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Kaido vs Big Mom (One Piece) Battle of Yonko...
- Thread starter Meshifuari_Arimota
- Start date
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Give me a moment, I am a human being... Doing other stuff. You're saying 4... I see only 3
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Ah, okay. Well got a bit confused with "Big Meme"... added.
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What's the reasoning like at all? Kaido's stronger, way tougher and Linlin's hax doesn't work on him.
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Well the main points brought up by other people is that she's more versatile while being comparable in strenght and prometheus/zeus will give her the edge she needs to win.
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Comparable in strength has not been proven. Wait till next chapter to see what the result of the clash was. All other feats and hype point to Kaido Physically.
As for versatility, what exactly am I missing here?
Weather manipulation: check for both
Fire manipulation: check for both
Flight: check for both
Unless Big Mom's saliva is going to carry her through or her hax actually works on Kaido, I don't see this versatile advantage.
As for versatility, what exactly am I missing here?
Weather manipulation: check for both
Fire manipulation: check for both
Flight: check for both
Unless Big Mom's saliva is going to carry her through or her hax actually works on Kaido, I don't see this versatile advantage.
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Remember, Big Mom has just recently been tied up with 100% seastone chains which would drain her power and strength considerable. So, Big Mom was slightly handicapped in her strength atm, unlike Kaido, who is fresh and probably just coming back from a hangover.
And iirc, most of the times when Big Mom uses Napoleon, she always uses two hands. It how she wield her sword
And iirc, most of the times when Big Mom uses Napoleon, she always uses two hands. It how she wield her sword
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She wasn't visibly affected by the Seastone even before being freed. Claiming being weak because of it is dubious.
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We don't know that. In the manga and in the anime, it seemingly affected Luffy when he attacked her. She can create an army of homies pretty easily and is not at all afraid, even when in the midst of Yonko territory and surrounded, all while by herself. Kaido as stronger than Big Mom is just unproven hype for his character by fans. The Yonko are all equal or they would have killed the weaker one already. Most likely, their fight will be a draw, but in this match, I'd give it to Big Mom. Oda constantly has to nerf her to help Luffy and co. escape.The Calaca said:
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Stronger? Way tougher? Based off of what? Their clash was equal. The only time BM has ever been injured at all has been in her nerfed and out of her right mind state. As she is rn, she has no problems keeping up with Kaido. She doesn't get damaged at all and, when weakened by amnesia, still took out Queen in two hits.The Calaca said:
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@The Calaca - Be that as it may, Seastone still drain the energy of Devil Fruit Users. You don't have to be visibly affected to show that the effect is happening.
I mean, Luffy wasn't visibly affected by the Seastone either, yet during early stages in Udon, he was nearly beaten by that Elephant Smile user in one shot and complain about if only he could Haki.
I mean, Luffy wasn't visibly affected by the Seastone either, yet during early stages in Udon, he was nearly beaten by that Elephant Smile user in one shot and complain about if only he could Haki.
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@Sword Guy
That's not her hax. That's an unknown ability we can't really say what is it (I bet Power Nullification on Haki).
She creating Homies to fight is out of character, and most of them are fodder against Kaido. Only those created by her soul would turn the tides, but she's not spamming that ability.
>Kaido being stronger is unproven
Still ignoring that Linlin clashed not only with Gear 4th but Gear 3rd as well (plus Sanji) while Kaido outright no-sold an enraged stronger Gear 4th barrage. The difference might not be like 10x like some of you might be interpreting, but it's clearly big enough to prove him above her. That discounting the hybrid form which for some reason people's still ignoring.
The Yonko have to be comparable, but that doesn't mean equal. Kaido's stated to be directly above the rest of the others (possibly excluding Shirohige who's dead now) and being unkillable despite being caught by enemies in the past.
What Oda does with the character matter little. He nerfing Linlin doesn't make her equal and let alone above Kaido.
>Based off of what?
Do I have to repeat myself? Sorry, but if you're just skipping the argument it's not my fault.
On top of that, if you're going to play the invulnerability card, let me remind you that Kaido hasn't been damaged on-screen and is explicitly stated to be "immortal". No NLFing of course. They both have a limit but it's clearly Kaido who's going to bypass Linlin's limit first.
@Kobster
Seastone drains as long as the user is in contact. Linlin was able to eat and impose fear in people even when restrained by the biggest amount of Seastone we have ever seen on an user. The moment the Seastone leaves contact, the user is free of its influence.
That's not her hax. That's an unknown ability we can't really say what is it (I bet Power Nullification on Haki).
She creating Homies to fight is out of character, and most of them are fodder against Kaido. Only those created by her soul would turn the tides, but she's not spamming that ability.
>Kaido being stronger is unproven
Still ignoring that Linlin clashed not only with Gear 4th but Gear 3rd as well (plus Sanji) while Kaido outright no-sold an enraged stronger Gear 4th barrage. The difference might not be like 10x like some of you might be interpreting, but it's clearly big enough to prove him above her. That discounting the hybrid form which for some reason people's still ignoring.
The Yonko have to be comparable, but that doesn't mean equal. Kaido's stated to be directly above the rest of the others (possibly excluding Shirohige who's dead now) and being unkillable despite being caught by enemies in the past.
What Oda does with the character matter little. He nerfing Linlin doesn't make her equal and let alone above Kaido.
>Based off of what?
Do I have to repeat myself? Sorry, but if you're just skipping the argument it's not my fault.
On top of that, if you're going to play the invulnerability card, let me remind you that Kaido hasn't been damaged on-screen and is explicitly stated to be "immortal". No NLFing of course. They both have a limit but it's clearly Kaido who's going to bypass Linlin's limit first.
@Kobster
Seastone drains as long as the user is in contact. Linlin was able to eat and impose fear in people even when restrained by the biggest amount of Seastone we have ever seen on an user. The moment the Seastone leaves contact, the user is free of its influence.
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@Calaca The fact is that the two appeared equal when they clashed. Kaido was arguably bloodlusted. I'm not skipping anything, you're the one basing their argument off of what we haven't seen. Kaido's hybrid form? We can't use it because we haven't seen it. I hope you seriously don't think that you've seen all of BM's capabilities based on WCI. BM is clearly at least equal to Kaido in power. She does not fear him. And she NEVER went all out at WCI because she underestimated the Straw Hats.
And who said 10x? I never brought that argument up once. Yonko are all near equal in power. I'm pretty sure that BM could have no sold G4 punches as well. And again, we don't know if it was her ability or Haki so you can't immediately dismiss it as not being part of her df. Also, Kaido wasn't stated to be above the other Yonko. The narration just said that people say to bet on Kaido in a one on one fight. The same narrator tells us that he's been beaten multiple times.
Also, Kaido has wounds. And was stated to have been defeated multiple times and captured by other Yonko multiple times. He isn't the invincible beast you claim he is.
And no, you don't have to repeat yourself. We already get your argument. Our argument is that BM has more versatility. She can change the landscape to her advantage, she can fly, she is just as tough as Kaido, and she is more intelligent and less likely to try to show off her strength. I think you're seriously underestimating Big Mom.
And who said 10x? I never brought that argument up once. Yonko are all near equal in power. I'm pretty sure that BM could have no sold G4 punches as well. And again, we don't know if it was her ability or Haki so you can't immediately dismiss it as not being part of her df. Also, Kaido wasn't stated to be above the other Yonko. The narration just said that people say to bet on Kaido in a one on one fight. The same narrator tells us that he's been beaten multiple times.
Also, Kaido has wounds. And was stated to have been defeated multiple times and captured by other Yonko multiple times. He isn't the invincible beast you claim he is.
And no, you don't have to repeat yourself. We already get your argument. Our argument is that BM has more versatility. She can change the landscape to her advantage, she can fly, she is just as tough as Kaido, and she is more intelligent and less likely to try to show off her strength. I think you're seriously underestimating Big Mom.
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Most of you guys that are saying Kaido are basing this off of hype. The truth is, until we've seen what they both can do, we can't really say who would win. Neither has gone all out yet. All we have to go on is their physical clash, from which it can be reasoned that physically they are pretty closely matched. Their lore also supports this, with BM being said to never get a scratch (she doesn't even have scars, something that all other Yonko do have) and Kaido attempting suicide as a hobby because of his "unkillable" nature. So physically equal, but BM has far more versatility from what we've seen.
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>>On top of that, if you're going to play the invulnerability card, let me remind you that Kaido hasn't been damaged on-screen and is explicitly stated to be "immortal".
You're the one who put that on his profile aren't you? We decided a long time ago that's false and Kaido is neither invulnerable nor immortal. His stats are simply that much stronger than everyone else so he might as well be.
You're the one who put that on his profile aren't you? We decided a long time ago that's false and Kaido is neither invulnerable nor immortal. His stats are simply that much stronger than everyone else so he might as well be.
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A draw would be an Inconclusive
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@Fix Nope, I haven't added anything related to that to Kaido's profile. The way I see it, Invulnerability is hardly applicable outside of RPGs.
@Sword guy
> The fact is that the two appeared equal when they clashed
Appeared =/= Are. They look comparable, that doesn't mean they are equal.
> Kaido was arguably bloodlusted
Where's the base of this "arguably bloodlust"? If he were truly bloodlusted he wouldn't order his minions to free Linlin only to clash her and would outright kill her on the spot.
> We can't use it because we haven't seen it
That's cute. It's not negating the fact that the Hybrid Form is more prone to exist that to not, and the dragon form should still be an amp since dragons > humans.
> Big Mom underestimated the Straw Hats
Yes, before she started her cravings and was literally cakelusted, killing her children and rampaging at her own country.
> 10x
It was an example. God, it's like you can't put examples because people think you're quoting them.
> I'm pretty sure that BM could have no sold G4 punches as well
You can think whatever you want, but you can't put those ideas without more evidence on the wiki.
Linlin used Haki to block a Kong Gun. Kaido tanked a Kong Organ barrage. There's a difference, whether you like it or not.
> Her ability
What are you talking about? The supposed ability that turned Gear 4th off? We have no clear evidence of what is, and we can't say for sure. This isn't like Kaido's Hybrid Form that has prior cases to support it, this is an outright unknown ability.
> The narrator
1 v 1 fight: Kaido will win.
Kaido has lost before. It doesn't mean he has lost in a 1 v 1 fight. In fact, both sentences don't contradict each other. Kaido could lost against 2 different characters at the same time and that wouldn't affect his first statement. Big Mom is one entity (since the Homies are basically her soul), so it's a 1 v 1 fight after all.
> Invincible beast
Eh, can you quote the part where I said this?
> Versatility
Again? Kaido can also fly, change the landscape. Linlin isn't as tough as Kaido. At best she's almost as tough as him, but Kaido has been depicted above that. He has a scar, that's cool. Do we know who done it? Or how was done it? Nope. Linlin can be harmed through emotional ways, but it opens the possibility of she being harmed after all. Kaido has been captured and even in that state nobody could've kill him. Doesn't that mean anything to you?
Also, more intelligent? Based on what?
The only thing Big Mom has that Kaido doesn't is soulhax that shouldn't work on him and electricity manipulation which works by energy and it doesn't turn the tides of the battle like at all.
@Sword guy
> The fact is that the two appeared equal when they clashed
Appeared =/= Are. They look comparable, that doesn't mean they are equal.
> Kaido was arguably bloodlusted
Where's the base of this "arguably bloodlust"? If he were truly bloodlusted he wouldn't order his minions to free Linlin only to clash her and would outright kill her on the spot.
> We can't use it because we haven't seen it
That's cute. It's not negating the fact that the Hybrid Form is more prone to exist that to not, and the dragon form should still be an amp since dragons > humans.
> Big Mom underestimated the Straw Hats
Yes, before she started her cravings and was literally cakelusted, killing her children and rampaging at her own country.
> 10x
It was an example. God, it's like you can't put examples because people think you're quoting them.
> I'm pretty sure that BM could have no sold G4 punches as well
You can think whatever you want, but you can't put those ideas without more evidence on the wiki.
Linlin used Haki to block a Kong Gun. Kaido tanked a Kong Organ barrage. There's a difference, whether you like it or not.
> Her ability
What are you talking about? The supposed ability that turned Gear 4th off? We have no clear evidence of what is, and we can't say for sure. This isn't like Kaido's Hybrid Form that has prior cases to support it, this is an outright unknown ability.
> The narrator
1 v 1 fight: Kaido will win.
Kaido has lost before. It doesn't mean he has lost in a 1 v 1 fight. In fact, both sentences don't contradict each other. Kaido could lost against 2 different characters at the same time and that wouldn't affect his first statement. Big Mom is one entity (since the Homies are basically her soul), so it's a 1 v 1 fight after all.
> Invincible beast
Eh, can you quote the part where I said this?
> Versatility
Again? Kaido can also fly, change the landscape. Linlin isn't as tough as Kaido. At best she's almost as tough as him, but Kaido has been depicted above that. He has a scar, that's cool. Do we know who done it? Or how was done it? Nope. Linlin can be harmed through emotional ways, but it opens the possibility of she being harmed after all. Kaido has been captured and even in that state nobody could've kill him. Doesn't that mean anything to you?
Also, more intelligent? Based on what?
The only thing Big Mom has that Kaido doesn't is soulhax that shouldn't work on him and electricity manipulation which works by energy and it doesn't turn the tides of the battle like at all.
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This argument is going in circles. I've already explained why Big Mom would be the most likely winner and apparently four others agree with me.
@Calaca I'm not going to keep explaining this. The two are physically equal. They are portrayed as such in the latest chapter. A lot of your arguments feel more like speculations. You assume Big Mom never damaged Kaido and yet the narrator explicitly states that he has lost and has been captured by the other Yonko. You believe that he may have lost in a one against many fight? What other Big Mom pirate can actually damage Kaido? Luffy beat the second in command and was still one shotted. No one is hurting Kaido except Big Mom. If he was captured, it was either her intelligence (which answers your "more intelligent? Based on what?" question) or her strength. You say that the fact that BM has been damaged is proof she can be hurt, but the same can be said for Kaido. He has scars unlike BM and has a loss record, unlike BM. Also, if you want to use the argument that they have never fought before, they were part of the same crew and are clearly familiar with each other's abilities and respect each other's strength.
Big Mom is not bothered at all by the fact that she may have to go against all three of the Calamities along with Kaido. She is clearly very confident in her strength. Even Kaido tried to make sure she couldn't make it to the island, because he knew of the danger. And also, Kaido literally tells BM that he would kill her before they clash and in the panel afterwards, Kaido's face is visibly enraged.
Also, Kaido can't change the landscape.And it's funny that you are allowed to use "10x" as an "example", but then criticize my interpretation of your interpretation of Kaido. You shouldn't be a hypocrite. Big Mom is more versatile easily. I don't get how that is even debatable. BM has one of the most versatile df's we've seen in the series. She can control elements, spy on others, take souls, fly, merge with her elemental homies (all the things we saw with Prometheus and Zeus), and can kill you instantly if you fear death. Now obviously Kaido won't fear death, but if that was all BM relied on then she wouldn't be a Yonko. So to reiterate, Kaido and Big Mom are physically equal or at least pretty close, but BM is more versatile. (Zoans were always less versatile and more physical than Paramecias anyway). We don't know if Kaido's hybrid form is actually stronger or not, if it was then why didn't he immediately use it against BM? Regardless, BM takes this fight, as of now. We need to see more feats from both to know for sure.
@Calaca I'm not going to keep explaining this. The two are physically equal. They are portrayed as such in the latest chapter. A lot of your arguments feel more like speculations. You assume Big Mom never damaged Kaido and yet the narrator explicitly states that he has lost and has been captured by the other Yonko. You believe that he may have lost in a one against many fight? What other Big Mom pirate can actually damage Kaido? Luffy beat the second in command and was still one shotted. No one is hurting Kaido except Big Mom. If he was captured, it was either her intelligence (which answers your "more intelligent? Based on what?" question) or her strength. You say that the fact that BM has been damaged is proof she can be hurt, but the same can be said for Kaido. He has scars unlike BM and has a loss record, unlike BM. Also, if you want to use the argument that they have never fought before, they were part of the same crew and are clearly familiar with each other's abilities and respect each other's strength.
Big Mom is not bothered at all by the fact that she may have to go against all three of the Calamities along with Kaido. She is clearly very confident in her strength. Even Kaido tried to make sure she couldn't make it to the island, because he knew of the danger. And also, Kaido literally tells BM that he would kill her before they clash and in the panel afterwards, Kaido's face is visibly enraged.
Also, Kaido can't change the landscape.And it's funny that you are allowed to use "10x" as an "example", but then criticize my interpretation of your interpretation of Kaido. You shouldn't be a hypocrite. Big Mom is more versatile easily. I don't get how that is even debatable. BM has one of the most versatile df's we've seen in the series. She can control elements, spy on others, take souls, fly, merge with her elemental homies (all the things we saw with Prometheus and Zeus), and can kill you instantly if you fear death. Now obviously Kaido won't fear death, but if that was all BM relied on then she wouldn't be a Yonko. So to reiterate, Kaido and Big Mom are physically equal or at least pretty close, but BM is more versatile. (Zoans were always less versatile and more physical than Paramecias anyway). We don't know if Kaido's hybrid form is actually stronger or not, if it was then why didn't he immediately use it against BM? Regardless, BM takes this fight, as of now. We need to see more feats from both to know for sure.
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That would be Inconclusive... Are you voting on that or..?Bambo Rt said:
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>>How does Big Mom defeat someone she can't hurt?
>>Wait till next chap to see the result of their clash
>>What versatility does Big Mom have over Kaido besides soul hax and acidic saliva?
Until these topics are actually addressed I beleive the OP should remove the votes for Big Mom. The reason being that all the "For reasosn above" go back to "comparable physically" and "More vers" without having proven said reasons nor addressed counter arguments.
No offense to Rei, Sword, Lenna, or Violet. Just pointing out how VS threads work.
>>Wait till next chap to see the result of their clash
>>What versatility does Big Mom have over Kaido besides soul hax and acidic saliva?
Until these topics are actually addressed I beleive the OP should remove the votes for Big Mom. The reason being that all the "For reasosn above" go back to "comparable physically" and "More vers" without having proven said reasons nor addressed counter arguments.
No offense to Rei, Sword, Lenna, or Violet. Just pointing out how VS threads work.
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I mean I could just close this Thread and wait for more info about both Yonkos, if it's fine with everyone included.
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Personally, after reading through the thread, I lean towards Kaido, honestly BUT agree that we should wait to see the results of the two clashing to get a better idea of where they stand compared to each other. Just because two characters are comparable won't mean equal. Especially in their various attributes. Going further, as stated above, there does seem to be a difference between their respective toughness. If BM has to use Haki to deal with a single Kong Gun while Kaido can just tank a Kong Organ to the face (I'll assume without Haki), that is a demonstrated difference.
Also, having more versatility doesn't mean that much if doesn't effect your opponent in the long run.
Also, having more versatility doesn't mean that much if doesn't effect your opponent in the long run.
Eminiteable
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Voting for Kaido after what's been said, her hax isn't going to work on him FRA, Homies will likely be fodder FRA and the strength(or at least durability advantage) should give Kaido the win.
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The votes for BM are perfectly valid and you can't disprove them without headcanon, speculation and assumptions. 1) You can't prove BM can't hurt Kaido 2) Kaido is a physical brawler, BM can match him in that regard and has Zeus/Prometheus who are very powerful giving her elemental attacks, which she can incorporate into her physical prowess. Plus using her soul powers mid fight to give life to other homies and have the environment help her.
Some people don't think Kaido is a gazillion times stronger than everyone else, nothing you can do about it
Some people don't think Kaido is a gazillion times stronger than everyone else, nothing you can do about it
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1) That was complete speculation on your part. It is obvious that she can hurt him. Kaido just stood there and tanked Luffy's blows, but clashed equally with BM. I can't believe this is seriously a debate. If she couldn't hurt him then she would have been killed by him long ago. No other Big Mom Pirate could hurt him. And she went to his territory in confidence. No offense but are we reading the same series?Dr.Fix said:
2) I agree. I can't wait for Oda to shut up the people who think BM would lose to Kaido even though neither has overpowered and taken out the other yet.
3) Look at my earlier posts. I already explained several times what versatility that BM has over Kaido. I'm not explaining it again. Others have also explained their reasoning as well.
The only thing that you can try to base Kaido off of is his shrugging off of Luffy's attacks. There is no proof that BM needed Haki against Luffy. For all we know, she could have just used it to get rid of G4 and tire him out instantly. Luffy has never harmed her. When she had amnesia and wasn't even using Haki, she casually knocked back both Luffy and Hyougoro, who both were using a more advanced Haki.
I seriously don't get how you people think one Yonko can actually straight up destroy another Yonko. If it were that easy, they would already have done so. Once again, NO OTHER BIG MOM PIRATE IS HURTING KAIDO. If he went into WCI, the only defense they would have is BIG MOM. WE'VE ALREADY HEARD ABOUT HIM KILLING OFF ALL OF GECKO MORIA'S CREW, SO WE KNOW IT IS IN CHARACTER FOR HIM TO DO THAT. THERE IS A REASON THAT SHE HASN'T BEEN BEATEN YET. Even the Pirate King ran from her at one point. We still don't have a loss record for Big Mom, but we have one for Kaido. So stop downplaying Big Mom.
Eminiteable
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Tbf it's said "if it's one-on-one Kaido will win" implying a Yonko with the rest of their crews could defeat him.Sword guy Z said:
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Tbf it's said "if it's one-on-one Kaido will win" implying a Yonko with the rest of their crews could defeat him.
That makes so much sense! Seeing as how Luffy beat Big Mom's strongest commander and he was one shotted, the other Big Mom pirates definitely last more than one second against Kaido!
In all seriousness, read my earlier posts. Simple logic would show you how that doesn't make sense, based off of what we've seen so far in the manga.
He could literally blitz and one shot everyone in Big Mom's crew except for Big Mom herself.
That makes so much sense! Seeing as how Luffy beat Big Mom's strongest commander and he was one shotted, the other Big Mom pirates definitely last more than one second against Kaido!
In all seriousness, read my earlier posts. Simple logic would show you how that doesn't make sense, based off of what we've seen so far in the manga.
He could literally blitz and one shot everyone in Big Mom's crew except for Big Mom herself.
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Kaido fra
Big mom can't hax him and no one can prove it :^)
Kaido takes it mid-high diff
Big mom can't hax him and no one can prove it :^)
Kaido takes it mid-high diff
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Suicide Man FRA
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That makes so much sense! Seeing as how Luffy beat Big Mom's strongest commander and he was one shotted, the other Big Mom pirates definitely last more than one second against Kaido!Sword guy Z said:
In all seriousness, read my earlier posts. Simple logic would show you how that doesn't make sense, based off of what we've seen so far in the manga.
He could literally blitz and one shot everyone in Big Mom's crew except for Big Mom herself.
To be fair Katakuri was slapping around Boundman with minimal effort too. He's not on Kaido level ofc but he's definitley above Boundman Luffy. And Katakuri is a master of future sight while Luffy just learned it. Not trying to derail, but Yonko Commanders on paper are fodder to Yonko, but if a Yonko is fighting someone with equal strength as them (another Yonko) + the said Yonko's top fighters, then the tides turn greatly in the Yonko with allies' favor. We seen how far good support can go in One Piece. Alot of Usopp's fight's where typically he's not strong compared to his opponents, Straw Hats vs Oars, Luffy and Law vs Doffy, and then Trebol's involvmemnt later which helped, even though Trebol was nowhere near the other 3.....Luffy and Nami vs Cracker, etc.
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@Jo-Smooth I completely disagree for various reasons, but I'm done arguing. Katakuri couldn't take the barrage Kaido took. And no, he was at the same strength levels as G4 but his future sight gave him a great advantage. Current Luffy has advanced Future sight as well. Simple logic should dictate that no one in Big Mom's crew should be able to take more than a single hit from Kaido and he's faster than all of them. It's crazy to me how you people believe Kaido is so strong that he's basically the unstoppable god tier of One Piece, but then have him losing to people G4 Luffy would destroy. Big Mom's crew don't make a difference. Kaido's crew has already demonstrated that it's the stronger crew. So if the captain was stronger than Big Mom, then what happens? But at this point it is what it is. You can feel free to believe what you want. I'm done replying. We'll get confirmation from Oda soon enough.
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