Kaguya Houraisan vs Yhwach

[FateAlbane]

Yes, it should, unless what you were planning to do gets rewritten out of the future that is to come before it has a chance to happen. Case in point, the result of Kaguya's actions get changed. There's nothing wrong with the causality if her intended action was altered before it even made it to the present moment.

Hence, unless she can influence the future in advance like Yhwach, her ability won't even have a chance to actually happen.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Doesn't Yhwach's thing only manipulate the future tho? Kaguya's action of causing Yhwach and possibly the area to be eternal would be in the process of happening/already having happened. The effect is part of the future, the cause is the present. If Yhwach can only affect the future, he would have to modify it through Kaguya's Eternity effect.

 

[FateAlbane]

It would happen after she had the thought of activating it. Her thought comes first, then, in the future, the power. "Because Kaguya had the thought to activate her power, her power happened."

And the case in point is that by rewritting, he's basically applying another result after the cause pops up. "Because Kaguya had the thought to activate her power... (Insert outcome that favors Yhwach or outright prevents her from using it here)."

Well, yes. The effect is coming in the future, but what value remains in the cause (Thought) if the Effect that is still to come from it (Power) is what gets altered?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No. The powers activate at the same time due to OP rules. So it would be the present for both of their power.

And that's what I'm talking about. The very idea of immutability means that it won't be able to be changed. If she applies it to her or Yhwach, it may not be able to be changed by the Almighty.

 

[FateAlbane]

Like I said, the powers activate at the same time, but the Almighty influences the future that will result from Kaguya's power in advance - only infinite speed Kaguya would make it possible for her power to happen at 0.0 seconds as it needs to be activated by thought. She and Yhwach will think to activate them at the same time, and their thoughts will take the same time to make their powers work.

Yhwach won't no sell Eternity Manip. Almighty will change what Kaguya's activation results in before it happens or even make it so that the activation fails. You can't say her power is coming in the present moment without implying she takes 0.0 seconds for all the activation process.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

So both powers activate at the same time. Logically this means the very existence of Kaguya's Eternity Manip will happen at the present of the ability activating, which against means Yhwach won't be able to rewrite the cause. since it happens right now. At least that's how I understand his power.

 

[FateAlbane]

The problem is that activating at the same time still gives Yhwach the advantage in activation because he influences what is still to come. Meaning he and Kaguya activate it at once (cause), but whatever result (effect) should come from this, he may change it. Kaguya intends to use her power but like Ichigo, sees it had already failed in the future and appears in the present as such when the moment where it happens comes. Yhwach doesn't need -and indeed can't - rewrite the cause that's happening in the very present, but he sure can change the effect that is coming from it.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

This is a missmatch,Yhwach one shots. Her powers are negated exactly as Ichibei even when they are in effect.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We are coming back to weather or not Yhwach can just erase away the effect of the Eternity on him and Kaguya.

IIRC Yhwach hasn't just erased powers from effect like that before, and the very nature of Kaguya's abilities means it's resistent/immune to change.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Hokage Nah, it's no mismatch. Yhwach can't one shot Kaguya with her Low-Godly Regen. And just like we can't speculate on Kaguya's powers, it would also be speculation to say that Yhwach can no sell some sort of hax that he never fought against. Kaguya would freeze him in a state of eternal stasis if she just had the chance to (if this wasn't equal speed, Kaguya would actually take it).

 

[HokageMangaVox]

He will absorb her and her powers. He was ink with ichibe's powers removing his name an all of his powers along with the memories of said things, he was given capabilities of an ant, still the Almighty negated it and he one shotted him. In EoS he a lot stronger than with Alighty. Given that she is fodder, her hax won't work. Of course, if you can show me her powers working on a planet lvl opponent we could have a debate. If not this is a missmatch on Yhwach's favor.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

That's not how hax work.

Hax is meant to work on a higher opponent. If Bleach hax doesn't work that way then it's Bleach's problems, but Kaguya should still be able to affect him. As far as I know, verse equalization doesn't work in that way.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Hokage While I am on Yhwach's side for this match and because of that have no obligation to show any feat for Kaguya...

Hax don't work on conventional durability or AP terms, bro. They're called that precisely because they're broken abilities that may work regardless of a difference in raw power. Hence, why Kaguya's powers should still work on the opponent, AP and Durability be danmed.

The same would apply to Yhwach if he fought a being with more AP and Dura but a lack of hax: It would be assumed his powers would work unless his opponent had counters for that.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Can I start making Yhwach VS SSB Goku then?

 

[FateAlbane]

Sure, if you want to see Yhwach getting speed stomped and one shotted into oblivion... Also, please stay on topic, lest we get sidetracked here.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Sure, if you want to see Yhwach getting speed stomped and one shotted into oblivion...

According to you it doesn't matter if i equalize speed, because of Hax. Lmaoo

 

[FateAlbane]

• sigh* Good grief. I'll make this my last reply to you as I already see where this is going. Depending on the hax of said character, yes, equalizing speed may give the win to a character who originally would have no way of winning. Now if you want to see for yourself, please go ahead and just make whatever thread you desire. See what happens. You might be surprised.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well uh to get back on topic.

So you agree that Yhwach can't just prevent her from using her abilities if she attacks at the same time he do.

But now I question if Yhwach can just Almighty away her Eternity off him and her.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I already know the result, same as this. This match is a stomp in Yhwach's favor. Even with equal speed Goku wins againts Yhwach. Because of NLF, Kaguya can't hurt Yhwach. Neither can Yhwach harm Goku.Period.

 

[FateAlbane]

Eh, I'm just tired by now, Saikou. I'll just say whatever, let it go and accept whatever result. Just can't be bothered anymore.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Fate noooo. rip. Well okay.

@Hokage There is a nice little thing called hax that can put down Yhwach despite AP difference.

 

[Daebreak]

Yhwach can think,activate, see and rewrite all at the same time? (his ability is deactivated so he cant see things before he activate, right?) speed is equalized so he have to do those 4 actions at the same time kaguya is only doing 2 actions , if he can do those 4 actions faster than Kaguya, than maybe yeah. but still i don't think her ability only work in the present but instead at the present and future at the same time (but this doesn't metter because he's trying to change something that is already happening).

i have a question almighty work like this: see the future and change something there?

 

[HokageMangaVox]

People forget that Ichibei activated his ability >>the power effects of his ability worked on Yhwach >>> He activates the Almighty (Without knowning his own name or that of his powers which were also REWRITTEN by Ichibei's power) >>>His Almighty still works and makes inmune under their influence. Missmatch.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Daebreak Speculation on Kaguya's power with no feats and theorizing, but with no proof whatsoever... More questions that have already been answered above, many times... Please, read the discussion first, then make your point, lest it'll be a moot one.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Hokage Kinda NLF to assume it will work on Kaguya's abilities. Ichibei's abilities seems to work way differently than Kaguya's.

Also could you please stop saying missmatch everytime you say something here.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Saikou By now, I'm almost requesting a mod to just close this thread, myself. If there's an eternity, it's how long we've been here going back to points we already discussed/explained, time and again.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not as long as Sans vs Beerus yet.

But considering we seem to stall for now, then maybe?

 

[HokageMangaVox]

@Hokage Kinda NLF to assume it will work on Kaguya's abilities. Ichibei's abilities seems to work way differently than Kaguya's.
Also could you please stop saying missmatch everytime you say something here.

Yhwach is way beyond her lvl it will be NLF to assume that she can hurt him. Ichibei's power are Low-conceptual manipulation. With a single attack he can remove the whole stats info of a character page here in Vs. battle wiki and replace it with whatever he wants, if he wants to give then ants status, he can. Making it a NLF, so it only works on characters below country lvl, otherwise with equal speed he would be able to solo Galuctus, and I'm not kidding. This is a missmatch, only NLF on Kaguya's part.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Kaguya can only "hurt" him through hax, how many time did I tell you this?

It's still vastly different from Kaguya's "time manipulation", especially as Kaguya's thing rejects change, so it's not just that it Incapcitates Yhwach, it would also resist his attempts to undo it.

 

[Daebreak]

No, already read all, and you keep repeating youself, Yhwach see the future change it before Kaguya active her ability, the only thing you say is, he think and activate his ablity like Kaguya, so seeing and rewriting happens at the same instant? yeah it's only theory her ability working at the present and future at same time, but you can't assume that only work in the present too, or do you have proof?(and like i said doesn't matter that because he is changing something that is already happening.)

 

[FateAlbane]

@Daebreak Oh, look, now it's proof fallacy together with the NLF. You want me to prove that her powers don't work both at the present and the future at once when it's actually on you to prove that her powers work like that, with feats. Fascinating.