The Father of Chakra Vs The Father of the Quincy

[ReaperAndBlues]

Hag can use genjutsu and sealing to deal with Gerards immortality.

Great, that's one, now if only another one doesn't, you know, break the seal.

If Askin uses gift breach, he will a, start killing his own side, and give hago a perfect space for Six Paths deva techniques.

I never said they would all go in at once. Jugram's casualty manip also ***** over anything Hags does. If Hags does anything involving the Rinnegan, Jugram's gonna reverse it since most of his stuff is gonna hit the Freund Schlid

It requires the cross to fly into the air above Hago, which can be avoided.

He's getting jumped, it won't be that easy to dodge.

There's also still the fact that Yhwach and the other Quincies still have macro-quantum decon, regardless of Sklaverai, so the sheer creation of their weapons or arrows also decons Hagaromo.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Anyways, legitimately Yhwach FRA, the combination of all of this is gonna overwhelm Hags combined with the fact that Yhwach is a far better strategist as he actually has war experience

 

[Arcker123]

Great, that's one, now if only another one doesn't, you know, break the seal.

Prove they can do that?

I never said they would all go in at once. Jugram's casualty manip also ***** over anything Hags does. If Hags does anything involving the Rinnegan, Jugram's gonna reverse it since most of his stuff is gonna hit the Freund Schlid

It doesn't matter if they go in all at once, the Death dealing just has the range to affect everyone there.

Jugram was getting styled on by Kirinji in pure melee. The balance (especially pre aushwalen) won't be as powerful against gravity manip, which doesn't directly hit the shield.

He's getting jumped, it won't be that easy to dodge.

There's also still the fact that Yhwach and the other Quincies still have macro-quantum decon, regardless of Sklaverai, so the sheer creation of their weapons or arrows also decons Hagaromo.

He has EE + Powernull shields with TSO, so avoiding the jump will be doable.

They don't form weapons from their opponents reishi, it's never been shown doing that. They form weapons from ambient Reishi in the atmosphere.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Prove they can do that?

Yhwach himself can seal people like Gremmy, who is far more dangerous than Hags. Plus weaker Bleach characters like BOS Ichigo have broke out of sealing Kido.

It doesn't matter if they go in all at once, the Death dealing just has the range to affect everyone there.

Which is why Yhwach won't just throw Askin out like that. He's smart enough to plan ahead against Yama, so he would know that Askin would spell doom for them if he used the Deathdealing while they charged in. However, Lille still has his Diagramm which while Hags is occupied, he can hit him with it when he's offguard. There's also Pernida's power mimicry and RE which will allow him to learn Hags' moves and also buff him since we have energy systems equalized.

Jugram was getting styled on by Kirinji in pure melee. The balance (especially pre aushwalen) won't be as powerful against gravity manip, which doesn't directly hit the shield.

It would still crack the shield, and Kirinji disarmed Jugram being somewhat concious about it since Jugram also hinted that the shield was more than it seemed, also because Kinpika was stuck.

He has EE + Powernull shields with TSO, so avoiding the jump will be doable.

Doable, yet not simple. These guys also have resistence neg, infinite attack speed, dura neg, casualty manip, spatial manip, and all of Yhwach's bullshit, not to mention Zanka no Tachi and the 15 million degree EE flames that will vaporize Hagoromo and Blut Vene Anhaben which will corrode him too. All of this plus EE arrows will not be as easy as you think. Oh and God forbid Lille opens his eye and starts to become intangible and fires Ray of Judgment or Trompette, or just keep shooting more X-Axis shots with his wings.

They don't form weapons from their opponents reishi, it's never been shown doing that. They form weapons from ambient Reishi in the atmosphere.

They haven't done that because low-tier souls resist the baseline effect of such, so of course the weakest decon doesn't work on them. Hags has no resistance. Plus Vollstandig also subjugates reishi and the surrounding enviroment like Letz Stile, but also does it better, which unlike Sklaverai, the Sterns use in character.

 

[Arcker123]

Yhwach himself can seal people like Gremmy, who is far more dangerous than Hags. Plus weaker Bleach characters like BOS Ichigo have broke out of sealing Kido.

That doesn't actually matter? Hagoromo's sealing is just objectively better since he can spam Chibaku's with >>>>> their LS. Breaking out of the most fodder Kido isn't all that.

Which is why Yhwach won't just throw Askin out like that. He's smart enough to plan ahead against Yama, so he would know that Askin would spell doom for them if he used the Deathdealing while they charged in. However, Lille still has his Diagramm which while Hags is occupied, he can hit him with it when he's offguard. There's also Pernida's power mimicry and RE which will allow him to learn Hags' moves and also buff him since we have energy systems equalized.

Hago is EG, Yhwach is only gifted. Hago outsmarts Aizen.

TSO Shield + Sharingan just aimdodges Diagramm

All of these arguments assume Hago doesn't immediately try to close the match with Chibaku Tensei spam like Madara and Sasuke did to seal them, and like Hagoromo did to Kaguya.

It would still crack the shield, and Kirinji disarmed Jugram being somewhat concious about it since Jugram also hinted that the shield was more than it seemed, also because Kinpika was stuck.

No it wouldn't? It wouldn't even attack the shield. Gravity manip doesn't work like that.

Doable, yet not simple. These guys also have resistence neg, infinite attack speed, dura neg, casualty manip,

All get erased and powernulled

not to mention Zanka no Tachi and the 15 million degree EE flames that will vaporize Hagoromo

Never used sadly.

Hagoromo and Blut Vene Anhaben which is corrode him too.

Only if he physically touches him, which would sparsely happen.

They haven't done that because low-tier souls resist the baseline effect of such, so of course the weakest decon doesn't work on them. Hags has no resistance.

That doesn't mean it'd happen to people who don't resist. Again, the manga states they get it from the environment, not opponents.

Matter Manipulation, Deconstruction, Absorption, Damage Boost & Statistics Amplification (Macro-Quantum - Quincy's deconstruct, absorb and manipulate the ambient Reishi that exist around them

They've never used their weapon forming in an offensive manner. It's your burden to prove they would, the fact their enemies resist it doesn't mean they get it from opponents, that doesn't follow and has no backing.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

That doesn't actually matter? Hagoromo's sealing is just objectively better since he can spam Chibaku's with >>>>> their LS. Breaking out of the most fodder Kido isn't all that.

It is when it was done by BOS Ichigo who is vastly weaker than the Elites. Yhwach's sealing is also more potent in terms of who he sealed with it, plus it's not like Yhwach and company are gonna sit there are let him do it.

Hago is EG, Yhwach is only gifted. Hago outsmarts Aizen.

Actual troll comment. Aizen outsmarts the entirety of Naruto. Hell I can argue Mayuri could do it.

Plus Hagoromo has nowhere close to the level of combat experience like Yhwach because unlike his pacifist ass, Yhwach has fought in multiple wars, and has outsmarted the Soul Society, who has far smarter geniuses than Hagoromo.

TSO Shield + Sharingan just aimdodges Diagramm

He's getting jumped so not easy to focus on + Deathdealing + Lille's Vollstandig which will allow him to fire them from his wings + Helig Pfeils + Sankt Bogen + RE + power mimicry + dura neg + you get the point.

All of these arguments assume Hago doesn't immediately try to close the match with Chibaku Tensei spam like Madara and Sasuke did to seal them, and like Hagoromo did to Kaguya.

Again, Yhwach can also dodge the center of gravity with Hirenkyaku.

No it wouldn't? It wouldn't even attack the shield. Gravity manip doesn't work like that.

It still is a fortune.

All get erased and powernulled

Not when they aren't massively weaker than him, especially with Vollstandig.

Never used sadly.

Not out of the equation though. Yhwach has resorted to drastic measures before.

Only if he physically touches him, which would sparsely happen.

Hirenkyaku can close that distance, so he's gonna encounter him one way or another in CQC, and I think it would be fair to say Hags is getting destroyed due to the experience and aggression advantage since he has no battle experience fighting opponents on Yhwach's level.

That doesn't mean it'd happen to people who don't resist. Again, the manga states they get it from the environment, not opponents.

They've never used their weapon forming in an offensive manner. It's your burden to prove they would, the fact their enemies resist it doesn't mean they get it from opponents, that doesn't follow and has no backing.

I edited the comment to include the fact that they still have Vollstandig, which does.

 

[Aernasilver]

How is anyone arguing for Hags when he has 0 on-screen battles.

Sure he has all of these powers but what does he even do with them?

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

How is anyone arguing for Hags when he has 0 on-screen battles.

Sure he has all of these powers but what does he even do with them?

He had one fight, which even then still doesn't give us a lot of context to his battle strategy against an opponent who has far more showings.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Yhwach wins.

Better hax overall and faster too.

 

[Robo432343]

arc the only one who can main yhwach

 

[Adam1396]

All I can see is yhwach didn’t, doesn't use this, that while he legitimately can do this due to his innate nature.

While almost hagorom has listed abilities he never displayed but we somehow assume he did these??

Yhwach one shots. Zanka no tachi is overkill.
Also can hag even resist soul crush, deconstruction, absorption?

Yhwach summons sternritters who proceeds to solo the verse.

Yhwach absolutely one shots. He scales above bankai yamamoto and gremmy.

Edit: I forgot gremmy is just 5C here, not on tier 3. Doesn’t really change anything I said.

 

[AppleLord]

Chibaku Tensei is a gravity seal. Yhwach can manipulate the electrons in the atmosphere to control gravity. He will break out of it. Not to add that characters like Chad, Renji, and Rukia got affected by higher than Earth gravity and Yhwach went to the same place and was waltzing in like he own the place. A few rocks he can blast away with arrows.

 

[Arcker123]

It is when it was done by BOS Ichigo who is vastly weaker than the Elites. Yhwach's sealing is also more potent in terms of who he sealed with it, plus it's not like Yhwach and company are gonna sit there are let him do it.

You can't even show how it's combat applicable and hago resists it anyway

Actual troll comment. Aizen outsmarts the entirety of Naruto.

No shit. You're talking to the biggest aizen stooge on this site.

Plus Hagoromo has nowhere close to the level of combat experience like Yhwach because unlike his pacifist ass, Yhwach has fought in multiple wars, and has outsmarted the Soul Society, who has far smarter geniuses than Hagoromo.

EG > G

More letters ftw baby

(You're right on this point I'm just trolling. Yhwach does have better combat strategy feats and could easily get Genius if not EG)

He's getting jumped so not easy to focus on + Deathdealing + Lille's Vollstandig which will allow him to fire them from his wings + Helig Pfeils + Sankt Bogen + RE + power mimicry + dura neg + you get the point.

Here's an interesting hypothetical, we know Tobirama (who has no Senjutsu) could use FTG on a TSO. Could Askin do the same but instead make it poisonous to Hagoromo?

Again, Yhwach can also dodge the center of gravity with Hirenkyaku.

He's getting pulled in by a massive gravity sphere, he can't run since the LS gap is so high.

Hirenkyaku can close that distance, so he's gonna encounter him one way or another in CQC, and I think it would be fair to say Hags is getting destroyed due to the experience and aggression advantage since he has no battle experience fighting opponents on Yhwach's level.

Kaguya? I get that she's mainly a dumb brute but he has fought people on his level physically and who are aggressive.

Yhwach's definitely more tactical though. Centuries of waging non stop war just to make sure you don't become a sensory deprived baby does that to you.

How is anyone arguing for Hags when he has 0 on-screen battles.

Sure he has all of these powers but what does he even do with them?

He's a character on the site who's supposed to be an ability merchant. We can at least gleam somethings about what he'd do in a fight (which is more than some of these "God" characters in fiction that are on here)

He had one fight, which even then still doesn't give us a lot of context to his battle strategy against an opponent who has far more showings.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. It shows that the rinnegan is a core part of his fighting style and the deva path and sealing are his go to's.

All I can see is yhwach didn’t, doesn't use this, that while he legitimately can do this due to his innate nature.

Yeah.... that's how ooc abilities work. He has them, but he hasn't used them in a fight in his series, so why would it be different here?

Yhwach one shots. Zanka no tachi is overkill.
Also can hag even resist soul crush, deconstruction, absorption?

He does since they have no layers.

Zanka no Tachi is one of Yhwach's best wincons and it still hasn't been hatred on that much (along with Sankt Altar).

Chibaku Tensei is a gravity seal. Yhwach can manipulate the electrons in the atmosphere to control gravity. He will break out of it. Not to add that characters like Chad, Renji, and Rukia got affected by higher than Earth gravity and Yhwach went to the same place and was waltzing in like he own the place. A few rocks he can blast away with arrows.

Uh no he can't?

It doesn't matter of other characters took higher gravity, Hagoromos gravity is just >>>>> Yhwach's lifting strength, or his ability to resist pulling force. He gets ragdolled.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

You can't even show how it's combat applicable and hago resists it anyway

Gimme a sec I'll look later, I remember a combat applicable scenario, but I need to scanhunt.

No shit. You're talking to the biggest aizen stooge on this site.

EG > G

More letters ftw baby

(You're right on this point I'm just trolling. Yhwach does have better combat strategy feats and could easily get Genius if not EG)

I knew you were memeing, you made the Aizen section and went for SG Aizen (which is still up for grabs when Cour 3 ends)

Here's an interesting hypothetical, we know Tobirama (who has no Senjutsu) could use FTG on a TSO. Could Askin do the same but instead make it poisonous to Hagoromo?

It's not impossible, Askin's DD f***s with Reiatsu, so Hags' TSOs likely aren't an exception thanks to Resistence Neg. Also as said before, every Sternritter jumping him will make it hard to think especially when Pernida can copy Ninjutsu and probably TSOs, Lille's intangibility and cranking dura neg infinite AS 90s, and, well, yeah you get it. Also they aren't going to immediately charge in because both they and Yhwach aren't dumb to get DD'd.

He's getting pulled in by a massive gravity sphere, he can't run since the LS gap is so high.

Hirenkyaku is a blitz technique that can travel a long ass distance and blitzes people relative to them, since Yhwach's going in CQC, a long range Chibaku isn't doing much.

Kaguya? I get that she's mainly a dumb brute but he has fought people on his level physically and who are aggressive.

Yhwach's definitely more tactical though. Centuries of waging non stop war just to make sure you don't become a sensory deprived baby does that to you.

Kaguya is a hax and AP demon, she has virtually no martial skill, she needed Zetsu to help keep up with Nard and Sauce. As for his other possible opponents, we have no clue on how skilled they were, or how he beat them. Yhwach has fought the likes of Yamamoto and Ichibei in direct combat, who honestly alone are probably beating out most if not all of Naruto in skill (but that's a debate for another day). Yhwach's battle tactics are far better than Hags' because he has far more experience in the art of war.

He's a character on the site who's supposed to be an ability merchant. We can at least gleam somethings about what he'd do in a fight (which is more than some of these "God" characters in fiction that are on here)

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. It shows that the rinnegan is a core part of his fighting style and the deva path and sealing are his go to's.

I mean, it's still relevant, we don't know if half his shit is in character. I personally don't think GJ is because of, you know, it being the reason he sealed Kaguya, that and he also favored Ashura.

Yeah.... that's how ooc abilities work. He has them, but he hasn't used them in a fight in his series, so why would it be different here?

I guess it's fair.

He does since they have no layers.

Zanka no Tachi is one of Yhwach's best wincons and it still hasn't been hatred on that much (along with Sankt Altar).

Yhwach also has an entire tier of AP over Hag's durability, so one sword swing is giving him the Yama/moto treatment.

Uh no he can't?

It doesn't matter of other characters took higher gravity, Hagoromos gravity is just >>>>> Yhwach's lifting strength, or his ability to resist pulling force. He gets ragdolled.

Again, Hirenkyaku perception blitzes and avoids it via closing in on Hags.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Massive stomp in favor of Yhwach especially since he can summon any sternritter he wants. Some who can arguably win themselves.

Hagoromo using IT and any form of Genjutsu is as much of a wincon as Obitio10 tails form using any.

Edit - How does RC still have no layers? Hasn’t this been this a thing for like 2 years? Lol

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I almost forgot he can summon Uryu too

 

[speedster352]

The miracle would just allow Gerard to break out of genjutsu not so sure about sealing it would take a miracle for him to get out(see what I did there).

Askin after taking one attack would become immune to haggoromo and afterwards genjutsu won’t work.

Lillie just snipes and is intangible

Urdu and Jugram are practically the same.

Yhwach just absorbs

Voting yhwach

 

[Arcker123]

I almost forgot he can summon Uryu too

Uryu might just be the best stern support Yhwach has tbh

He can always bail Yhwach out of jams with swapping damage or swapping places.

I'll get to your main post in a min

Massive stomp in favor of Yhwach especially since he can summon any sternritter he wants. Some who can arguably win themselves.

Eh. I disagree with stomp, but I definitely see why Yhwach wins.

I was gonna make a joke about if I should've used Kaguya for simplicity sake but given how she lost to Pernida that'd be worse.

 

[Bernkastelll]

doesn't base yhwach have reiatsu crush..

I don't think Quincys have Soul Crush tho, that's a Shinigami and Hollow thing

 

[Arcker123]

https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Bleach-Color/0632-008.png

Yhwach has soul crush

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I don't think Quincys have Soul Crush tho, that's a Shinigami and Hollow thing

Yhwach and Jugram are the exceptions.

Edit: Got Ninja'd

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Anyways, Yhwach won't need to blitz Hags before crushing him since now Uryu's Antithesis can reverse the event of getting gravity crushed onto Hags. Also if Gerard gets sealed, it would take a miracle for him to get out (if you know what I mean).

Btw Arcker you're missing a few votes for Yhwach

 

[AppleLord]

You can't even show how it's combat applicable and hago resists it anyway

No shit. You're talking to the biggest aizen stooge on this site.

EG > G

More letters ftw baby

(You're right on this point I'm just trolling. Yhwach does have better combat strategy feats and could easily get Genius if not EG)

Here's an interesting hypothetical, we know Tobirama (who has no Senjutsu) could use FTG on a TSO. Could Askin do the same but instead make it poisonous to Hagoromo?

He's getting pulled in by a massive gravity sphere, he can't run since the LS gap is so high.

Kaguya? I get that she's mainly a dumb brute but he has fought people on his level physically and who are aggressive.

Yhwach's definitely more tactical though. Centuries of waging non stop war just to make sure you don't become a sensory deprived baby does that to you.

He's a character on the site who's supposed to be an ability merchant. We can at least gleam somethings about what he'd do in a fight (which is more than some of these "God" characters in fiction that are on here)

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. It shows that the rinnegan is a core part of his fighting style and the deva path and sealing are his go to's.

Yeah.... that's how ooc abilities work. He has them, but he hasn't used them in a fight in his series, so why would it be different here?

He does since they have no layers.

Zanka no Tachi is one of Yhwach's best wincons and it still hasn't been hatred on that much (along with Sankt Altar).

Uh no he can't?

It doesn't matter of other characters took higher gravity, Hagoromos gravity is just >>>>> Yhwach's lifting strength, or his ability to resist pulling force. He gets ragdolled.

Lifting strength =\= gravity manipulation. You can’t compare the 2 at all. You have to proof Hagoromo’s gravity pull is stronger. The Soul King’s palace gravity is denser than that of Soul Society which is a mirror to Earth. Earth-like gravity checked. Renji and Rukia had trouble getting up from the floor the first time they got there and Yhwach just waltz into the palace and through without any signs of getting affected with this denser atmosphere.

Yes, Yhwach can do that through Hax, saying Hagoromo is stronger wasn’t even a debate. It’s in the manga and his profile that Quincy control electrons when it comes to reishi.



High pressure atmospheric density is related to gravity. Gravity pulls air molecules towards a planet, creating atmospheric pressure by the weight of the air above any given point. This causes atmospheric density to be higher at lower altitudes and lower at higher altitudes. On planets with stronger gravity, like gas giants, the atmosphere is more compressed, leading to much higher pressures and densities than on Earth. So, gravity directly affects atmospheric pressure and density.

 

[Arcker123]

Anyways, Yhwach won't need to blitz Hags before crushing him since now Uryu's Antithesis can reverse the event of getting gravity crushed onto Hags. Also if Gerard gets sealed, it would take a miracle for him to get out (if you know what I mean).

Btw Arcker you're missing a few votes for Yhwach

Who am I missing?

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Who am I missing?

Speedster, Adam (I think) and Nerd

 

[Adam1396]

I was saying, you said yhwach didn’t display those abilities which he has due to his nature of existence. And he actually used abilities of absorbed ones.

On the other hand hag is nearly featless. So thi doesn’t really sound good when you have hag on the other side.

 

[Arcker123]

Show the scan of Yhwach using Zanka no Tachi?

 

[Adam1396]

Show the scan of Yhwach using Zanka no Tachi?

Bankai stealing is his ability in the first place. If he is capable of stealing a bankai, he is able to use it too. His child's display is enough.

Show the scans of hagoromo's abilities as listed. I'm sure you won't be able show 50% of those.

 

[Arcker123]

Dodged the question

 

[AppleLord]

Bankai stealing is his ability in the first place. If he is capable of stealing a bankai, he is able to use it too. His child's display is enough.

Show the scans of hagoromo's abilities as listed. I'm sure you won't be able show 50% of those.

Stop talking about Jesus-homo himself if you don’t believe he can, then it is blasphemy.

 

[Deceived3596]

What is bro yapping about.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm torn between incon and Hago. His gravity, sealing, and TK will be pretty difficult for Yhwach to deal with

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I'm torn between incon and Hago. His gravity, sealing, and TK will be pretty difficult for Yhwach to deal with

Uryu's Antithesis is gonna make his gravity less of an issue, and yes he summons elite sternritters in character, which includes Uryu

 

[AppleLord]

I'm torn between incon and Hago. His gravity, sealing, and TK will be pretty difficult for Yhwach to deal with

That was debunked. Scan above show Yhwach’s reishi manipulation hax been able to control the reishi electrons in the atmosphere to change the density of gravity in the atmosphere. Density of the atmosphere is scientifically proven to affect gravity even if it doesn’t directly control gravity. And to top it Hagoromo hasn’t shown gravity force above Earth’s gravity. Yhwach seems to have no problem existing in higher denser gravity than that of Earth. Gravity seal is useless in this match.

 

[Robo432343]

but hags gravity is Low 5-B
yhwachs reishi hax is 5-C

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

but hags gravity is Low 5-B
yhwachs reishi hax is 5-C

Gravity is measured by LS, not AP. Even then, Yhwach has Low 5-B with Blut

 

[Arcker123]

Gravity is measured by LS, not AP. Even then, Yhwach has Low 5-B with Blut

Read his profile.

Lifting strength =\= gravity manipulation. You can’t compare the 2 at all. You have to proof Hagoromo’s gravity pull is stronger. The Soul King’s palace gravity is denser than that of Soul Society which is a mirror to Earth. Earth-like gravity checked. Renji and Rukia had trouble getting up from the floor the first time they got there and Yhwach just waltz into the palace and through without any signs of getting affected with this denser atmosphere.

Yes, Yhwach can do that through Hax, saying Hagoromo is stronger wasn’t even a debate. It’s in the manga and his profile that Quincy control electrons when it comes to reishi.



High pressure atmospheric density is related to gravity. Gravity pulls air molecules towards a planet, creating atmospheric pressure by the weight of the air above any given point. This causes atmospheric density to be higher at lower altitudes and lower at higher altitudes. On planets with stronger gravity, like gas giants, the atmosphere is more compressed, leading to much higher pressures and densities than on Earth. So, gravity directly affects atmospheric pressure and density.

This may be one of the worst things I've heard.

Lifting strength is what's required to resistance Gravity. That's how pulling forces work.

Just because Gravity affects air pressure doesn't mean it could be affected by matter manipulation.

 

[Naeblis495]

Yhwach summon his pokemons and watch them absolutely cook hago.

Antithesis , Miracle, Balance and Deathdealing GG.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Read his profile.

The AP is, the weight isn't

 

[Arcker123]

The AP is, the weight isn't

No shit