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And when did Kama's universe is stated to be that? Because I didn't read it anywhere. And if you're saying that all universe that are commanded by a servant should be like that. Get outta here.StrongClick said:
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Kama's stats and skills/Big Fate 3-A to Low 2-C Revision
- Thread starter ShiroyashaGinSan
- Start date
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It is correlated with that skill though. The exposition about her burning love and how she will fill humanity with love as the beast of lapse is further elaborated upon that skill entry, at the very least on how it worksHeavens Feel said:
1. What you posted is Myriad Desire Accepting Constitution. That is not saying that the universe is infinite.
2. That doesn't relate to one another. Infinite universe is brought up on the fly.
Heavens_Feel
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The usage of that word had been common ever since Extella expand the cosmology and elaborate further on what universe meant. The specific use of both Þª│µ©¼Õ«çÕ«Ö and Þ¿ÿÚî▓Õ«çÕ«Ö as a separate type of universe are usually when both are used in the same text to differentiate between the two
Heavens_Feel
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ÕàâµØÑÒÇüÒé½Òâ╝Òâ×´╝ÅÒâ×Òâ╝Òâ®Òü»ÒüôÒü«õ©ûÒü½õ¢ÅÒü¥Òüåµò░ÕñÜÒü«õ║║ÚûôÒü«µ¼▓(þவé®)Òü½Õ┐£ÒüêÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒÇüÕº┐ÒéäÞâ¢ÕèøÒü½Ú½ÿµ¼íÒü«ÕñܵºÿµÇºÒéÆÕéÖÒüêÒüªÒüäÒüƒÒÇéÒüØÒüôÒü½Õ«çÕ«ÖÒü¿ÒüäÒüåþäíÞ¥║ÚÜøÒü«µÇºÞ│¬ÒüîÕèáÒéÅÒüúÒüƒÒüôÒü¿Òü½ÒéêÒéèÒÇüÒüØÒü«ÕñܵºÿµÇºÒü»ÕàÀõ¢ôþÜäÒü¬Õ¢óÒéƵîüÒüúÒüªµÿçÞÅ»ÒüòÒéîÒéïõ║ïÒü¿Òü¬ÒéïÒÇé
This part is the thing about the ideation of the infinitude of the universe is what allow kama/mara to reiterates herself endlessly. So you saying that the skill doesn't say anything about the correlation between infinite & universe is somewhat misleading
This part is the thing about the ideation of the infinitude of the universe is what allow kama/mara to reiterates herself endlessly. So you saying that the skill doesn't say anything about the correlation between infinite & universe is somewhat misleading
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Looking like one =/= being one either, and given the context regarding said term I'm very doubtful of it being one. Especially when such an environment can be redesigned as something else based on one's soul, with said soul not possessing 3-A power even after help from Servants.
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You know that Extella and Extra takes place mainly on Moon cell right? Oh I get it. I get it now. It's a program. It's a program exclusive to Extra continuity. That is why "observation universe"'s mechanics is similar to some rpg mechanics.
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GinSan, I can understand your frustration, and I agree with your points, but I ask you to simmer a little.
Heavens_Feel
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Though the usage of both Þª│µ©¼Õ«çÕ«Ö and Þ¿ÿÚî▓Õ«çÕ«Ö as a term might already been a common thing ever since CCC, considering IIRC what BB hacked to gain her uber hax was described as Þ¿ÿÚî▓Õ«çÕ«Ö in nature
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No, it isn't because it's not there. I can't see what you're talking about.Heavens Feel said:
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Looking like one and stated like one multiple times = being one. Don't be cynical, if they both look and told to be the universe, it is the universe.RegisNex1232 said:
Heavens_Feel
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Extra taking place on the Moon Cell doesn't automatically makes what info that came from it to be invalid/unusable to other entries. Considering the time tree as it is now is practically a Þª│µ©¼Õ«çÕ«Ö governed by Human Order. And things like Throne of Heroes and the realm where divine spirit now dwell are Þ¿ÿÚî▓Õ«çÕ«Ö. The reverse side of the world might count as Þ¿ÿÚî▓Õ«çÕ«Ö too but i'm not sure about that right now i have to check later. And those things aren't something exclusive to the Moon Cell either
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And Kama's universe is neither of them. I understand now, they are what they are as what they sound. The observation universe like Time Tree is observation universe because it is under a constant observation from Human Order. Memory universe like Throne of Heroes are memory universe because they collect the tales of the various heores, it is a memory of some sort.
Now, enlighten me, is Kama's universe sounds like either of them?
Now, enlighten me, is Kama's universe sounds like either of them?
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It looks like outer space, except filled with Kama copies and not stars or anything else. That is hardly strong evidence to treat it like an actual Universe when it functions more like a super Bounded Field.
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This is fine to apply. The Fate Downplay is unreal.
Heavens_Feel
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No, it isn't because it's not there. I can't see what you're talking about.ShiroyashaGinSan said:
Full entry on the skill itself says so
ÕàâµØÑÒÇüÒé½Òâ╝Òâ×´╝ÅÒâ×Òâ╝Òâ®Òü»ÒüôÒü«õ©ûÒü½õ¢ÅÒü¥Òüåµò░ÕñÜÒü«õ║║ÚûôÒü«µ¼▓(þவé®)Òü½Õ┐£ÒüêÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒÇüÕº┐ÒéäÞâ¢ÕèøÒü½Ú½ÿµ¼íÒü«ÕñܵºÿµÇºÒéÆÕéÖÒüêÒüªÒüäÒüƒÒÇéÒüØÒüôÒü½Õ«çÕ«ÖÒü¿ÒüäÒüåþäíÞ¥║ÚÜøÒü«µÇºÞ│¬ÒüîÕèáÒéÅÒüúÒüƒÒüôÒü¿Òü½ÒéêÒéèÒÇüÒüØÒü«ÕñܵºÿµÇºÒü»ÕàÀõ¢ôþÜäÒü¬Õ¢óÒéƵîüÒüúÒüªµÿçÞÅ»ÒüòÒéîÒéïõ║ïÒü¿Òü¬ÒéïÒÇé
ÒüØÒéîÒü»Õ«çÕ«ÖÒü½õ¢ÅÒü¥Òüåõ©Çõ║║õ©Çõ║║Òü«µ¼▓(þவé®)Òü½ÒÇüþó║Õ«ƒÒü½Õ»äÒéèµÀ╗ÒüäÒÇüþöÿÒéäÒüïÒüùÒÇüÕáòÞÉ¢ÒüòÒüøÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒü«µ¿®Þâ¢ÒÇéÞç¬Õ£¿Òü½Òé½Òé╣Òé┐Òâ×ÒéñÒé║ÕÅ»Þâ¢Òü¬ÒÇîÕà¿Õ»¥Õ┐£Õ×ïÞç¬ÕêåÒÇìÒüîµÿƒÕ▒æÒü«ÕªéÒüÅþäíµò░Òü½Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÕ«ÜþÉåÒÇé
Õì│ÒüíÒÇüþìúÒüƒÒéïÒé½Òâ╝Òâ×´╝ÅÒâ×Òâ╝Òâ®Òü»Õ¢╝ÕÑ│Òü¿ÒüäÒüåÕ«çÕ«ÖÒü½ÒüèÒüäÒüªþäíÚÖÉÒü½Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïÒÇé
1st paragraph talks about the infinitude of a universe, and how that sublimated into a NP-like stuff
2nd paragraph talks about it being an authority to corrupt human desires that can be freely customized and exist in an endless numbers much like the star
3rd paragraph talks about the correlation given in the 1st paragraph. Since kama/mara instill upon herself the ideation or concept, if you will; since the usage is kinda common in fate, of the infinitude of a universe, kama/mara herself also exist endlessly. As shown with the myriad kama/mara in the cutscene and the fight scene
So yes it is there. The skill does give some form of elaboration regarding the correlation between infinite and universe
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It is constantly stated to be universe, not just Kama but also Parvati, Mata Hari and other Chaldea members as well. Profiles also confirmed this. It is outer space, it functions like one if Kama didn't gave them conceptual oxygen and waro reality to create a floor.
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Statements are hyperbolic when certain fans decide that they don't like those statements. Also, saying that there are no explicit 3-A feats is a pretty interesting statement. Not a correct one, but interesting nontheless.
This is as straightforward as it gets. I agree with the upgrade.
This is as straightforward as it gets. I agree with the upgrade.
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This idea that world / universe can never mean what it intuitively does in the Nasuverse has to stop.
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If this goes nowhere, I might have to agree with Matthew. But I'm not a fan of just adding until there's a full conclusion.
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@Heaven
1st paragraph says about Kama's skills and abilities and how the skill was affected by adding power of the universe.
2nd paragraph says that she has infinite selves that is customizable and absolutely adaptive, to answer every desire there is.
3rd paragraph says that she has infinite selves across the universe.
You are bluffing at this point.
1st paragraph says about Kama's skills and abilities and how the skill was affected by adding power of the universe.
2nd paragraph says that she has infinite selves that is customizable and absolutely adaptive, to answer every desire there is.
3rd paragraph says that she has infinite selves across the universe.
You are bluffing at this point.
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I'll just point out one thing. Getting erased on a conceptual level and being described as a Void isn't enough for Type 2 Non-Existent Physiology. UKG did similar stuff and she's only Type 1. Type 2's predate everything in existence and are Transdual who don't even exist in any way imaginable.
So yeah, Type 1 Non-Existent Physiology.
So yeah, Type 1 Non-Existent Physiology.
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I thought UKG being conceptually erased was debunked rather than it not being enough for that rating?
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I mean if you are showing off your lack of understanding of how Nasu writes then go ahead. Reality tends to disagree, given the various terms like Universe of Awareness/Observation not referring to actual universes or worlds. And it's not like you are a Fate expert or someone with reliable sources.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Hmm. I thought it's Type 2. I'll change that.
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Stop. Don't straight up attack the user, green or blue. Yes, I'm losing my cool here but at least I'm trying to calm down. If you want to do this, then go to another thread.RegisNex1232 said:
Heavens_Feel
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The easiest differentation between the two is that observation have it's past present future not percieved simultaneously. While Record must have the clause that perceived time doesn't really apply to it. Considering that time doesn't stop being a thing/flow within her universe, it's very likely to be the former.ShiroyashaGinSan said:
In either case. Those two term deal less with the scale of something and more on the nature of it and whether it counts or not. And there was also no descriptor of scale that directly correlate to the universe within kama/mara. Considering some properties about it also lean towards the idea that her universe isn't a legitimate universe in any sense
Or you go the easiest route and it's just a conceptual universe. You saying that kama/mara conceptually manipulates it also support the notion. In which case it's not even a real thing and it doesn't have a real scale. In which case applying a label of scale upon it becomes rather moot
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This is completely just from you. It's never stated in the campaign, it's never stated anywhere. As long as it's called and looked like an universe, it is an actual universe.Heavens Feel said:
John985
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Gonna go ahead and say just add this. This is an oroboros (not a BB pun), despite evidence shown.
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I'm going to sleep now, just don't **** the thread up to the point that it'll going to be closed or to the point that nobody can keep up right.
Heavens_Feel
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Which it isn't as yagyuu and kasuga showed us. The whole place that the final act took place is just a room tinged with her power.
It doesn't say that. It says that it's an authority that ensure each and every desire is bundled up together, pampered, and corrupted. Something about theorem/formula[?], that is endless like the stars, not even infinite was used in that paragraph. and it can be freely customized
infinitely present/existing infinitely is what i'd use but having an infinite selves is not an inaccurate way to localize that part imo. But the line didn't say about across the universe
Which is what i said. Though rather than "power", it's closer to "nature" of universeShiroyashaGinSan said:
It doesn't say that. It says that it's an authority that ensure each and every desire is bundled up together, pampered, and corrupted. Something about theorem/formula[?], that is endless like the stars, not even infinite was used in that paragraph. and it can be freely customized
infinitely present/existing infinitely is what i'd use but having an infinite selves is not an inaccurate way to localize that part imo. But the line didn't say about across the universe
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The main problem is the scaling.Milly Rocking Bandit said:
There has to be a middle-ground between "Make everyone who is 5-B or above Low 2-C" and "Nobody in the Nasuverse is actually 5-B because world means another thing"
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^thisMatthew Schroeder said:
I agree with the upgrade.
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These are just the 4-B/5-A people that are being upgraded though.ShiroyashaGinSan said:
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I don't think the Type should scale because we don't know how they comapre to the Beasts, we haven't had a mention of Types in ages. I also don't think the other Beasts should scale because their is nothing that says Beast's are all the same strength, their Beasts becuase of their paradoxical love of mankind not because they are all universe level in strength, and none of them have feats that scale that high, though Kiara might scale, and Saver as well as Amaterasu almost definitely scale to Kama.
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"Only Kiara, Saver, Amaterasu, Tiamat, Goetia and Solomon would scale I think.
Since apparently Gilgamesh and the others didn't defeat Kiara at full power but they'd still be 5-A thanks to her NP."
^ Ever's take. I think he makes the most sense.
Since apparently Gilgamesh and the others didn't defeat Kiara at full power but they'd still be 5-A thanks to her NP."
^ Ever's take. I think he makes the most sense.
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I am unsure about several characters being scaled.
Karna, Types and characters scaling from Types. Because it seems to me that the whole "they are the strongest" is really being streched here. But, if people are ok with it, then so be it.
Karna, Types and characters scaling from Types. Because it seems to me that the whole "they are the strongest" is really being streched here. But, if people are ok with it, then so be it.
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Guys, remember thisVeloxt1r0kore said:
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Archetype Earth should be superior to the beasts so she should scale
The other types are supposed to be roughly equal to eachother so they might scale to her
The other types are supposed to be roughly equal to eachother so they might scale to her
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