- 32,359
- 20,298
I don't think it's okay just because some is pushing. Making a fuckton of people 3-A is just as bad as making all the Beasts and strongest Servants High 6-A at the most like others want.ThisIsMySwagPack said:
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Kama's stats and skills/Big Fate 3-A to Low 2-C Revision
- Thread starter ShiroyashaGinSan
- Start date
- 7,142
- 4,658
Why?Paul Frank said:
- 2,355
- 270
I don't deal with Types and I'm not sure what people here decided about them, so I don't want to assume too much about their scaling. I just think that if there is still just one statement about them then they really shouldn't be upgraded.
When it comes to CCC characters, would CCC Kiara be 3-A to low 2-C as well? You have a problem with BB since she absorbed Tiamat's data so she should be as strong as her, unless it's stated that she only absorbed a portion of the power and so on. Quite a few questions rise up, at least for me, which I think should be discussed here. Just so people can see that those questions have been answered and the scaling is like this for a reason.
When it comes to CCC characters, would CCC Kiara be 3-A to low 2-C as well? You have a problem with BB since she absorbed Tiamat's data so she should be as strong as her, unless it's stated that she only absorbed a portion of the power and so on. Quite a few questions rise up, at least for me, which I think should be discussed here. Just so people can see that those questions have been answered and the scaling is like this for a reason.
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #124
CCC Kiara/Beast Kiara absolutely scales. She is the start of the scaling chain. Also mind you that Kama herself stated that she is pretty incomplete as a Beast, and doesn't have full potential of Beast 3. Other completely Beast like Goetia, Tiamat and Fou should scale.
- 15,999
- 6,003
Now that we're done with another episode of "Hey, Is That Really A Celestial Body??", now onto scaling. I agree with Kiara scaling.
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #127
BB should scale as she has one of the supporting feats. Saver as well.
If we scale Kiara we should scale Hakuno's servants. Then other people scaled from it.
If we scale Kiara we should scale Hakuno's servants. Then other people scaled from it.
- 6,453
- 1,669
IF anyone needs raw scans translated i can do that.
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #129
Nah, I already said the main meat behind the scans. Thanks, but no thanks.
- 15,999
- 6,003
Nice to find another translator, though. Anyways, have we got our scaling thread?
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #131
- 15,999
- 6,003
Obviously those who you listed should scale. Same with Kiara. Mash's shield too.
- 6,453
- 1,669
Oh i didn't know that was a thing lol
But staying on topic, after reviewing things. I do agree with this upgrade myself. It seems to scale to a lot of characters, and my knowledge on the vast extense of Nasuverse is fairly limited though.
But staying on topic, after reviewing things. I do agree with this upgrade myself. It seems to scale to a lot of characters, and my knowledge on the vast extense of Nasuverse is fairly limited though.
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #134
Lord Camelot Shouldn't be scaled unfortunately. There's no evidence that Goetia's NP is as strong as he is.
- 2,485
- 309
Once again, why is one non Fate expert admin's agreement along with a banned member supposedly enough to start thinking about applying stuff, when the evidence presented isn't conclusive at all? Just the fact that of the supposed characters being scaled, 3 have zero universal statements and 2 involve depictions of characters we haven't seen as well as assuming stuff from Buddhist cosmology works in Nasu's cosmology, which kinda contradicts with assuming that a Hindu cosmology also applies here as well.
- 19,246
- 2,685
>non-Fate expert
that's rich
that's rich
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #137
What's not conclusive about the things I posted? It's just saying that Mara is the universe and can burn it, that's it. It's 3-A. BB is said to be able to destroy the universe and her data all comes from Tiamat and Hakuno's servants treated her like shit.
No? What I'm saying is that are they different? Is the Hindu religion and people who live them live in alien dimension or something? No right? Hence it's the same universe as them.
No? What I'm saying is that are they different? Is the Hindu religion and people who live them live in alien dimension or something? No right? Hence it's the same universe as them.
- 6,453
- 1,669
Going by Encloypedia sources of CCC. The 404 light year is actually an infinite space within the mooncell. Which BB being the one whom absorbed/swallowed the mooncell.. Shouldn't this be a High 3-A feat at least?
"his is the borderline that lies between the seventh layer and Moon Cell's core. Pseudo-Spiritrons are made of light, and it's warned that at the speed of light it would take 404 years to get past this border and to the computer addresses which lie beyond. This essentially communicates "that address doesn't exist" to anyone/anything attempting to pass.
It's actually an infinite distance that cannot be covered even if you try for centuries.
The only thing that can serve as a bridge across the borderline to connect Moon Cell's core to the normal address space is the arena that Moon Cell made to summon the victor of the Holy Grail War.
…Is how it's supposed to be, but BB used an imaginary number space to force herself to become an infinite concept,
and by using a fake arena she managed to break past the borderline.
When she decided to take on the massive problem of getting past 404 Light Years, her words were filled with determination,
"Blossom Vaportrail. 38000 Light Years."
A vaportrail is the stream of vapor left behind by airplanes when they fly. 38000 is suggestive of the distance from the Earth to the Moon."
[1] This site also has the origianl japanese source.
"his is the borderline that lies between the seventh layer and Moon Cell's core. Pseudo-Spiritrons are made of light, and it's warned that at the speed of light it would take 404 years to get past this border and to the computer addresses which lie beyond. This essentially communicates "that address doesn't exist" to anyone/anything attempting to pass.
It's actually an infinite distance that cannot be covered even if you try for centuries.
The only thing that can serve as a bridge across the borderline to connect Moon Cell's core to the normal address space is the arena that Moon Cell made to summon the victor of the Holy Grail War.
…Is how it's supposed to be, but BB used an imaginary number space to force herself to become an infinite concept,
and by using a fake arena she managed to break past the borderline.
When she decided to take on the massive problem of getting past 404 Light Years, her words were filled with determination,
"Blossom Vaportrail. 38000 Light Years."
A vaportrail is the stream of vapor left behind by airplanes when they fly. 38000 is suggestive of the distance from the Earth to the Moon."
[1] This site also has the origianl japanese source.
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #139
Also when you try and prove your point by questioning the other person's trustworthiness and not their point, then you have already lost.
- 2,485
- 309
It doesn't specify if it's real or conceptual. BB can't do what you're saying either and having stuff from Tiamat doesn't equate to having the same power level. The fights with BB, Kiara, and Kama are all conceptual stuff fighting against each other and us needing something specific to even have a small chance of doing something. In none of those fights were we shown universal firepower.
They lived in a different Texture for a while, before AoG ended. Which is strange given that we don't see any signs of this supposedly universal destruction anywhere.
They lived in a different Texture for a while, before AoG ended. Which is strange given that we don't see any signs of this supposedly universal destruction anywhere.
- 19,246
- 2,685
so what you're saying is that statements as a whole are useless?
that's what this sounds like, and isn't any less dumb than it sounds
that's what this sounds like, and isn't any less dumb than it sounds
- 2,485
- 309
Their points aren't actually that meaningful if they just skip over context and stories to suddenly proclaim Universal Beasts/others. Scaling absolutely does not work if the other characters have no real unhindered universal feats and capabilities. Goetia can't destroy a Universe. Solomon isn't Goetia, Kiara has no universal feats, etc.ShiroyashaGinSan said:
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #143
If it isn't specified it should be real. Yes, because she literally said that she can. Game even stated that it's true and not hyperbole. And why is burning and being the universe sounds like conceptual to you? She doesn't need anything, she just need to be the Beast. I know it because I know that happened in the campaign.
- 16,606
- 1,791
I think I can agree with thisMatthew Schroeder said:
- 2,485
- 309
If you're planning to ignore several stories worth of material to start saying 3-A Goetia/Solomon, sure. This is definitely less dumb than not doing so at all.Hl3 or bust said:
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #146
No offense, but that's the worst argument I've ever heard. So rating comes from pure scaling isn't an option? The thing we do for servants? The thing that we do for even high tiers? The thing that we do for majority of the profiles in the wiki?????RegisNex1232 said:
- 6,453
- 1,669
This came from Kiaras profile in the CCC Guidebook. from this website https://www.tmdict.com/book/#fate-extra-material
"The reason why this attack's power, visuals, and scale are so huge is because reincarnated Kiara is a being similar to Saver.
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas. People who have attained moksha (libertation/release) and become Buddhas are also Bodhisattvas. A Bodhisattva is a god of universe's scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System.
Buddhism has a sense of scale of the universe that stands out from that of other religions. There are concepts like Nayuta (1060) and "The Infinitely Vast Number" (1068) which were created to represent the scale and size of a Buddha.
The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm.
This actually aligns with the real scale of galaxies, galaxy clusters, and super clusters.
India had this stuff figured out over 2000 years ago? Holy crap!
In the initial design phase of the game I submitted some paperwork describing this Noble Phantasm. I thought there would be no way that this gets by CERO untouched, but surprisingly enough it did.
I still have no idea how this was able to make it past them."
"The reason why this attack's power, visuals, and scale are so huge is because reincarnated Kiara is a being similar to Saver.
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas. People who have attained moksha (libertation/release) and become Buddhas are also Bodhisattvas. A Bodhisattva is a god of universe's scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System.
Buddhism has a sense of scale of the universe that stands out from that of other religions. There are concepts like Nayuta (1060) and "The Infinitely Vast Number" (1068) which were created to represent the scale and size of a Buddha.
The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm.
This actually aligns with the real scale of galaxies, galaxy clusters, and super clusters.
India had this stuff figured out over 2000 years ago? Holy crap!
In the initial design phase of the game I submitted some paperwork describing this Noble Phantasm. I thought there would be no way that this gets by CERO untouched, but surprisingly enough it did.
I still have no idea how this was able to make it past them."
- 19,246
- 2,685
If you're planning to ignore several stories worth of material to start saying 3-A Goetia/Solomon, sure. This is definitely less dumb than not doing so at all.
I genuinely haven't seen any evidence against the rating itself aside from you going "this is hyperbole/metaphorical", when you have no evidence of either and the game itself says otherwise, or "Servants can't be 3-A" with no further explaination as if that alone is an actual reason
I genuinely haven't seen any evidence against the rating itself aside from you going "this is hyperbole/metaphorical", when you have no evidence of either and the game itself says otherwise, or "Servants can't be 3-A" with no further explaination as if that alone is an actual reason
- 2,485
- 309
If it isn't specified, there's no real reason to assume straight away it's real considering conceptual stuff is how the whole thing started and ended in the first place and other context doesn't support scaling to other characters.ShiroyashaGinSan said:
- 31,701
- 5,478
Wouldn't Kingprotea be affected as well?
- 2,485
- 309
Pure scaling is terrible when it conflicts with on screen feats and showings which your proposal does. Suddenly it's now "this part applies, ignore the rest of the material". Honestly a terrible tactic for upgrading characters.ShiroyashaGinSan said:
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #153
If it isn't specified, we go for Vanilla. That's the way we do for every verse ever. And also it's a supporting feat to Kama.RegisNex1232 said:
- 2,485
- 309
Vanilla doesn't work with context and scaling.ShiroyashaGinSan said:
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #155
Like what? Goetia going back in time to create new earth? That's nothing anti-feat, he needs to create new concepts after all, destroying the universe won't do shit to advance it. Tiamat is literally said to be 4th dimension pocket.RegisNex1232 said:
Yeah, tell that to every other verse out there. Because they all use pure scaling one way or another. We even do that to Fate, we do that servants, we do that to everyone. You're no better than ScrewAttack at this point and it's saying something.
- 7,165
- 1,066
- Thread starter
- #157
Vanilla works with or without context. That's why we use Vanilla, we don't have any evidence for either, so we go for much safer option of similar to us. And it's a supporting feat for Kama so that scaling argument won't fly.RegisNex1232 said:
- 6,453
- 1,669
The MoonCell was able to generate a multitude of solar systems as well in Gilgamesh route of CCC.Gilgamesh wanted to go forth and conquer the sea of stars. This should scale to BB whom absorbed/Swallowed the mooncell.
Also, doesn't tiamats profiles say her 4D pocket is infinite in size?
Also, doesn't tiamats profiles say her 4D pocket is infinite in size?
- 2,485
- 309
Gilgamesh went to actual outer space in the end, not the Moon Cell. Goetia and Tiamat have nothing that can be twisted into Universal feats beyond dumb scaling, and trying to pretend otherwise is definitely not logical or smart at all.
Kama doesn't have anything else given that she never shows any combat potential on that level.
Kama doesn't have anything else given that she never shows any combat potential on that level.
- 6,453
- 1,669
The scans i posted specifically stated that they are still in the mooncell.
Similar threads
