[KIRBY SPOILERS] Forgotten Land Final Boss discussion

[The_real_cal_howard]

This is probably gonna be one of my last CRTs on here, if not the last so...yeah.

This is also gonna be quite long, so prepare yourselves. It's gonna be formatted like a blog. I'm not gonna post scans either. I'll do that if asked in the comments.

Also, warning again, SPOILERS.

MASSIVE SPOILERS

Anyway, I'm going to talk about the final boss, rodent Mewtwo Fecto Elfilis. Firstly, no, Elfilis is not Elfilin. So it didn't follow the Kirby trope of "cute innocent betrayer becomes god". Instead, he's just related to the god. But I digress. This thread is for discussing what the profile will look like once someone, probably me, will make it. It shouldn't get a profile yet though, as the ****** doesn't even have any official images yet.

The Ultimate Lifeform should have four keys: Fecto Forgo, Fecto Elfilis, Chaos Elfilis, and Chaos Elfilis (Soul). Fecto Forgus is the gross amorphous wall of assimilation, Fecto Elfilis is the final boss after absorbing Elfilin, Chaos Elfilis is the True Arena final boss, and Soul is the second phase of that. However, there should be two more images on the page itself, it being ID-F86, which is the ugly mouse fetus thing, and Soul Forgo, which is the form it takes before getting cucked by...well, we'll get to that.

Simple things out of the way, classification is Ultimate Lifeform and Invasive Species and ID-F86. Gender is...yes ("It" as ID-F86, Fecto Forgo, and Soul Forgo. "They" as Elfilis.). I can't even say genderless as Elfilin, his other half, is outright male. Age is well over 30. I forgot when in game they said that ID-F86 landed but it was a long time ago. 30 years was just when Elfilin separated from ID-F86.

Obviously the thing should scale to Kirby, but it's not featless. Talking about sheer stats, I'll list the potential tiering in this paragraph, along with its feats. Fecto Elfilis has a blatant large planet feat of using TK to yeet Planet Popstar through a planet sized portal it created to destroy both Popstar and the Forgotten Land's planet, probably through the Roche Limit effect. Other people I talked to say that Elfilis's dream dimension feat is uni/+. It creates a parallel world consisting of all the areas you've been to before made out of pure psychic energy, even the empty space is made of psychic energy, and it's implied that it did this before for the humans (debatable) that captured it to begin with, as they were able to exodus to a land of dreams, though it's possible that it could be referring to Dream Land, Kirby's universe. But Elfilis's would is a literal dream world. If legit, it would be Low 2-C, possibly 2-C, as the feat was done by ID-F86, its weakest form.

Now for the main reason I made the thread. The abilities. Because by goodness, does he have a lot of them, especially for a dude who made one appearance. I'll list them and the reasoning why, at least as many as I can off the top of my head.
Superhuman Physical Characteristics (no shit, sherlock)
Weapon Mastery (spear)
Mind Manipulation (Is how he got control over the beast pack + Dedede)
Absorption (...the amorphous wall)
Possession (possessed Leon in the postgame)
Soul Manipulation (split Leon's soul into 300 pieces)
Spatial Manipulation (the spatial anomalies said by the voice lady)
Portal Creation (caused the portal that began the game, and opens portals throughout the entire boss fight)
Duplication (Both of himself and others. The others are more important as he can create illusory copies that are both stronger and have more abilities than their real versions, and he can even copy characters he's never even met, like Meta Knight)
Healing (Only boss in the entire goddamn series that can heal himself mid-fight)
Teleportation (He's a Kirby boss)
Energy Manipulation (Fires energy lances and lasers on many occasions)
Illusion Creation (See duplication)
Power Mimicry (Through absorption)
Power Bestowal (Boosts the fodder versions of enemies into shadowy versions. This is shown before the postgame so its not just its duplication)
Telekinesis (Yeets meteors, skyscrapers, and ******* planets at Kirby)
Forcefield Creation (Tried and failed to use a forcefield to prevent Truck-kun Kirby from isekai'ing him. Also traps Leongar in a bubble forcefield)
Black Hole Generation (Again, is a Kirby boss)
Sound Manipulation (Corrupted the announcer lady's recording in his dreamscape (AND HERE WE ARE!!!))
Shockwave Generation (Done many times throughout the boss fight)
Darkness Manipulation (Creates a giant shadow avatar that follows its movements)

That's all that I can think of off the top of my head. You can throw some elemental things in there like tornadoes, wind, sand, and fire/lava through his phantom copies of Gorimondo, Tropic Woods, Sillydillo, and Dedede respectively. Besides the last one, which deserves its own paragraph.

Regeneration. Mid Godly. And really ******* good Mid Godly. Elfilis can't ******* die. First, Kirby destroys his body and removes his soul. But his mind survives this process and rebuilds its soul to possess Leongar as a new vessel. Then Kirby kicks Soul Forgo out of Leon. Then the ******* butterfly, Morpho Knight shows up and assimilates Soul Forgo into itself. Kirby then disassembles Morpho Knight, and Soul Forgo literally instantaneously recreates himself, steals some of Morpho Knight's power, and evolves into Chaos Elfilis. Kirby then again rips its soul out of its body, destroying his body in the process. Kirby then destroys said soul after fighting it, and said new soul can disassemble and reassemble itself at will, and then, and only then, does he finally die. Heck, he doesn't even truly die, as the last remaining part of him willingly gets absorbed back into Elfilin.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please discuss down below. I'll be waiting.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

I just posted about some of this stuff in the general discussion thread, but you covered it way better than I ever did, good job!

Forgotten Land is a weird case where I think every single event in the game is actually canon, no alternate universe "what-if" scenario, every event in the game is canon and every fight happens.

****** up we got a canonical Morpho Knight fight before a canonical Galacta Knight fight lol.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah it’s hilarious that the butterfly showed up before the temporal knight

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Btw 90% of the feats come from here and here

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I agree with this. I wonder what the scaling would be in between forms.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It’s just varying degrees of uni. The fetus is the weakest, yet still creating the psychic world, while the subsequent assimilation forms are exponentially stronger.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I’ll also throw in this:

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That…should be everything, I think

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Efi says the feat isn't uni but maybe there's better arguments for it being uni. Either way it doesn't need it's own feat as it scales to Kirby regardless.

Anyways this all looks good. Seems like Elfilis might be the most OP Kirby character just based on the regen.

 

[Everything12]

Agree to pretty much everything, my only real issues would be some parts of the Mid-Godly... but it did recover from Morpho Knight absorbing it's soul so I'm fine with it. Sound Manipulation but that is a ability so minor that I don't even really care to argue about it.

The Tier 2 stuff is something I don't particularly agree with as I don't feel theirs enough evidence that it's a universe and not a Pocket Dimension, but I also don't feel too strongly and would rather wait on the opinion of others first.

So agree to everything, but Tier 2 which I'm neutral to.

Oh. Also, they should probably get Creation/Pocket Reality Manipulation for the creation of Forgo Dreams.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Wait, I thought new games have to be at least a month old before folks can do a CRT about 'em? That is what I got from the Pokemon Legends: Arceus Thread. Could be wrong.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

oh, probably a good question to ask but the Regen would apply to Elfilin as well, right? Since it's literally just a part of Elfilis that broke off? Or would that not be accurate

 

[Arceus0x]

oh, probably a good question to ask but the Regen would apply to Elfilin as well, right? Since it's literally just a part of Elfilis that broke off? Or would that not be accurate

Idk maybe not since he never showed the same level of power

 

[Arceus0x]

Anyways do we have a good shot of the dream universe? I'm pretty sure that even the title of the universe that represents its theme has stars in it

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

about the dream universe, given how everything is parallel there, like exact copies, from the people to the planet, and the text for Phantom Woods implies a sun for Phantom Woods to grow as large as it did, there’s a lot of proof for it. Furthermore, after the defeat of Chaos Elfilis, the cleared sky shows a world identical to the Forgotten World. And Treasure Road mayyyyy be part of Forgo Dreams but it’s very unconfirmed

 

[Arceus0x]

Bump?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

On a related note, we should probably get Kirby's other Warp Stars on his profile. The ones from Air Ride, I mean. Shadow Star, Speed Star, Dragoon, Hydra, etc.

 

[Spinoirr]

a new kirby match up

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

a new kirby match up

Uh... did you post in the wrong thread, my dude? This is a content revision thread.

 

[Spinoirr]

Uh... did you post in the wrong thread, my dude? This is a content revision thread.

Thought this was the decision thread

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bumping this. I saw Fecto got a profile and…it’s subpar. It’s super cluttered and doesn’t exactly have the abilities here.

 

[Everything12]

Should I @ Ant and have him do his thing?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

sure

 

[Everything12]

I think adding some screenshot to help others who haven't played it and to add to the profile when it's made would be beneficial and easy enough to do.

@Antvasima
Can you call some other Staff for this Kirby CRT. It does focus on the final boss of a recent-ish game so you might want to warn about spoilers in the post.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There were some things that I missed that are in there, like the astral projection.

 

[Everything12]

I believe their are also some stuff about them that is mentioned in the figures. Mostly about the illusionary bosses, mentions of the mind control, talks about the butterfly feasting on Souls, and of course the final boss' figures themselves.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

yeah. Thanks btw.

 

[Arceus0x]

Bumping this. I saw Fecto got a profile and…it’s subpar. It’s super cluttered and doesn’t exactly have the abilities here.

and it already has two victorious matches in grace

 

[Arceus0x]

30 year old men in kirby be like:

 

[Alexander]

how powerful is this being?

 

[Everything12]

It's not like there is a thread aimed at creating a profile that gives feats and abilities for it or anything.

 

[Antvasima]

@Kirbyelmejor @DarkLordofShadows @Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou) @Eficiente @CrimsonStarFallen @Vrokorta @EMagoIorSouI @Bobsican @KingEzran @James_Plays_4_Games @Starter_Pack @DarkDragonMedeus @Moritzva @SamanPatou

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I haven't yet played the game, but plan to when I get my hands on it. But prefer to play it myself before basically judging the end goal feats.

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

I’ve read it over (at a brisk pace albeit) and every query seems valid. The bit about Mind Manipulation is especially good too, seeing how it plays into Forgo being the main antagonist of the game by corrupting and manipulating the Beast Pack in tandem.

The only part I’m iffy about is the tier 2 stuff. Not to be a stickler or anything, I can definitely see where the OP is coming from but more concrete evidence would be prudent if we were to for sure validate it.

Also, in the event it were to get accepted, would this create a new key or obsolete the 3-C rating for the Post-Star Allies key? I’d assume the latter, seeing how this game it literally the next installment from SA.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

 

[Eficiente]

Took me a while to find this thread. For reference, I pointed out in an ongoing CRT and discussion thread that the stuff from this game would be talked about in the former CRT, which had a sandbox being updated over time with Fecto's profile being made there.

The Ultimate Lifeform should have four keys: Fecto Forgo, Fecto Elfilis, Chaos Elfilis, and Chaos Elfilis (Soul). Fecto Forgus is the gross amorphous wall of assimilation, Fecto Elfilis is the final boss after absorbing Elfilin, Chaos Elfilis is the True Arena final boss, and Soul is the second phase of that.

As the profile points out, we don't know if that orb is his soul. Sure, in Void Termina's case the ball inside was his soul, but then in Nightmare's case the orb was just more of the same. The red balls around should also be physical as there were the rest of their body before being turned into that. They also have the title "soul chaos", but they already have it with a body, and can very much mean "they're evil, and descendant / with similar powers to something else" rather than being an actual soul.

Fecto Elfilis has a blatant large planet feat of using TK to yeet Planet Popstar through a planet sized portal it created to destroy both Popstar and the Forgotten Land's planet, probably through the Roche Limit effect.

As the profile points out, it wasn't TK but pressure from the portal.

Other people I talked to say that Elfilis's dream dimension feat is uni/+. It creates a parallel world consisting of all the areas you've been to before made out of pure psychic energy, even the empty space is made of psychic energy, and it's implied that it did this before for the humans (debatable) that captured it to begin with, as they were able to exodus to a land of dreams, though it's possible that it could be referring to Dream Land, Kirby's universe. But Elfilis's would is a literal dream world. If legit, it would be Low 2-C, possibly 2-C, as the feat was done by ID-F86, its weakest form.

So many issues with this

• Even if the place was a real dimension and universe-size, nothing would make it Low 2-C rather than 3-A
• It's made up to call it "parallel" and it is kinda fiction, but I'll elaborate later when you do so too
• In terms of when they did so there really is no proof they just did it at once, all the places are based on memories and beings based on specific experiences that Fecto has over time. No reason for the beings to be done over time yet the places be to done all at once
• It is not "possible" (For we, informative people) that they went to Dreamland, that's just a fan theory. "Dream" as a buzzword is often thrown around in Kirby, it can mean anything from nothing (a "land of dreams" being poetic for a very good place) to related to other places that better fit the word Dream like the Dream Kingdom, the Dreamscape or the dimensions that are countries of dream the butterfly can travel to. Dreamland doesn't even have Dream in its name in Japan. Mistranslations also don't show that they left their world because it became too small, yet Dreamland is simply a small country, it makes no sense for they to move from a regular planet to a small country.

Most of the abilities are correct, I even missed Weapon Mastery at the time.

Power Bestowal (Boosts the fodder versions of enemies into shadowy versions. This is shown before the postgame so its not just its duplication)

I don't have the game myself so I can't experience those foes with a black cloudy face having more power than their regular versions. If this can be proven with evidence, then it would be Stats Amp.

Forcefield Creation (Tried and failed to use a forcefield to prevent Truck-kun Kirby from isekai'ing him. Also traps Leongar in a bubble forcefield)

I barely disagree, we don't know what was that he tried to do in the first and the bubble being a forcefield is odd, the guy lacks a soul and is pretty much dead, the thing doesn't need to be anything more than a fragile bubble, if it isn't a bubble.

Black Hole Generation (Again, is a Kirby boss)

We don't know what the thing is. It is "pretty much a black hole", which is not the same.

Sound Manipulation (Corrupted the announcer lady's recording in his dreamscape (AND HERE WE ARE!!!))

Something being in their theme song isn't actually being listened. It's just poetic for fun and, giving a mere theory, to show they're crazy and/or they had a bad time back when they had to listen to that who knows how many times while trapped.

You can throw some elemental things in there like tornadoes, wind, sand, and fire/lava through his phantom copies of Gorimondo, Tropic Woods, Sillydillo, and Dedede respectively.

Some of this was missing so and I'll add them later.

Regeneration. Mid Godly.

The reason for this being wrong is very simple, but going by parts

First, Kirby destroys his body and removes his soul. But his mind survives this process and rebuilds its soul to possess Leongar as a new vessel.

Kirby doesn't "remove his soul" if by that you mean "destroys his body and soul", Kirby only destroys their body, and their soul survivies this. If you survive something (You=a soul) you don't need to rebuild your yourself, so this isn't a Mid-Godly regen feat.

Then Kirby kicks Soul Forgo out of Leon. Then the ******* butterfly, Morpho Knight shows up and assimilates Soul Forgo into itself. Kirby then disassembles Morpho Knight, and Soul Forgo literally instantaneously recreates himself, steals some of Morpho Knight's power, and evolves into Chaos Elfilis.

The butterfly fails to assimilate that soul, he only gains power from it while having it trapped inside his body. Hence, when his body blows up, the soul was inside and runs away. If we were to see nothing when his body blew up, and then "Soul Forgo literally instantaneously recreates himself", then sure, that's Mid-Godly regen, but they didn't need to recreate their soul because they were there. The rest is correct.

Kirby then again rips its soul out of its body, destroying his body in the process. Kirby then destroys said soul after fighting it, and said new soul can disassemble and reassemble itself at will, and then, and only then, does he finally die.

Again, we don't know what the heck that orb is. Maybe it's their soul (..which somehow doesn't look the same as his body unlike Soul Forgo looked like Fecto Forgo), maybe it's just a transformation like with Nightmare. It is correct that the orb can disassemble and reassemble itself at will, which is a lesser form of regen the profile has.

Heck, he doesn't even truly die, as the last remaining part of him willingly gets absorbed back into Elfilin.

Well, that was more so Kirby's going, I have this written about his "Power of miracle" so far. It's yet to point out how the kanjis for that are the same as the power Leongar said Fecto gave to the people of the new world to left it.

I'll reply to the rest of the comments soon.

 

[Eficiente]

Anyways do we have a good shot of the dream universe? I'm pretty sure that even the title of the universe that represents its theme has stars in it

about the dream universe

So to start, it's never called a dream universe, just call it by its name. Titles of Treasure Roads have white dots, but not the places themselves. No, titles do not "represent" what's inside in any meaningful way for us, it's just poetic and to hype out, it matters nothing next to what we know for a fact it's inside, otherwise it's dogmatic as it has no reason to be.

given how everything is parallel there, like exact copies, from the people to the planet

Take no offense but this is a downgraded, warped version of what legit things are. What does "parallel" mean here, for realities? A parallel universe is universe-sized, it is pretty much a copy of the timeline in the universe but with things different. A "parallel world", like the ones we see in Another Dimension, is not the same as 1 word is not the same, but takes inspiration from the idea of parallel universes, and the dimensions in Another Dimension are pretty much copies with no downsides to it. What does Fecto Dreams have of "parallel"? Nothing, nor the place nor the beings there are called that, you call it "parallel" because it has "things similar", and it has things similar because Fecto created them as copies, not because Fecto Dreams just by existing and just by nature is a copy of the universe, it has as many copies of things as Fecto made.

Furthermore, those things similar aren't even perfect. The beings have more power, sure, but they lack experiences of events in the past as they weren't created with them, the place is made of isolated islands, meaning the space between them isn't the same as the ones in the real world. It is full of something, energy, but energy is no copy of grounds, skies, trees, space, etc. All the islands are like around a cylinder, making it odd for the rest of the planet to be below them.

and the text for Phantom Woods implies a sun for Phantom Woods to grow as large as it did, there’s a lot of proof for it.

That is correct. But as you know, it's not the same for some dimension to have a sun, have stars, a galaxy, many galaxies, or be universe-sized. Particularly, this place is based on Fecto's memories of a world he invaded and how he could see through their mind victims, it makes perfect sense for Fecto to have memories of parts of the world but not all the world, and the sun..but then little more and fill the rest with energy. Even if we didn't need proof to claim it's bigger, why would it bigger, why would they have memories of the whole universe or have an amount of psychic energy that fills in the empty places be the size of the universe? It's goes against logic.

Furthermore, after the defeat of Chaos Elfilis, the cleared sky shows a world identical to the Forgotten World. And Treasure Road mayyyyy be part of Forgo Dreams but it’s very unconfirmed

It's stated that this wasn't Fecto Dreams but some other (real) realm. Fitting as part of Fecto's gimmick is dimensional travel, and they don't have Fecto in their name anymore. I would be more willing to believe this is some alt. universe they made if this is ever stated. Treasure Roads are each a dimension called Treasure Road, as stated in the correct translation of the Rare Stone Master fig., the dimensions called Treasure Roads are Treasure Roads while Fecto Dreams is Fecto Dreams, they're not the same. Again, Fecto's gimmick is dimensional travel and portals, they just have variety.

On a related note, we should probably get Kirby's other Warp Stars on his profile. The ones from Air Ride, I mean. Shadow Star, Speed Star, Dragoon, Hydra, etc.

Sure, that could start in a sandbox.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

[...] @James_Plays_4_Games [...]

Would you be willing to help out here please?

1: I am avoiding spoilers for Kirby and the Forgotten Land. It is risky to even post this message. 2: I have absolutely lost interest in official VS Battles Wiki stuff for the Kirby of the Stars series ever since the year 2021, and I have yet to regain the interest.

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente

Please explain what you think should be done here exactly.