-D is 3-A" is absolutely fallacious and literally nobody is arguing that. More accurately, it would be "All 3-D is in tiers 10-3 and all 4-D is in tiers 2" which still isn't accurate to the topic, given that LoL is showing clear dimensional superiority.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Yes, but someone that transcends one universe won't be able to just destroy infinte universes. Then by what standard do you decide they transcend? Not by the definiton of the world, or else anything outside of time and space would be Low 2-C.
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Yeah thats why they wont be 2-A but they would certainly be 4D.

They transcend above a 4D construct of infinite universes that should make them 5D but not necessarily Low 1-C.
 
They aren't showing spatial dimensional superiority.

There is a higher reality, I don't think I saw anything about it being about what way they move.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
They aren't showing spatial dimensional superiority.

There is a higher reality, I don't think I saw anything about it being about what way they move.
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Does being clearly superior to fourth dimension constructs such as time not qualify as superiority?
 
RatherClueless said:
that wasn't my point Mori
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Could you state your point? I took your words, and if your words didn't represent your point, then I require further clarification.
 
Moritzva said:
Does being clearly superior to fourth dimension constructs such as time not qualify as superiority?
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Not spatial, no.

Spatial higher dimension equaling tiering is the whole idea of higher dimensions viewing lower dimensions as nothing regardless of the amount due to having no mass by their prespective.

Being a higher reality in general isn't being a higher spatial reality. That also comes with being able to move and extra way.

Here they are just more stonk.
 
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