Kirby Helper Revisions

[Vrokorta]

I think the Kirby Helpers should be upgraded to Multi-Solar System level, & here's why.

Helper to Hero
In Helper to Hero, the Helpers can defeat King DDD, Dyna Blade, Meta Knight, & Wham Bam Jewel, all of whom are characters we list as MSS level (WBJ doesn't have a page on the wiki, but he's comparable to Masked DDD, Marx Soul, & Galacta Knight, being among the strongest bosses in Super Star Ultra, which would make him MSS level).

Star Allies
I haven't played Star Allies, but I've seen a good bit of it. I personally don't see why the Helpers wouldn't be seen as comparable to the other MSS level characters. If I'm not mistaken, they can fight all the same bosses, so they should be comparable. Even if this isn't the case, the aforementioned feats should justify an upgrade.

Conclusion
I don't see any reason for there not to be an upgrade, so what do you think?

 

[Eficiente]

You have a point, and if Cal and Azzy were active in Kirby threads we could all have an interesting discussion here. The reason why they are just 5-A is because of their position as the weakests beings in the verse, which causes their scaling with the 4-A beings to be ignored despite its consistency.

I personally don't disagree with that logic, but I do think that they should be 4-A through Summoning and with the final item in Star Allies (for those who can use that only).

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Helpers are considered fodder to every single worthwhile character though. Them scaling to beings that give Kirby trouble is fallacious when they get one-shotted by stray attacks and can quite literally be pooped out by faaar weaker beings.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That could just be game mechanics or Helpers are glass-canons.

 

[Eficiente]

To be fair, this would be way different if there were any statement of them becoming stronger upon helping Kirby.

@Prof Megaton Punch and (old) Bandana Dee being scared of fighting Kirby marks the difference of pure power.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Helpers are more stronger version than themself, created by Kirby or having a power boost by Kirby. Isn't why Kirby have Power Bestowal?

 

[Eficiente]

That would be Statistics Amplification. Kirby's Power Bestowal comes from giving others the Empathic hax he in term received from a space heart. When Kirby creates Helpers they don't have any new power, they just use moves they would normally don't use because lolgame mechanics.

 

[Arceus0x]

maybe we should just have two tiers for them. knuckle joe: profile pic of the normal version and a picture of his helper version. tier: 5-A 4-A

 

[Eficiente]

We already reject that. 2 pics are ok but it's kinda not important.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Okay, my opinion is: make two keys, one for base, the other one when amped by Kirby's hearts.

I don't think I need to explain why non-amped guys should remain 5-A.

But amped ones should be upgraded to 4-A. They're never portrayed through the game as being much weaker than Kirby, and they canonically help Kirby beating Void Termina, as well as other bosses, as they're present in cutscenes and images that don't change, independently from which helper you have (for example, I may have a team of three Ness but the image will always show three rocky Yes, I don't know the name of Kirby enemies) and they show Kirby going to fight Void Termina with friends, which also apparently survived the fight against Hyness...

This is one image, for example. [1]

 

[Eficiente]

The problem is that there is no evidence that they were amped by Kirby.

>"They're never portrayed through the game as being much weaker than Kirby"

With the above said, yes.

The other stuff remains as an outlier.

However, due to them being species I can see the Waddle Dees being "Varies from 5-A to 4-A" due to at least one of its members being that high. Which would put some others with scaling at those levels as non-outliers.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If there treated as fodder in the verse then I don't think we should upgrade them.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Actually, there is evidence. Feats. Normal ones are absolute fodder, friend ones can help Kirby fighting the strongest enemy of the saga.

 

[Eficiente]

But that doesn't mean they are amped. I mean, sure, it would make sense, and the original Jamba hearts had Statistics Amplification, but the Helpers had outliers before that.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

So you think they should have a key for Normal | Friends ?.

 

[Eficiente]

Already rejected.

 

[TriforcePower1]

But that doesn't mean they are amped. I mean, sure, it would make sense, and the original Jamba hearts had Statistics Amplification, but the Helpers had outliers before that.

Lol, I actually forgot about the Jamba hearts amping characters. Given that pink hearts seem to work similarly, that's something. What outliers?

So you think they should have a key for Normal | Friends ?.

Yes.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Already rejected.

Azathoth doing something =/= Accepted by the wiki even though sometimes it is...

 

[Eficiente]

To be fair, Azzy did that without previous discussions about it, but eh he's usually correct. You should ask him personally.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I think he did that because there hasn't been any thread about friends being 4-A more than he disagreeing with this.