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...I'll take a shot in the dark and say they tried to argue for Irrelevant speed, or whatever it is, too.
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JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Discussion Thread IV: Diamond is Unbreakable
- Thread starter Cloozuma
- Start date
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We dont even have that here. Infinite and Imm, but not whatever that is..
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I thought you had it on the wiki before...nevermind. Okay, did they try and argue for FULL-ON HDE when time is skipped?
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Iirc yeah.
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...
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Typing in various keywords like Diavolo 5D among others shows quite a few actually, one as old as 2018, our standards likely changed so who knows.
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So, the entire thing that begins the Low 1-C upgrade is King Crimson... I'm kidding, I'm pretty sure I'll start off with statements from characters across the series about how Fate is absolute and how Gravity is tied to Fate and is even used in place of Fate a few times. Gravity pushes and pulls people away, but a key part of the series is gravity pulling stand users together... This will build a sturdy surface I can start working off of with the stands themselves, connecting key points together that prove other points in tandem with said points.
That didn't make much sense, did it?
That didn't make much sense, did it?
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What I mean is, with this cosmology upgrade. Certain points prove others between stands, and other points don't make sense if an updated CRT isn't made for those stands...
Trust me... this is a lot to go through...
Trust me... this is a lot to go through...
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Fate is a bit fucky, some stands can manipulate it, but yeah for the most part, fate is the big overarching **** you jojo runs by. Very few are exempt or can modify it.
I have some fate scans saved ig, ill dump them when im off.
Though King Crimson avoiding fate is more just via technicality if that's what you're getting at, youd be better off using ******* Cinderella of all things if that's what youre trying to pull.
I have some fate scans saved ig, ill dump them when im off.
Though King Crimson avoiding fate is more just via technicality if that's what you're getting at, youd be better off using ******* Cinderella of all things if that's what youre trying to pull.
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You know, going into his...own bullet holes...
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Of course. It's Jojo, gotta get in a lil bit of homoeroticism each part, know what i'm saying?
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He uses his finger to go into his holes.
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Also, Diavolo just...has a resistance to Fate manipulation within Time Erase... That's honestly it. That's why objects he moves/would've moved while in Erased time take the actions they would've taken anyway if time hadn't been erased while ONLY HE is exempt. Like Valentine almost with him being resistant to the "more than one of the same person in one universe" rule of SBR's universe, although given Eyes of Heaven and how HA DIO died... The rule might actually cover the whole cosmology, just like Calamity.
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NOT WONDER OF YOU THO, THAT MAN IS NOT MULTIVERSAL! Just unmanipulated calamity...
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I know it's not canon... It just helps somewhat support future CRTs I plan to make, none of which relate to the Low 1-C upgrade, but still...
Liiiiiiiiiiikkkkkkkkkeeeeee, GER's one needed requirement to activate RTZ's automatic nature. Trust me when I say, it's so PERFECT for what the series represents! Simple, straight to the point, and perfectly befitting of the stand that surpasses all others...but this is a topic for the future. It has a basis in the actual series with Diavolo and GER's short clash, but Eyes of Heaven just puts the cherry on top.
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To give you a hint of what that requirement might be, I'm thinking of titling the CRT.
Can't touch this, GER's one requirement to bring all to zero
Can't touch this, GER's one requirement to bring all to zero
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Damn, I might've just spoiled it...
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I mean, cool, but you can't use EOH to affect canon. It could be a perfect representation, but it doesn't mean it's canon. EOH differs here and there anyway, it isn't exactly the most foolproof representation of canon.
You can use canon for EOH CRT's, but you can't use EOH for canon. It's a oneway street
We've already had 5D GER CRT's due to negging Time Skip bro....
If ya want a Low 1-C cosmology, ya likely could get it accepted, there's definitely some sauce to it, but anyone scaling is sus as ****....oh well we'll see ig.
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Also we already accept RTZ as semi-auto, ya dont need to be sus for that.
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What? Trust me, I'm not trying to go there...
Thanks, and we shall see.
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I know, it's just that explaining how RTZ activates helps ensure the accuracy of VSBattle matches. Oh, what the hell, I'll explain it here. No need to be all secretive about this minor thing I suppose since I've basically given it away.
It's physical contact with GER. Whether that be through someone touching it or it touching someone else. With Diavolo, it happened when King Crimson bore a hole through GE's face, directly coming in contact with GER. From there, it was all over for the Crimson King. GER could now do whatever it wanted knowing that Diavolo was ****** 7 ways to Sunday. Here's WHY it's so perfect. In Jojo, what's the main way of attacking an enemy? Punching and physical contact, right? So, what happens when you have a stand you can't ever touch, less you get reverted to zero? In essence, to beat GER, you can't beat GER and that's the paradoxical stuff I feel fits perfectly in line for a stand that stands above the rest.
Also, in that Eyes of Heaven cutscene I was talking about. When Giorno runs in front of Johnny to stop him from getting erased from existence, he clashes with The World Over Heaven. Then, Giorno says "You'll never reach reality!", and the camera pans down... We see that GER's FIST, and only its fist, is getting overwritten, and then GER pulls back to then look at said fist, probably wondering why RTZ hasn't already activated.
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And that ain't gonna cut it. We explicitly know canon GER doesn't need contact, EOH isnt support, by that same logic you could use JJ to say he doesn't, what matters, is what we see in canon or told in secondary sources.
What EOH does to ya is wild man
Also, King Crimson very explicitly didn't touch GER when he caved in the shell, we're told GER avoided it....
The way it actually works is even more broken so idk why this matters
What EOH does to ya is wild man
Also, King Crimson very explicitly didn't touch GER when he caved in the shell, we're told GER avoided it....
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Explicitly? I feel as if the statements told to us from canon and secondary sources DO back up my theory.
"When attacked by an enemy, Golden Wind Requiem zeroes out their actions and their strength of will."
I actually believe this is an updated scan compared to the one we currently have listed.
EOH is just slightly supplementary, and despite its non-canon status. It was supervised by Araki himself...so... I mean....What EOH does to ya is wild man
I'm talking about when GER was struck by Diavolo when Giorno's heart was quite literally ruptured by the arrow's mini explosion in his hand...
Because it's logical and I feel that it's a requirement befitting of a god-tier stand in a verse when almost every attack is physical.
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Besides, it's still THE MOST broken ability in the canon series BY FAR. Calamity can eat its heart out... Adding a simple requirement to use it doesn't make it any less broken. GER's still WILDLY faster than any stand in the verse. so lightly touching somebody to activate RTZ isn't a problem in the slightest.
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Most things are my dude. He's just very lenient, look up the 2013 CDDH interview for an example.
He didnt make contact? He broke the shell? Saw him, and then went oh shit wtf.
Theory? That's the issue, why the hell are you making up a theory? We have statements, we have feats, why extrapolate a theory when that theory is contradicted numerous times?
That doesn't say contact? In fact, all it's saying is if a mf attacks, they get RTZ'd, you're adding the "contact" part there, doesnt need to be contact, they just gotta do it in general. Which should be self-evident given RTZ kicked in, automatically, before King Crimson's punch landed, in the only scene we see it actually kick in for defense. Add sup stuff to that and....
Literally 99% of attacks arent physical? This also falls completely flat when you remember GER can RTZ things and dudes he has never made contact with prior. The four statements saying RTZ can null any ability, and hell, if ya wanna bring in noncanon, the fact GER has RTZ'd dudes by just looking at them funny, or even abstract stuff like negating his own death.
"I feel", is never a good argument.
Yeah he is, but you're just kinda wrong here? You'd only have a point if literally every time RTZ was used, was following direct contact, which is straight up wrong. Like, this isnt even a "well it could be true", it straight up isnt, we know he can use RTZ on stuff without touching it, and we know when it kicks in for self-defense.
We dont accept "theories" lad.
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All Star Battle nor its remake was supervised by Araki...
No, no. I'm certain he made contact. IF GER wasn't there inside of GE's skin, DIAVOLO WOULD'VE ACTUALLY BORE A HOLE THROUGH GIORNO'S ******* SKULL AND SPLATTERED HIS BRAIN MATTER ACROSS THE GROUND. HE EVEN SAYS SO HIMSELF! While GER didn't take a chip of damage, the important thing is that HE. STILL. TOUCHED. HIM. Didn't damage him, but still touched him nevertheless. Basically, no GER to be a technical brick wall to Diavolo's fist, Giorno dies . That's it, end of Vento Aureo.
Because it's based in what we see... I'm far from just pulling this out of my ass... The thing is, RTZ has activated ONCE in canon, you act as if we've seen it a 1000 times like Time Stop... Also, contradicted numerous times is a reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaacccccccchhhhhh of massive proportions.
Yes, IF somebody attacks GER. They'll be reset... RTZ kicked in automatically, sure, but that's not what I have a problem with. HELL, I don't have any type of problem with RTZ. IT'S JUST THAT TRYING TO BE AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE MATTERS!
You know what I'm talking about... Please don't try and play the semantics game with me... Physically attacking with your STAND, no abilities.
Err, maybe I'm forgetting something. When did this happen in canon? Oh, you're talking about RTZ reverting EVERYTHING AFTER its activation... Really? This isn't my argument and you know it... Again, stop trying to pull the semantic card, it's getting old, quick...
I'm NOT SAYING IT CAN'T. I'M JUST TRYING TO GIVE CONTEXT TO WHAT HAPPENED.
Sure, but when that argument is backed up by visual aid and statements, it becomes a soild one.
It was used once at the end of the part, **** are you yapping about with this "every-time" shit? You from an alternate universe.
AFTER IT ACTIVATES, RTZ WILL RETURN EVERYTHING TO ZERO. THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING AROUND GER. For the love of god, semantics, semantics, semantics.
Err, don't call me that. I don't know how old you are, but it just sounds weird... I'm also a grown-ass man, so.... Yeah....
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Anyway, as long as I don't use EOH for actual feats WHICH I'M NOT. I actually wonder if I can use it as supporting evidence in my CRT, barring whatever Chariot's yapping about... The story portion of the game was supervised by Araki after all, so as long as I emphasize my argument with canon, I should be fine... In fact, I think I'll ask the larger community in the question and answers section. If they say no, fine... If they say yes, then great!
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Didnt say ASB?
And im certain youre wrong, not good enough.
You dont think maybe it's because he caved it's shell in, and there's a secret spooky dude looking at him from within and js like "bruh wtf. Why are you assuming he meant "oh i wouldve punched his head clean off", instead of "oh i blew his skull open, oh shit theres a dude in there", doing what we see would still lead to Gio's head being strewn about.
Also, that's why RTZ kicked in and returned Diavolo to zero when that punch landed like we're told time and time again is what happens? Pretty weird argument to make when saying RTZ activates automatically if punched, yet magically didnt activate here despite you saying his punch made contact? And dont try and pull GER has to decide, as when we see it kick in within time skip, GER aint even cognizant, atop said punch not landing in that instance, two damning pieces of evidence against your theory.
Or maybe he punched, broke the shell, and that was it? Like we're shown and told?
No? It's been used 4 times?
The automatic kick in part though for self defense? Once yeah (on screen, dont forget 99% of GER lore comes from guides), and that SINGLE instance, was without contact.
I would say like 8 times is a lot when youre just making a theory.
Then why are you trying to add a caveat that is never said, contradicted, and demonstrably false?
Unfortunate then, because we know it works against Stand abilities should they harm him.
Pretty huge flaw in your theory there
Yeah, and then sometimes it doesnt.
You realize what RTZ, well, RTZs can be picked right? It isnt even just attacks it can work on.
Can it affect everything? Yes. Can it affect only one thing at a time? Also yes.
Some examples would be, well, below, RTZ'ing Diavolo's death (a single target action), or healing Giorno (the giant gash in his head was RTZ bullshit fyi).
Other examples would be permanently power nulling King Crimson and making it unsummonable, or the infamous "Time Acceleration wouldnt work on GER".
Semantics? That isnt semantics it's "hey your theory makes absolutely no sense because if what you say is true it wouldnt do shit like affect Mista, Trish, and so on".
Because he touched Mista? Or he can touch Cream?
Or he can touch the nonphysical things like death? Or this, or that? Or the numerous statements or the...
Your context isnt consistent with itself.
You realize the only time it activated automatically, King Crimson's fist didnt touch him right?
And we're also told he would never make contact with him even if it was fated to happen in Vel.... Which like, need i explain?
No, I just happen to be aware of when RTZ was used? And am aware of the supplementary material?
It isnt much, but 4 times throughout 3 chapters, is still multiple times.
I mean, surely you're aware that the death loop isnt sone special ability and is simply the act of Diavolo dying being set to zero. That's two blatantly obvious usages anyone can pick up on, not sure what you mean by "once".
Oh damn, I cant believe every time Diavolo dies they all reset too....
Or when GER nullified Gio's wounds they all reset...
Or when GER hard confirmed nullified Diavolo's usage of his powers indefinitely...
You see the issue? From just the manga alone we know your "theory" doesnt hold up.
Cherry picking, either it's canon, or it's not. Actual wiki rules dude, you don't just to get pick what you like from noncanon shit and run with it while ignoring the numerous blatant inconsistencies the game also has, and just assume the thing that supports you, somehow, is the single "accurate" piece of info.
The worst part is EOH thinks your theory aint it either, as RTZ can specifically affect only one thing at a time, so saying RTZ affects everything around Gio after contact is just asinine, EOH doesnt even support your total argument.
Also "supervised", doesnt mean written, most noncanon stuff is supervised by him, he just lets them do whatever because he thinks limiting them or interjecting limits creativity.
As said, check out the Kouhei article.
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I could refute everything you just said by simply re-explaining my argument, but...I'm not gonna keep arguing with somebody whose vote doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It's useless to burn steam trying to talk about future CRTs with you, you aren't even a mod... Still, you do have a way of swaying people over. God, why couldn't you have been into some other fandom like Naruto...
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LIKE COME ON! Why are you defensive about EVERYTHING I bring up except the Low 1-C shit! What specifically about it has merit?
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It seems you only approve of things you find interesting, not what is actual factual... That's just me though.
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I'm done, I tried to come back after I made this new account from my old one, Wavingthroughawindow, which I deleted the Gmail off. Which means, yes, this is a sock puppet account by the wiki's own rules I suppose. I don't care though, I thought I could come back after that embarrassment but I can't. Chariot's...just too good, and I guess I can't compare. That's why I'm leaving this wiki, for good this time. I leave the beginnings of a Low 1-C Jojo verse in the hands of everyone if ya'll would like to expand on it... Anyway, this is my last post, for real this time, and I can finally conclude... Powerscalings just not for me... I should've learned after my first two CRT's got rejected, but I'm stubborn like that I guess. With all that being said, since this is a sockpuppet account. I suppose the mods should ban this one since I broke a wiki rule in all, so that's that. Ultimately, I thank god all of this is over the internet and none of ya'll know me in real life. See ya.
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No, you really couldnt. Repeating yourself isnt going to make your argument any better, fact of that matter, as it stands, is that youre effectively just making shit up that isnt even consistent with your own "theory".
How about this, one statement that says what youre claiming, no "well it could mean-", an actual, explicit, concrete statement that says if someone physically makes contact with GER, they will be RTZ'd, and that's the trigger, because if it was a thing, they would SAY it at least somewhere, even if it's just some pamphlet or something. Note, not "oh if Ger hits-", or "oh if theyre killed by-" (because this one actually exists, he cant death loop without a death to set to zero, we're told in vel that his pummel against Diavolo was his first death that was set to 0), arent what im asking for.
It just doesnt scale or affect anything, but a cosmology upgrade just for the sake of it? It has some foundation to it.
I would like to be both fair, with the least amount of guesswork possible, preferably multiple examples, and in this case, both are accounted for. This applies to everything mind youeven Baken's glazing of Plat, let me cook ffs, i have 4 feats to calc, let me finish the last two....
Also unless your old account was banned, youre allowed to make a new one, the old one just has to be deactivated. As long as you dont make a new one to circumvent rules or bans it's ok, but only one is allowed at a time.
How about this, one statement that says what youre claiming, no "well it could mean-", an actual, explicit, concrete statement that says if someone physically makes contact with GER, they will be RTZ'd, and that's the trigger, because if it was a thing, they would SAY it at least somewhere, even if it's just some pamphlet or something. Note, not "oh if Ger hits-", or "oh if theyre killed by-" (because this one actually exists, he cant death loop without a death to set to zero, we're told in vel that his pummel against Diavolo was his first death that was set to 0), arent what im asking for.
Because low 1-C has a few solid examples towards it, such as Jojo having geometric dimensions, and a infinite multiverse (each dimension exists side by side in a line at that) being embedded in a larger space, with said space even being reachable by like 4 Stands.
It just doesnt scale or affect anything, but a cosmology upgrade just for the sake of it? It has some foundation to it.
Uh huh. Factual, your "theory", i.e, your extrapolation never once stated anywhere, demonstrably false, and outright shot down by statements, is factual? No offense but I strongly disagree.
I would like to be both fair, with the least amount of guesswork possible, preferably multiple examples, and in this case, both are accounted for. This applies to everything mind you
Bro people are gonna disagree with ya, you brought up something that also might actually have value, take what you can get
