Kaguya Houraisan vs Yhwach

[Andykhang]

The one that alter vs the one that's unchanged. Personality considered, speed equalize, both at their strongest, win when defeated or incapacitated.

Who would win?

Round 1: Yhwach don't use Almighty, Kaguya don't use her manipulation.

Round 2: Both of them use it as the same time.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Yhwach is banned. Close Thread.

 

[Andykhang]

The ban is lifted for awhile now. Read the thread.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not so sure how Yhwach works...

..But from what I heard, he can't change future if he is blitzed..?

I that case, I just except her to Stop him forever before he can't do much. Don't quote me on that though.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Be stuck in eternity Yhwach.

Bright side there's other Touhou characters in a fight now.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Even if she's faster, her attacks won't harm him. That's NLF. Spite thread.

 

[Promestein]

Those aren't her attacks, it's time hax.

Yhwach probably gets blitzed and Stopped. Eternal unchanging stasis.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

We all here know that she's lazy, and blitzing doesn't happen at the start of a fight unless is bloodlusted. The Op didn't mention what Yhwach is this so I assume is non-almighty to make it fair in strenght. If we go by Almighty, he will know he will lose and approach her in away that favors him, his very intelligent and he has shown to be able to use the almighty even after he's dead.

So, if Kaguya can negate his power before he activates it, which she can, then she wins.

If not this will become a 'Inconclusive Match. 'Since Yhwach can stil revive himself, or plan a trap in the future and absorb her.

Remember Quicksilver vs Apocalypse? If you saw the movie.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@All: Uhhhhhhhh........did either one of you even read the whole OP details here? The OP said "speed equalize" so........

 

[FateAlbane]

With speed equalized, can Yhwach make Kaguya's ability fail before it even happens, like he did with Tensa Zangetsu and Orihime's power?

That's the most important question here, in my opinion.

Because at his strongest, his power pretty much works in advance. You try to do something, he already warped that. Even if Kaguya's power works in an instant, that won't matter much if Yhwach changes the future in which she would use it against him and prevents it from working.

 

[FateAlbane]

Remember how as soon as Ichigo pulled Tensa Zangetsu, the sword appeared already broken? If Yhwach can do that against Kaguya, my vote goes for him. If not, then it goes for Kaguya.

 

[Cropfist]

Stomp thread. Yhwach one shots.

 

[FateAlbane]

Speed is equalized, bruh.

EDIT: Though I gotta hand it to you that I seriously doubt Kaguya can get around the almighty when they have equal speed. Hmmm...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

There isn't anything Yhwach can do to her tho IIRC. Low Godly isn't exactly something he has a counter for.

 

[Cropfist]

edited

 

[FateAlbane]

There isn't anything Yhwach can do to her tho IIRC. Low Godly isn't exactly something he has a counter for.

Whut? There are a ton of things Yhwach can do to her. Kaguya's regen doesn't work in such a way that she keeps fighting forever, despite being Low-Godly. If she can't get around the almighty, she will either keep regenerating and taking his hits to the face until she can't stand the pain anymore and gets incapacitated (which is pretty much how she and Mokou end their fights usually) or even worse, she gets absorbed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Does getting absorbed includes the Soul? Absorbing her physical body won't do much...

 

[FateAlbane]

Well, he did absorb Mimihagi and the Soul King...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

They don't look like Soul-based beings from their profiles if I'm not wrong.

 

[KillitwithC4]

Yhwach should win with his future manipulation and precognition.

 

[FateAlbane]

"Shinigami are unearthly beings living in a world ruled by a different logic than the World of the Living. They possess high Reiryoku and a body of Reishi. They are invisible to those without spiritual powers. When souls with exceptional spiritual energy train their bodies, they reach the level of Shinigami."

"Soul Society (Õ░©Ú¡éþòî (Òé¢ÒéªÒâ½Òâ╗Òé¢ÒéÁÒé¿ÒâåÒéú), Souru Sosaeti; Japanese for "Dead Spirit World") is an afterlife (also called the spirit world). This is also where Shinigami live and where most Souls dwell until they are reincarnated into the Human World."

"The Soul King's sole purpose is to regulate the flow of souls into and out of Soul Society and keep the flow stable. Without the Soul King, the balance is lost and everything that is linked to Soul Society or made in it, as well as the Dangai, Hueco Mundo and the Human World will fall apart. According to a conversation between Kisuke Urahara and Sōsuke Aizen the Soul King is detailed as both a "thing" and "it". Urahara details that without the Soul King's existence, Soul Society would be rent asunder."

/\ I'm fairly sure this is enough evidence that absorbing the Soul King entirely would include absorbing the soul.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Not really. People powered by their Souls and who manipulate Soulsé But I don't really see anything that would hint that Yhwach would need to absorb their Soul to absorb them.

 

[FateAlbane]

He literally absorbed the Soul King entirely and stated to be able to consume beings higher than himself, coupled with Soul Manipulation, Reishi absorption and stuff. Why would absorbing the being who rules the world of Souls and actually is called the Soul King not include absorbing the soul? Most Bleach powers have everything to do with souls. It sounds much more unlikely that Yhwach would absorb the "physical" body of a spiritual being who lives in a special realm (which is in turn part of a world inhabited by other spiritual/soul related beings, and entirely different than our own).

 

[FateAlbane]

• Correction: "Would absorb just the physical body."

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's not really a matter of Soul Power but more about the Soul itself. Has anyone shown being able to survive with only their Soul? Is it the kind of verse that Death = Soul dies or something similar?

Also Kaguya's Soul isn't really a normal soul. Not only is it "immortal", but she can easily change its shape and moves it at will.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

There's a special method that protects the soul with the Hourai Elixir wasn't it?

But doesn't Yhwach have to get close in order to do that absorption? The basic style of fighting in Touhou is keep away. Kaguya should be able to play keep away.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

They don't look like Soul-based beings from their profiles if I'm not wrong.

Soul Socitey is the WORLD of souls. You have to be one to even enter or exist in it. Urahara's uses a machine to convert Ichigo's friends bodies into souls. -.-

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Hokage don't act pissy at me, I said that I didn't know how it worked and based myself solely on the profiles. But as Bob said Kaguya usually has protection against such things.

 

[FateAlbane]

It's not really a matter of Soul Power but more about the Soul itself. Has anyone shown being able to survive with only their Soul? Is it the kind of verse that Death = Soul dies or something similar?
Also Kaguya's Soul isn't really a normal soul. Not only is it "immortal", but she can easily change its shape and moves it at will.

If everything that was said and referenced up till now still didn't convince you of the reasons why absorbing the Soul King should count, I'm relatively sure nothing I say will by now. XD

Like I mentioned in the Kaguya vs Schreiber thread...Straight from Imperishable Night against Mokou (same type of Immortality, Hourai Elixir).

"Marisa: "Shall we do it again? Maybe you really are invincible." Alice: "Invincible, maybe, but she seems worn out."

Mokou: "I've already reached my limit. I'd better stop before I'm unable to move tomorrow."

Alice: "Don't waste time wondering about something like that (on the topic of cutting Mokou in half to see which side would remain). Immortality is like casting away the physical body. Only the soul becomes invincible, it's constantly reborn in new flesh. Souls don't have a particular size, so they can freely create another body. By contrast, I guess that any body without a soul perishes rather quickly...?"

Yhwach doesn't need to kill Kaguya. He just needs to either hit her enough times for her to be incapacitated because of all the accumulated pain, or absorb her. Yes, he needs to be close to absorb her, but he can rewrite the future as he desires in order to get his chance.

There's even a moment in his confrontation with Ichigo where he tries to stay away but suddenly Yhwach is right next to him.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Like I said Kaguya's soul should be resistent to attack or Manipulation.

Also for Almighty, wouldn't he need to activate it first? Seems like a case of who will activate one's power first to me with speed equalized.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

From what's said on Yhwach's page, he can choose to have it on or off so...yeah there's that.

 

[FateAlbane]

Well, OP rules said both are at their strongest. If it wasn't for that, I'd be assuming Yhwach does not start with Almighty on and then Kaguya would win this with relative ease, just by eternally stopping him.

Hence why I'm saying if Yhwach can stop Kaguya's power before it even happens (which is usually what he does in character, especially when he sees something coming in the future that might screw him up), he should take it.

Kaguya's soul should be resistant... But not outright immune to damage and, more important, absorption. The main problem for her would be that she can get incapacitated. Also, Yhwach tends to strip people of their powers as he absorbs them, making the powers his own.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's an attack, not a form tho. OP should specify if he starts with Almighty or not. For example saying Reimu starts at her strongest doesn't mean she starts with FN.

 

[SilverRain]

The OP stated that they start at their strongest. So we are assuming Yhwach starts with the Soul King absorbed and with The Almighty active. I'll admit that I don't know Kaguya, so I'll refrain from commenting on the battle right now. But I don't think Yhwach having to activate the Almighty is an issue, since he would start with it already in use~

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

^ No we don't. It's an technique that must be activated. It's not like a super form that adds stats or anything.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

What Saikou said really. When the OP says strongest, it normally refers to their form. Not other things like their abilities which as Saikou pointed out doesn't apply to their stats.

Then again, the OP never specified if Almighty is on or not. For me, i presume Yhwach is at his strongest but doesn't have it on. Same thing with Kaguya here.

 

[SilverRain]

^ No we don't. It's an technique that must be activated. It's not like a super form that adds stats or anything.

Actually, it was stated in series that when the Almighty is active, Yhwach is at his full power. But this, I'll accept that he does not start with it in use if people don't agree with that.

 

[FateAlbane]

The thing is, Yhwach with Soul King absorbed is, by default, with Almighty activated as long as he's not sleeping. The only time he ever deactivated the skill on purpose, was when he met Ichigo in his throne - having just awakened - before their final battle because, in their own words...

Yhwach: Now, how will you greet me? Will you say hello from the right? Or the left? I'm anxious to see what you're capable of.

Ichigo: What are you babbling about? You can see it, can't you? Exactly how, when and where I'm goint to try to attack you.

Yhwach: I am not using my power. For such a long awaited meeting between father and son, I'd be remiss not to savor every juicy moment...

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Mmmmm......

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well it's still a skill and not a form. "I am not using my power" kinda implies it's something he do, not something natural.

Although I would rather wait for OP's words on this.