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In that case it can just be listed on the Toy Story verse page, but I would rather wait to see what others think.
How about putting that in a note on the profile pages of the characters that appeared in KHIII instead? It's not like as if the whole verse was involved and I think it would look strange for people who are only familiar with Toy Story and not Kingdom Hearts if something like that was on the verse page for Toy Story.
 
Well, it's not much different from indexing a power from an obscure (but still legitimate) source.
Per what Young Xehanort did and the statements, the entire verse is essencially involved in the act of having a Heart in general.
Which is why, to keep indexing accuracy, it would be best to list such resistance to all the pages, if anything the justification can be a bit more longer (Or link to the justification, I support this more to keep stuff short and simple to grasp) in their case to explain how it applies to all the Toy Story cast as well.
 
Well, it's not much different from indexing a power from an obscure (but still legitimate) source.
Per what Young Xehanort did and the statements, the entire verse is essencially involved in the act of having a Heart in general.
Which is why, to keep indexing accuracy, it would be best to list such resistance to all the pages, if anything the justification can be a bit more longer (Or link to the justification, I support this more to keep stuff short and simple to grasp) in their case to explain how it applies to all the Toy Story cast as well.
I'm still not sure what to think but I do kind of want to see what other people think about that.
 
For the record, everything else for Woody and Buzz would be kept in the KH key as the staff seems to agree on that.
 
Look, we are not going to accept adding any Kingdom Hearts exclusive abilities to the regular Toy Story keys, and that's that. Please accept this and move on.

Adding extra keys with the abilities demonstrated in Kingdom Hearts is probably fine though.
 
Because, for example, it is extremely farfetched to assume that what Pixar portray as a bunch of largely helpless tiny toys would be able to interact with non-physical entities in general, rather than that the standard crossover plot induced stupidity rules took hold to not make them entirely useless.
Well, you can be a bunch of harmless toys and interract with non-physical entities.
Some verses have random unathletic humans doing it for example.

Also most visitors thinks 4-A Kirito is a joke or similar things, yet we just put what's correct. It's more of an Appeal to Majority than anything else tbh.

And there's nothing stupid with someone trying to make things right. Bobsican is using as much common sense as any of us, wether we are for or against the changes.

He searched for interviews, found enough to be reliable and thought over how the changed would be and if adding one ability would contradict Toy Story (here, them having Heart resistances and maybe NPI isn't a problem, since them having it or not doesn't matter to the plot of the movies).
 
Look, we are not going to accept adding any Kingdom Hearts exclusive abilities to the regular Toy Story keys, and that's that. Please accept this and move on.

Adding extra keys with the abilities demonstrated in Kingdom Hearts is probably fine though.
You still haven't explained why beyond the reasonings that you have given, which doesn't work when they have already been debunked as they're based on crossovers usually being unreliable, respectively, which doesn't work when we are accepting this as canon for both of the involved series (Plus that not always being the case), so to remain consistent, instead of making up assumptions to keep them "disconnected" (Which is overall detrimental), the data manip resistance should be added to all the Toy Story profiles.
 
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Well, you can be a bunch of harmless toys and interract with non-physical entities.
Some verses have random unathletic humans doing it for example.

Also most visitors thinks 4-A Kirito is a joke or similar things, yet we just put what's correct. It's more of an Appeal to Majority than anything else tbh.

And there's nothing stupid with someone trying to make things right. Bobsican is using as much common sense as any of us, wether we are for or against the changes.

He searched for interviews, found enough to be reliable and thought over how the changed would be and if adding one ability would contradict Toy Story (here, them having Heart resistances and maybe NPI isn't a problem, since them having it or not doesn't matter to the plot of the movies).
NPI is kind of on the supernatural side of things and aside from stuff like the toys being alive I don't think that something like that would have a place in Toy Story.
 
You still haven't explained why beyond the reasonings that you have given, which doesn't work when they have already been debunked as they're based on crossovers usually being unreliable, respectively, which doesn't work when we are accepting this as canon for both of the involved series (Plus that not always being the case), so to remain consistent, instead of making up assumptions to keep them "disconnected" (Which is overall detrimental), the data manip resistance should be added to all the Toy Story profiles.
It might be a good idea to add everything except the Data Manipulation Resistance for now and then continue discussing said resistance.
 
Bobsican:

If there is no indication whatsoever of any supernatural abilities within the regular Toy Story canon, we cannot try to scale them to abilities displayed within a very weird and supernatural crossover, that does not at all fit with the tone or world of the Pixar canon, period. We do not do so elsewhere, and we do not do so here, and as you recurrently do, you are relentlessly fighting for a standard or precedent that would be destructive for the wiki as a whole, so cease and desist please. Thank you. I do not have the time and energy to continue to waste on this.
 
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Bobsican:

If there is no indication whatsoever of any supernatural abilities within the regular Toy Story canon, we cannot try to scale them to abilities displayed within a very weird and supernatural crossover, that does not at all fit with the tone or world of the Pixar canon, period. We do not do so elsewhere, and we do not do so here, and as you recurrently do, you are relentlessly fighting for a standard or precedent that would be destructive for the wiki as a whole, so cease and desist please. Thank you. I do not have the time and energy to continue to waste on this.
Such as toys being animated, or toys being able to keep up with cars or airplanes as they are going away? The tone is irrelevant when it comes to canons, no contradictions are made with Hearts being a thing in the Toy Story series (And so it fits within Pixar canon), and you are essencially using the Argument of Incredulity Fallacy for your "point" of "we cannot try to scale them to abilities displayed within a very weird and supernatural crossover".
How about you actually bring some cases that could be affected by this? As you're saying that this could be problematic yet don't bring up any particular cases to exemplify and make your point more reasonable.
Also, sorry if this is extremely tiring for you, I'm aware you're busy with many other things.
 
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Such as toys being animated, or toys being able to keep up with cars or airplanes as they are going away? The tone is irrelevant when it comes to canons, no contradictions are made with Hearts being a thing in the Toy Story series (And so it fits within Pixar canon), and you are essencially using the Argument of Incredulity Fallacy for your "point" of "we cannot try to scale them to abilities displayed within a very weird and supernatural crossover".
How about you actually bring some cases that could be affected by this? As you're saying that this could be problematic yet don't bring up any particular cases to exemplify and make your point more reasonable.
Well, the toys being alive is part of the premise, therefore this and everything that comes with it is forgivable. Anything more like for example NPI puts more pressure on the suspension of disbelief. Data Manipulation Resistance is kind of awkward in that regard.
 
Well, the toys being alive is part of the premise, therefore this and everything that comes with it is forgivable. Anything more like for example NPI puts more pressure on the suspension of disbelief. Data Manipulation Resistance is kind of awkward in that regard.
Well, Woody putting together random stuff made innanimated objects alive, I wouldn't say supernatural stuff is problematic.

Also the NPI and resistances are thing which doesn't matter much anyway, even with "it would be weird to have supernatural in such a setting". After all verse such as We Never Learn, which is less "fantastic" than Toy Story still has Time Travel or girls doing purification as a hobby. Nothing weird to me.
 
Suspension of disbelief is pretty subjective and not something we should base decisions on, doing so as said before is an Argument from Incredulity Fallacy.
Suspension of disbelief can be part of the reason why someone isn't comfortable with something and I think that many people will agree that having Data Manipulation Resistance for the heart on the pages would feel awkward. This is on top of what I already said in a previous comment.

Well, I don't think that it is really a matter of assuming that hearts are not a thing in Toy Story and more putting things on the profiles or rather the main keys that are never mentioned or referenced in the main canon. Having hearts doesn't contradict anything and is the default assumption for anything that is related to Kingdom Hearts but the Data Manipulation Resistance for hearts is sort of redundant and irrelevant for the most part and on top of that kind of dubious since it is indirectly derived from statements about canon.
 
If extreme abilities are only displayed in crossovers and never referred to or remotely even implied within regular canon, it is extremely unreliable to list them, and sets a very bad precedent for the wiki in general. This is basic common sense as far as I am concerned, and I am seriously getting extremely tired of having to deal with your ongoing irresponsible antics in this regard.

However, I am extremely overworked, stressed out, increasingly annoyed, have many other tasks to do, and do not have the time and energy to humour you for a further extensive period of time. This is not going to be accepted no matter how fanatically argumentative you get about the subject. All that you will accomplish is to waste both of our time and energy, and make me increasingly fed up with you in general. You can either accept to create two separate keys as a final staff judgement, or we can close this thread and you get nothing, as I have many more important tasks to deal with, and you are actively keeping me from handling them.
 
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Well, Woody putting together random stuff made innanimated objects alive, I wouldn't say supernatural stuff is problematic.

Also the NPI and resistances are thing which doesn't matter much anyway, even with "it would be weird to have supernatural in such a setting". After all verse such as We Never Learn, which is less "fantastic" than Toy Story still has Time Travel or girls doing purification as a hobby. Nothing weird to me.
That instance would be part of the premise about living toys. It wouldn't justify assuming that they normally have NPI which we never actually see in the movies and only showed up in a supernatural setting where they gained new abilities.
 
"If extreme abilities are only displayed in crossovers and never referred to or remotely even implied within regular canon, it is extremely unreliable to use them"

I think I can agree with that.
 
My apologies for getting very testy above, but dealing with relentless irresponsible lack of common sense that is destructive for the wiki as a whole, when I already have lots of other simultaneous work to deal with, is exactly the kind of situation that tends to increasingly make me extremely annoyed.
 
That instance would be part of the premise about living toys. It wouldn't justify assuming that they normally have NPI which we never actually see in the movies and only showed up in a supernatural setting where they gained new abilities.
NPI I can agree more than the Heart, since the Heart is something they naturally have unlike NPI which would be through fighting.

Getting some naturals and useless resistances wouldn't be an extreme additions tho.
 
NPI I can agree more than the Heart, since the Heart is something they naturally have unlike NPI which would be through fighting.

Getting some naturals and useless resistances wouldn't be an extreme additions tho.
As I said before, I'm ambivalent about the Data Manipulation Resistance and I'm more ambivalent about it than I'm about having it on the Kingdom Hearts pages already. The rest is something that I absolutely wouldn't add. Not to the main keys.
 
My apologies for getting very testy above, but dealing with relentless irresponsible lack of common sense that is destructive for the wiki as a whole, when I already have lots of other simultaneous work to deal with, is exactly the kind of situation that tends to increasingly make me extremely annoyed.
I understand that the amount of work in addition to controversials stuff can be stressful.

However saying that people are irresponsible/lack common sense or exagerrating what is a normal opposition argument is kind of irresponsible in itself. Everyone is trying to make this wiki advance, and debates like that are what make the wiki advance.

The crossover has everything you can hope for as canon, the Heart-related thing are all useless and minor and it's a main example of the difference between a canon crossover and a mere alternate version of the characters.
If anything, it would actually put the first good example regarding this topic.
 
As I said before, I'm ambivalent about the Data Manipulation Resistance and I'm more ambivalent about it than I'm about having it on the Kingdom Hearts pages already. The rest is something that I absolutely wouldn't add. Not to the main keys.
Can't say much about wether the Heart giving the resistances it does is legit or not; imo that's another matter entirely.

It's just that if characters have it and got resistances from it, it has to apply to everyone with a Heart.

The rest is obviously understandable.
 
Yuri:

No it would definitely not. Scaling powers and statistics from crossovers is a major completely unreliable no-no in general, with the possible exception for works created by the same single author, and even that should be viewed with suspicion. I am definitely not going to accept setting a bad precedent in this regard.

You can all argue about it all day if you wish, but if something is blatantly destructive for the wiki, I am going to block it.
 
"the Heart-related thing are all useless and minor"

It being for the most part useless and minor is part of the reason why I'm ambivalent about it.
 
Can't say much about wether the Heart giving the resistances it does is legit or not; imo that's another matter entirely.

It's just that if characters have it and got resistances from it, it has to apply to everyone with a Heart.

The rest is obviously understandable.
Well, it's a resistance that would only apply to the heart itself and that's kind of making things more unclear in my opinion.
 
I agree with AKM sama. We are all wasting our time here.
 
Yuri:

No it would definitely not. Scaling powers and statistics from crossovers is a major completely unreliable no-no in general, with the possible exception for works created by the same single author, and even that should be viewed with suspicion. I am definitely not going to accept setting a bad precedent in this regard.

You can all argue about it all day if you wish, but if something is blatantly destructive for the wiki, I am going to block it.
Well, Pixar monitored all of the plot as shown in the OP's statements, so this would be fine to do, not that many crossovers actually have explicit backup from the authors beyond ownership and minor monitoring usually (Let alone statements to confirm canonicity), after all, so please have a more open mind instead of seeing stuff the same regardless of what's brought up, not all crossovers that are treated as canon are to be taken as mere nonsense to leave entirely separately when the logical conclusion from this is that the Toy Story cast always had a Heart, and so they always had such Data Manipulation resistance.

And so we're clear, this is what I picture:
Woody and Buzz' profiles get merged, the KH stuff is kept in a separate key as everyone agrees.
What my issue is, however, is the act of keeping the Data Manipulation Resistance separate from their base statistics, it's a heavy plot point in the KH events that the toys always had a heart, and that they had a bond with Andy's, hence why this would be something that would scale, further being supported by their universe being within KH's cosmology and so on, which is why I also am arguing for this also going for every other Toy Story character.
 
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Classic "goodbye I'll remember you forever", just to not be mentionned again.

I watched Toy Story 3/4 and them mentionning KH at any moment would just have felt out of place to me. It's as relevant as them talking about Sid's dog, despite litteraly being one of the most "threatening" thing that happened to them.

Also throwing "Death of the author" at everything just doesn't work.
Pixar flat out says "it canonically happened here and they remember", it's highlighted as the difference with other worlds and Pixar directly involved themselves in.

If we had a direct contradiction like them being in a box all the time between 2 and 3 then yeah it would not be canon.

But here there is none, so we have no reason to say that severals confirmation are wrong because we somehow decides that our opinion is better.
That concept applies to fictional worlds where they never have a continuation, not to never mentioning a character again.

No, it really would have not, there's several scenes that it wouldn't have been out of place. One example is when Woody in TS 3 is talking about all the friends they loss:


He doesn't even vaguely allude to Yozora/Sora. Idk what scenes you watched but there are scenes that would've made sense for him to mention them, this "out of place" argument seems to be constructed out of ahving no real refute to the fact that they're never once referenced rather then legitmacy.

All you said was that I can't use death of the author then never actually explained why and instead used the very quote I'm applying death of the author too and why it doesn't work. So your refute here isn't a refute, it's just being unable to go against that this is clear as day death of the author.

Direct contradiction is that they never once bring up those events and seem to have no memory of it whatsoever.

There is one, the only confirmation is pixar devs random statement that's never shown in the series.
 
That concept applies to fictional worlds where they never have a continuation, not to never mentioning a character again.

No, it really would have not, there's several scenes that it wouldn't have been out of place. One example is when Woody in TS 3 is talking about all the friends they loss:


He doesn't even vaguely allude to Yozora/Sora. Idk what scenes you watched but there are scenes that would've made sense for him to mention them, this "out of place" argument seems to be constructed out of ahving no real refute to the fact that they're never once referenced rather then legitmacy.

All you said was that I can't use death of the author then never actually explained why and instead used the very quote I'm applying death of the author too and why it doesn't work. So your refute here isn't a refute, it's just being unable to go against that this is clear as day death of the author.

Direct contradiction is that they never once bring up those events and seem to have no memory of it whatsoever.

There is one, the only confirmation is pixar devs random statement that's never shown in the series.

I'm just going to remind that Toy Story 3 released quite before KHIII, so to expect a reference in TS 3 of all places is a no, plus over a decade has passed since they met Sora and company.
 
"One example is when Woody in TS 3 is talking about all the friends they loss"

Well, Sora wouldn't exactly fall into this category by virtue of having only been encountered during the incident with their copied world as far as we know. They are mainly listing off their fellow toys that used to be with them alongside Andy. I also don't consider the lack of a mention to be a real contradiction. That being said though, I do believe that it is a reason not to tie the stuff from the two verses too closely together since their plotlines do not have much to do with each other other than the canon overlap they have through the interview statements.
 
K so I decided to take a look through various interviews,
"— I see. Something that’s definitely a hot topic this time is the announcement of the “Toy Story” world. Having been so eagerly awaiting this moment, it’s sort of like a “It’s finally here!” feeling inside.

Nomura:
I’ve been wanting to add Toy Story in from since KH2, so even for me, I’m welled up with emotion finally seeing it implemented. For KH3, a Toy Story world was absolutely necessary. With these thoughts, and after many discussions, here we are.

Just like we did back with KH1, we had to relentlessly consult with all related parties… It was quite a long process (laughs). For example, when John Lasseter* had come over to Japan, I was asked about the way I was thinking of implementing the worlds(**), and I would tell him about the types of things I wanted to include, and so on."
So here he directly states just like he did with KH 1 he had to consult with the devs, this would imply virtually every disney world in KH 1 is canon.

"—We were surprised at how the plot of the Pixar worlds were continuations of the original movies.

Nomura: Originally, the basic pattern of the KH series was that Sora and the others get involved in scenes that depict the happenings of the original films. The Tangled and Frozen worlds fit that description. However, with Toy Story and Monsters Inc., upon request from the creators, we went with a pattern of depicting a period set after the movie as an "authorized history." Which pattern a world would follow depended greatly on the ideas of the creators and producers of the movies."
Authorized History is essentially accepted/allowed history, but I want to also note this implies that Monsters Inc is canon to KH along with Toy Story.

"--We heard that the Toy Story world forms also took a lot of back-and-forth with Pixar.

Nomura
: Yes. At one point, there was a time when they were going to look like pixel characters. Like pixel art made 3D. As we adjusted them to look more realistic, they began to look more like figurines - which is how they ended up with their current look."
This doesn't prove much, Pixar devs specifically talked with them over Monster inc designs too and they want to make sure the characters correctly fit with the world. It doesn't prove canoncity.

"-With the heart being a major theme in Kingdom Hearts, it definitely fits. The fact that this time, an original story is being prepared is also incredibly exciting.

Nomura:
There was huge desire from the Pixar creators to have original stories for both Toy Story and Big Hero 6. So that's what we decided on. Up until now, Sora, Donald and Goofy have always been placed into a well known Disney setting, but this time I'm curious to see what will happen."
Here he directly states Pixar creators wanted original stories for both Toy Story and Big Hero 6.

So basically from what I can gather from these links, Pixar basically allowed Nomura to add authorized original stories within their works instead of the general unoriginal heavily abriged versions of the Disney worlds, and the main claims for canon come from how Pixar discussed with him where they'd want it and how it's not a parallel world, but let's go into the IGN article cause that's supposed to basically confirm it's canonicty.

It's said here:
"...But it’s not as simple as just ‘Disney’ or ‘Pixar’
While there’s obviously a certain amount of movement between projects, both Disney and Pixar keep teams of animators intact after their films have been released – and those teams all have a say on their work being repurposed for the game.

As Nomura points out, those teams can have different takes on the same issue. Take storylines. Some worlds in the game – like Tangled – reimagine the original movie’s plotline, where others – Toy Story, for instance – involve plots set in between the existing movies. Those decisions seem to come down mainly to the creators involved:

“For each different world we had to deal with a different team,” explains Nomura, “and [plotting]" was largely down to what their feelings were on what they wanted to happen. There were some teams that were like, ‘Ooh, if you make a new story, you're going to kind of ruin the world that we created,’ whereas there were teams, like Toy Story, who said to us, ‘Well, we can't have it in that world, but if you want to make a new story, that's fine.’”"

"As explained above, Pixar’s teams in particular could be fairly exacting about what they want their worlds to look and feel like – but some decisions were subject to major discussions well before they became reality.

Nomura explains that his vision for Kingdom Hearts has always been that Sora and friends canonically arrive in Disney’s worlds. That didn’t suit the Toy Story team. “When I first brought this to Pixar and I asked about doing that, they were like, ‘Actually, no. The Toy Story story is complete. It's a complete package the way it is, and we can't really change that.’ I told them if I'm going to do this in the Kingdom Hearts way, then it's going to become a case of, ‘Actually, Sora and his friends did come into the world.’”

The solution became to place the plotline between Toy Story movies (specifically 2 and 3), satisfying Nomura’s vision, Pixar’s restrictions and creating a strange extra consequence: “I said, ‘Okay, so is it fair to assume that Woody and Buzz, and friends, remember Sora and everybody coming? Is it part of the story now?’ and they were like, ‘yeah,’ and I was kind of like, ‘Oh! Okay.’”
So this is taken completely out of context, note the original statement, that Nomura's vision for KH is that Sora and co. canonically arrive into a Disney world and Pixar saying no to that, and they only accept it being apart of the story once it's fit in-between the two movies. Essentially what's "canon" here is from Nomura's vision, they're not outright saying KH is canon to Toy Story, they're saying for what Nomura's vision is for the Toy Story world it's canon. Or else Bob is arguing for literally every Disney world to be canon.

So like I've said, this is a one-sided canon, not a double-sided canon.
 
I'm just going to remind that Toy Story 3 released quite before KHIII, so to expect a reference in TS 3 of all places is a no, plus over a decade has passed since they met Sora and company.
It's also been nearly a decade since Bo Peep split from Woody and them and the other Toys yet Woody remembers all of them perfectly. Also seeing as KH 3 has been in development for some time and Nomura's been asking them since KH 2, you'd think at the very least they'd make a reference.
 
It's also been nearly a decade since Bo Peep split from Woody and them and the other Toys yet Woody remembers all of them perfectly. Also seeing as KH 3 has been in development for some time and Nomura's been asking them since KH 2, you'd think at the very least they'd make a reference.
Not really, he couldn't even contact Pixar to ask them back then.
 
“For each different world we had to deal with a different team,” explains Nomura, “and [plotting]" was largely down to what their feelings were on what they wanted to happen. There were some teams that were like, ‘Ooh, if you make a new story, you're going to kind of ruin the world that we created,’ whereas there were teams, like Toy Story, who said to us, ‘Well, we can't have it in that world, but if you want to make a new story, that's fine.’”"

"As explained above, Pixar’s teams in particular could be fairly exacting about what they want their worlds to look and feel like – but some decisions were subject to major discussions well before they became reality.

Nomura explains that his vision for Kingdom Hearts has always been that Sora and friends canonically arrive in Disney’s worlds. That didn’t suit the Toy Story team. “When I first brought this to Pixar and I asked about doing that, they were like, ‘Actually, no. The Toy Story story is complete. It's a complete package the way it is, and we can't really change that.’ I told them if I'm going to do this in the Kingdom Hearts way, then it's going to become a case of, ‘Actually, Sora and his friends did come into the world.’”

The solution became to place the plotline between Toy Story movies (specifically 2 and 3), satisfying Nomura’s vision, Pixar’s restrictions and creating a strange extra consequence: “I said, ‘Okay, so is it fair to assume that Woody and Buzz, and friends, remember Sora and everybody coming? Is it part of the story now?’ and they were like, ‘yeah,’ and I was kind of like, ‘Oh! Okay.’”
So this is taken completely out of context, note the original statement, that Nomura's vision for KH is that Sora and co. canonically arrive into a Disney world and Pixar saying no to that, and they only accept it being apart of the story once it's fit in-between the two games. Essentially what's "canon" here is from Nomura's vision, they're not outright saying KH is canon to Toy Story, they're saying for what Nomura's vision is for the Toy Story world it's canon. Or else Bob is arguing for literally every Disney world to be canon.

So like I've said, this is a one-sided canon, not a double-sided canon.
Ehh, you're ignoring an important part that the page says as well:
he solution became to place the plotline between Toy Story movies (specifically 2 and 3), satisfying Nomura’s vision, Pixar’s restrictions and creating a strange extra consequence: “I said, ‘Okay, so is it fair to assume that Woody and Buzz, and friends, remember Sora and everybody coming? Is it part of the story now?’ and they were like, ‘yeah,’ and I was kind of like, ‘Oh! Okay.’”

Here’s hoping for a Sora cameo in Toy Story 4.

The characters remembering the events that occured has always happened since KHII, Nomura asking the Pixar devs over this contextually refers to this being a canon crossover.
 
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