Kingdom Hearts III is canon to Toy Story

[Bobsican]

I know this was denied before, but I found better translations and other statements to showcase the involvement with Pixar and Disney authorizing this for being what in our terms is effectively a canon crossover, aka, the events are within the timeline of KH and the main TS series as well.

Spoiler

https://www.khinsider.com/news/Full-Famitsu-interview-with-Nomura-on-KINGDOM-HEARTS-3-9772
Nomura: The Toy Story world isn’t simply a sort of abridged telling of the original Toy Story plot with Sora and co. being thrown in. The events that occur take place after the 2nd movie. The setting of the story is not in a parallel plane to the original. Everything that happens in KH3 will be on the same timeline as the Toy Story series.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Kingdom-Hearts-3-Ultimania-Main-Nomura-Interview-Translated-14763
—We were surprised at how the plot of the Pixar worlds were continuations of the original movies.
Nomura: Originally, the basic pattern of the KH series was that Sora and the others get involved in scenes that depict the happenings of the original films. The Tangled and Frozen worlds fit that description. However, with Toy Story and Monsters Inc., upon request from the creators, we went with a pattern of depicting a period set after the movie as an "authorized history." Which pattern a world would follow depended greatly on the ideas of the creators and producers of the movies.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Fami...Nomura-on-Kingdom-Hearts-3-from-E3-2018-12755
--We heard that the Toy Story world forms also took a lot of back-and-forth with Pixar.
Nomura: Yes. At one point, there was a time when they were going to look like pixel characters. Like pixel art made 3D. As we adjusted them to look more realistic, they began to look more like figurines - which is how they ended up with their current look.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Famitsu-Kingdom-Hearts-3-development-progress-Switch-and-Xbox-9875
-I see. Next, in this world, Sora will appear to be as a toy. There's a certain impact to seeing him like that.
Nomura: To get to his current state, the Kingdom Hearts team's art directors designed him after much discussion with Pixar. And so, just as with previous installments, there will be worlds where, upon visiting, Sora, Donald and Goofy's outfits will change.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Full-Famitsu-interview-with-Nomura-on-KINGDOM-HEARTS-3-9772
— I see. Something that’s definitely a hot topic this time is the announcement of the “Toy Story” world. Having been so eagerly awaiting this moment, it’s sort of like a “It’s finally here!” feeling inside.
Nomura: I’ve been wanting to add Toy Story in from since KH2, so even for me, I’m welled up with emotion finally seeing it implemented. For KH3, a Toy Story world was absolutely necessary. With these thoughts, and after many discussions, here we are. Just like we did back with KH1, we had to relentlessly consult with all related parties… It was quite a long process (laughs). For example, when John Lasseter(+) had come over to Japan, I was asked about the way I was thinking of implementing the worlds(++), and I would tell him about the types of things I wanted to include, and so on.
+ Chief creative officer of Pixar
++ It’s not clear whether or not he’s talking about one or many worlds
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/0...challenges-and-rewards-of-working-with-disney
"The solution became to place the plotline between Toy Story movies (specifically 2 and 3), satisfying Nomura's vision, Pixar's restrictions and creating a strange extra consequence: "I said, 'Okay, so is it fair to assume that Woody and Buzz, and friends, remember Sora and everybody coming? Is it part of the story now?' and they were like, 'yeah,' and I was kind of like, 'Oh! Okay.'" "

If the above is accepted, I'll propose just merging the respective profiles, and making Woody and Buzz 9-C as they can harm others that can harm them (Unless this is an outlier), and list as a separate key the powers they explicitly got while in the events under KHIII out of Young Xehanort messing with their world doing this as a consequence while it lasted.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I agree with this

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

I agree with this before and I am glad people are seeing the truth about Toy Story

 

[ElixirBlue]

I agree as well. That was part of the hype of KH3, that KH3 would be canon to Toy Story.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Question is that will the AP and everything else from the OG Toy Story be replaced with Star Level via scaling to Sora now if this gets accepted?

 

[Bobsican]

No, they were planned to be downgraded out of nothing backing up their scaling that well.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Damn at least a Varies Tier should work for Toy Story tbh

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Too realistic for varies to work

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Like I said prior, it should be TS is canon in KH but not the other way around. The main issue falls under these events are never once referenced during the movies (3 & 4) specifically. Even with TS 4 coming out after KH 3, also along with Disney basically confirming the Pixar theory is legit, this would hurt points even worse since there's Pixar worlds in KH 3 completely separate from toy box.

 

[Bobsican]

I mean, it's confirmed in Monstropolis that Boo comes from another world, the same can also apply to other worlds.
There's also no reason for the Toy Story cast to just bring up an specific event when it was over a decade ago in their perspective (That much time went by then in the timeline, Andy went from a kid to an universitary as shown in 3, after all), plus it's reasonable to consider that hardly anyone would believe them in the same kind of way the plot of the first movie went.

 

[Newendigo]

I think you know already why, even if this crossover was to be canon, would still be a massive outlier for the Toys.

"They can harm each other" is also a bizarre lie, first they never damaged one another in the movies, feeling pain is not the automatic equivalent of damage.

Second why would they even try to actually damage each other, they are toys owned by the same kid, even Woody when despised Buzz he never had the intention of putting him threating situation as he would get ditched by the other toys.

 

[Bobsican]

No, I mean in KH, they can harm these things (The latter implies that they've dealt with those for quite a while, which they confirm), which can also harm them as well, now if it's an outlier (Or hax, Heartless Physiology and all of that) that's another story.
In any case they should get a separate key for the powers they specifically got while in the events of KH out of Young Xehanort messing around, as said before.

Also, as I'm sure many here aren't into KH but Toy Story, I'll recommend seeing the cutscenes regarding it from here for those that want to properly evaluate, the segment regarding this "world" only lasts about 40 minutes excluding gameplay (Which is skipped here)

 

[QuasiYuri]

I agree with it being canon, but they obviously wouldn't scale because of being amped (?) during the KH part.

 

[Bobsican]

Yes, they are going to be downgraded for sure from their current rating.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I mean, it's confirmed in Monstropolis that Boo comes from another world, the same can also apply to other worlds.

Monstropolis isn't the one I'm talking about, that doesn't really contradict anything since in canon that's a different world from the pixar universe, talking stuff like Ratatoulie.

 

[Bobsican]

I mean, Boo appears in Toy Story 4 as a cameo, and Remy appears in Twilight Town expanding his cooking to other worlds, but in any case another CRT would be needed to take the Pixar theory as a legitimate thing.
It also seems to be left too vague to necessarily assume that everything happens within the same individual "world", in fact, the link you gave uses this as the "statement", which is nothing beyond there being a confirmation of easter eggs being around, which really doesn't mean that they're all canon (or that they should be taken seriously) within a single universe to begin with by itself.
That would be like saying that many Nintendo verses happen within a single reality as there's multiple easter eggs between them.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

I think you know already why, even if this crossover was to be canon, would still be a massive outlier for the Toys.

"They can harm each other" is also a bizarre lie, first they never damaged one another in the movies, feeling pain is not the automatic equivalent of damage.

Second why would they even try to actually damage each other, they are toys owned by the same kid, even Woody when despised Buzz he never had the intention of putting him threating situation as he would get ditched by the other toys.

I mean characters like 87 TMNT has a Town Level tier via crossover scaling to the 2003 TMNT even tho they have shown weaker AP without using 2003 scaling so same should be for Woody

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I mean, Boo appears in Toy Story 4 as a cameo, and Remy appears in Twilight Town expanding his cooking to other worlds, but in any case another CRT would be needed to take the Pixar theory as a legitimate thing.
It also seems to be left too vague to necessarily assume that everything happens within the same individual "world", in fact, the link you gave uses this as the "statement", which is nothing beyond there being a confirmation of easter eggs being around, which really doesn't mean that they're all canon (or that they should be taken seriously) within a single universe to begin with by itself.
That would be like saying that many Nintendo verses happen within a single reality as there's multiple easter eggs between them.

Boo appearing in Toy Story 4 changes what of what I said exactly? Boo isn't a native of the monster world, she's a native of the human world. Idk why Pixar directly confirming, yes these are things in the movie doesn't prove anything but whatevs, I have another argument you never really addressed that greatly hurts the WoGs statement, Pixar theory was a supporting point you weirdly latched on too.

 

[Bobsican]

Can you explain? I think I may have ignored your point in that case.
I thought your argument was against this by arguing that this being canon would potentially conflict with the Pixar cosmology or so.

 

[SamanPatou]

If I got everything correctly, the only big change would be merging the profiles, while powers and stats remain separated by keys, right?

Because for how canon can things be, it still sounds a bit iffy if we start assuming they had magic and crazy power levels even in the movies without showing or acknolwledging them or anything related to KH. But if they stay separated and/or get downgraded, I think it's fine.

Contradictions with pixar canon, cosmology or whatever, are something I know nothing about.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Nomura and Lasseter made it official and canon so I agree with this.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with GiverOfThePeace and Newendigo regarding that Toy Story would have to reference the Kingdom Hearts events somehow to be legitimate canon, and that the feats there would be outliers anyway, due to crossovers almost always rescaling characters from different fictions to each other.

 

[Newendigo]

I mean characters like 87 TMNT has a Town Level tier via crossover scaling to the 2003 TMNT even tho they have shown weaker AP without using 2003 scaling so same should be for Woody

That honestly shouldn't be the case, but I got barebones knowledge over TMNT (At least powerscaling wise).

 

[Nehz_XZX]

That honestly shouldn't be the case, but I got barebones knowledge over TMNT (At least powerscaling wise).

I know hardly anything about it, so I think it would be best to have someone explain the reasons why that is like that and if these reasons apply to some degree to the topic of this thread.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

That honestly shouldn't be the case, but I got barebones knowledge over TMNT (At least powerscaling wise).

The 87 TMNT survived attacks weaker then the 2003 TMNT, and in fact, the show relies in Wall-Building attacks and they mostly hit and crashed Walls and having Parlors at their head at peak which is at Wall Level, so if the 87 TMNT can be scale that high thx to the Crossover scaling, I don't see why the Toy Story should not be scaled, a varies tier should work at least.

Also Paper Mario is Massive FTL+ and Multi Solar System via scaling to Mario which is crossover scaling.

 

[Bobsican]

If I got everything correctly, the only big change would be merging the profiles, while powers and stats remain separated by keys, right?

Because for how canon can things be, it still sounds a bit iffy if we start assuming they had magic and crazy power levels even in the movies without showing or acknolwledging them or anything related to KH. But if they stay separated and/or get downgraded, I think it's fine.

Contradictions with pixar canon, cosmology or whatever, are something I know nothing about.

As explained before, they got new powers out of Young Xehanort messing around with their "world", meaning that there's a legitimate justification around, anyways, they aren't going to scale to the main KH cast at all out of a lack of legitimate feats either way.

The reason they are being upgraded to 9-C is by the main TS profiles already having 9-C durability via a feat they scale to, from which as they can harm others that can harm them (Heartless), they could have the AP as well, rather than only the durability.

However, I've been thinking about it, and most of the Heartless of this "world" are just possessed toys, which they don't actually harm beyond removing the Heartless out of them, the only exception are (minuature) Shadows, Large Bodies, Toy Troopers and the King of Toys, which are around their own size (Except the last one, but it's a "boss"), so them being 9-C at all is up to debate.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm personally fine with Kingdom Hearts officially taking place in the same multiverse or continuity, but I agree that the Tier 4 stuff are merely plot armor caused by Xenahort and that none of the Pixar characters should be that strong normally. And the toys in Toy Story do seem to have their own superhuman speed feats surprisingly; RC being able to keep up with a moving box truck in the first film. And Bullseye keeping up with an airplane that was approaching lift off in the second one.

In the movies, the toys are consistently portrayed as stone walls, which is pretty realistic. Though, as DMUA said in another thread, simply two characters making each other go "Oof" aren't always reasons to scale striking strength. But, the Toy Story cast being able to take on possessed fodder enemies and destroy other toys kinda makes sense for scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that any TMNT crossover scaling should be removed, that Toy Story should not scale to Kingdom Hearts, and Paper Mario is not a separate continuity from regular Mario afaIk, but @Dino_Ranger_Black would know the specifics for our scaling better.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Can you explain? I think I may have ignored your point in that case.
I thought your argument was against this by arguing that this being canon would potentially conflict with the Pixar cosmology or so.

Basically Woody and co. never once reference their adventures woth Sora and them, even with TS 4 which came after KH 3 they don't ever reference their adventure.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I'm personally fine with Kingdom Hearts officially taking place in the same multiverse or continuity,

It should moreso be like MC Storymode where the events of Toy Story are fully canon in KH but not the other way around.

 

[Antvasima]

Giver is correct. Thank you.

 

[Bobsican]

Basically Woody and co. never once reference their adventures woth Sora and them, even with TS 4 which came after KH 3 they don't ever reference their adventure.

Well, this really isn't a hard requisite for it to be valid as a canon crossover by our standards as far I'm aware, the statements make it clear that Disney, Pixar and Square Enix agree with the events being canon to both of the involved series.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Well, this really isn't a hard requisite for it to be valid as a canon crossover by our standards as far I'm aware, the statements make it clear that Disney, Pixar and Square Enix agree with the events being canon to both of the involved series.

It should be when this is a random statement by the pixar devs that should be further supported by their own movies, hell Buzz has a scene in TS4 where he uses a key to open a door and doesn't even use that moment to reference Sora and co. Hell they don't even slightly mention the time they were randomly BFR'd to another world like theirs where Buzz has a working laser. None of that. That's what makes it extremely hard to accept their statements, these aren't small events that happened to them, these were big life-threatening events and they don't even reference it.

 

[Bobsican]

I mean, why would they suddendly bring up something that happened over a decade ago and that hardly anyone would believe (It also would derail too much the plot as it's not easy to explain)? There's some justifications around to not make a reference really necessary plot wise.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I mean, why would they suddendly bring up something that happened over a decade ago and that hardly anyone would believe? There's some justification around to not make a reference really necessary plot wise.

Because it was a big event of their life? Also half of them were there, so I don't see how "hardly anyone would believe" even qualifies. There's really not, especially with one of the examples I listed.

 

[Bobsican]

Half of them? In the scene with the easter egg of the Kingdom Key, of the ones that did witness the KH events, only Buzz was there, and he's quite reserved, so it's reasonable to consider that he just didn't have the need to just drop that out of nowhere.
And by hardly anyone would believe I don't mean just half of the toys that were in Andy's room, but all the other toys and whichever new toys they ended up meeting, remember, Woody even says that the odd KH events (While in KH, of course) are as odd as Buzz thinking of protecting the galaxy and so on.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Half of them disappeared and suddenly reappeared back with the same consistent story, none of their friends would not believe them, especially if the sargest, the serious, straight-faced ones, are saying the same thing. "He's quite reserved" I don't think that describes Buzz at all, or fits him. He doesn't really keep anything to himself and scenes like this go against "reserved". Irregardless this is semi-derail, it wouldn't be out of nowhere since that'd remind him of that adventure and he doesn't even reference it.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I feel this is a bit of a stretch and agree with Ant and Giver that, to be considered, TS should reference KH first to be accepted. Reminder that we ignore author statements if they contradict their work. In this case, the movies completely ignoring the events of KH (as in, not a single reference) takes precedence over the statements.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, if the standards dictate that both series have to be referenced directly for it to qualify as a canon crossover even if there's statements making it as clear as possible, and the developers being quite close and so on, then there's nothing more to add on my part.
Also, the movies ignoring the events of KH isn't that big of a contradiction when it really didn't affect anyone in the Toy Story setting afterwards beyond the memories themselves, it happening after Toy Story 2 but before 3 (And 3 coming out way before KHIII) showcases that it didn't leave that much of an impact afterwards.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we should probably close this thread. The suggestion is not going to be accepted.