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Part 8's guilty of the same issue, but if I covered it too. Then the CRT would get far too long, I'll just split it up into two parts. It's an easy solution.
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JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Discussion Thread IV: Diamond is Unbreakable
- Thread starter Cloozuma
- Start date
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wait for Chariot's part 7 revisions
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How far is he along? With a couple of calcs in hand, I could probably get something posted by the weekend's end. Although, that's probably being optimistic on the turnaround time on calc acceptations by someone who's verified.
Baken384
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Class G first before part 7 mid
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HEY, Part 7 is gas... Still not my favorite part tho... Can you guess by my profile pic?
Baken384
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Giorno! But in all seriousness i think the goal atm is finishing some Lifting strength Revision before anything else.
The Platinum Techniques needs their buff..
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Wouldn't the Class G revisions only apply to Star Platinum, The World, King Crimson for his statement and dogging of SC, and GER given he's stated to have the strongest AP of all stands existing in Part 5 which would include SP? Part 7 has NO business being anywhere CLOSE to Class G or MFTL for that matter, so just focusing on speed shouldn't be too much of a problem for me. The best strength feat for Tusk Act 4 is that crater feat and I believe that's only Building level to Building level+ BARELY when you take Pulverization. into account.
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Wait, is Class G even vaild...?
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I'm looking through a previous thread made about the topic, and apparently, Class G got rejected for being calculated incorrectly...
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Just be patient, you've already completely jumped the gun in your tangent.
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What? Could you explain where? I simply stated that Class G got rejected once or put on hold, however you want to phrase it.
Baken384
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Daawg plss don't do anything rn i need clsss g done before this. Go wild after Class G happens
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Also, what do you mean "be patient"...? I thought that if you had the calcs on hand, anybody could submit a CRT and have it be accepted? Do we just take tickets and wait on people to do one CRT at a time for JJBA here or...? Besides, I don't care about Class G. I'm planning on something...bigger than a revision to one, single part after this anyway... Way bigger. I'm researching everything now, but it's... difficult.
Baken384
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Why do I have to wait on Class G, especially if what I'm trying to do a CRT for doesn't relate to it at all? That's a genuine question?HOLY SHIT DO YOUR RESEARCH AFTER CLASS G
Baken384
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Because you existing to do shit like this is gonna distract the mf who is feeding me the class g.
JJBA on this site literally has like 2 supporters at this point
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You mean Chariot? I don't need his input on my Part 7 CRT, nor do I particularly want it if he's gonna come at me for simply inquiring about something... If he's helping you with Class G or whatever, that doesn't affect me... I'm perfectly competent at scaling by myself...
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No, for part 7, speed scaling in Part 7 IS dogshit, like you aren't wrong there, our profiles 100% shit and outdated and 99% of them inflated as ****, but you're definitely jumping the gun trying to make everyone transonic when some characters alone are outright stated hypersonic like Act 2, or the fact there's a huge caveat for every Johnny/Gyro feat and anti-feat (That being spin is outright noted to affect their speed, the better the spin, the higher the speed) which you then need to account for, and ten saying only Diego has ****** with bullets, not true,
Here's an example of Gyro moving his arms after one is fired
Here's another of blud and TotB intercepting gunfire at point-blank
As just a couple of random examples
That isn't to say transonic is wrong, but it'd only apply to Tusk Act 1 level dudes (So things like basic spin Gyro, Tusk Act 1, Mountain Tim, etc), anyone Act 2 and up is quite a bit higher, and so on.
LS upgrade is being worked atm though, 5 calcs, done to fit current accommodations. I would say sometime this week?
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Your tangent is kind of a huge red flag given you seem to be ignoring some of the most essential pieces of information you should know before even thinking of touching Part 7
Baken384
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PLS CLASS G
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I haven't even calced anything yet... I was just guessing speeds by eye while looking through Part 7. Also, I never said I'm trying to make everybody Transonic...Your tangent is kind of a huge red flag given you seem to be ignoring some of the most essential pieces of information you should know before even thinking of touching Part 7
As stated...
"God, this whole mini-rant really makes me want to make a CRT, but I don't have any calcs on hand... If I had to ESTIMATE though"
Also...
"That being spin is outright noted to affect their speed, the better the spin, the higher the speed."
I've never heard anything like that... Where does it say the spin can affect the user's physical stats besides Johnny with his own stand? I know Johnny notes his bullets get faster and stronger with every evolution of Tusk, but I've never seen something like that for Gyro...
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Literally you.
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Okay, I admit the "at most" was a little much I suppose... However, I just said "at most" to emphasize the utter foolishness that MFTL SBR is when you get right down to it. Again, I don't have any calcs, I was simply guesstimating...
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Also, I've only read Part 7 once a year ago and skimmed it's end chapters recently for feats, that's it... Excuse my guesses for not completely matching with your own calcs... Can I be allowed to write up some of my own first without you getting "red flags", as you say? I still have to read over SBR again, far closer this time around, and write down anything of notice. Calcs should be easy, it's just pixel scaling that's a little daunting...
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Please don't guesstimate.
I don't mean to be mean or anything, but doing it haphazardly, just causes more work for everyone else, doubly when that shit has already begun being worked on
Like there's Jojo shit that HASN'T been started on we need, but Part 7 speed is easily the most touchy and convoluted subject.
Also some of this ain't even guessing, Soundman, for example, has mach speed attacks, and mach 3 in a liquid, Act 2 is "many times faster" than Act 1 (which actually is transonic, stated to be as fast as a bullet (likely a colt revolver) and has about 12 feats showing it comparable) and is shown (with a good spin, because let's not forget every single feat needs to have how good the spin is factored in) to eclipse said attacks, and so on.
Pixel scaling isn't even the daunting part, it's the trigonometry and angsizing needed for 90% of the calcs.
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That's not my intention, and I'll get the calcs checked by somebody verified to do so before I submit the CRT. Trust me...Please don't guesstimate.
I don't mean to be mean or anything, but doing it haphazardly, just causes more work for everyone else, doubly when that shit has already begun being worked on
Soundman? Mach speed...? Could I see that calc if you have it because I don't think that's right... Sandman doesn't physically move sound itself in a sense, he encases it in a physical word and uses that to attack...
Never mind, I just found the calc you're talking about... Assuming that the PHYSICAL objects Sandman sends out which contain sound move as fast as ACTUAL sound waves is just... While not to the extent of MFTL, it's STILL an outlier among multiple transonic speed feats. 12 comparable feats, you said? I'm not saying ACT 2 ISN'T faster than Act 1, it's just not THAT much faster.
Well, I kinda already figured that...
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We have 6 tiers between Transonic and Massively Hypersonic, and are we supposed to just believe Johnny's stand just jumped that gap with one stand evolution? Especially on a shoddy piece of evidence like that which isn't backed up at all by the way Sandman's stand works and is said to work?
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Literally stated in guide?
You're confusing the manifested objects with the actual signals, which are explicitly noted be as fast as sound (Which, btw, what soundman does is "steal" sounds and contain them, the river feat is especially notable, as the creatures are quite literally, just dumping the sounds in the water, they even echo off the bank walls)
There you go again, you're focused on "transonic", not what is actually there, you're painting yourself in a biased light focusing on that, and yes, for Act 1, the slowest Act. That's also an argument from incredulity "it's just not THAT much faster", why? It has statements, it has feats. Just because you don't think it is, ultimately doesn't mean a thing.
It very well is, because it's stated to be. By the way, the sound in the water is stated mach 3, something the manga even draws allusion to here
Couple that with guide shit outright stating it, or hell, the manga basically saying as such too here in regards to signals
And just like that, you've already shown yourself not trustworthy to tackle this, so wait.
Yes, because not only do we have a statement saying it is "many times faster", it has no less than 4 MHS feats.
"Said to work"
"Is said to move as fast as sound in three different places"
"The water attack specifically is noted to be his fastest attack"
"Manga says it travels better in water, guide clarifies it again"
As I said, wait.
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What did Miles Morales say?
"Nah, I'mma do my own thing?"
But seriously though, before I deconstruct your argument with Sandman because you seem to have misinterpreted something along the way. I'd like to hear these 4 MHS feats, I assume they either come from Johnny interacting with Sandman or somebody interacting with Act 2?
"Nah, I'mma do my own thing?"
But seriously though, before I deconstruct your argument with Sandman because you seem to have misinterpreted something along the way. I'd like to hear these 4 MHS feats, I assume they either come from Johnny interacting with Sandman or somebody interacting with Act 2?
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"The guide state it"
"You misinterpreted"
Uh huh yeah because behaving like sound, being stated to be as fast as sound (aka there's no debate to be had, you're evidently confusing the containers with the actual sound attacks), and even noted to be his quickest attack, while having both the manga and guide state the sound is better in water, with the guide even elaborating further (that is because water is denser, the vibrations move from particle to particle quicker due to that, up to 4x than that of air) is misinterpreting?
so far you've
Exaggerated where they cap by your own admission (This doesnt fly here)
Arent even aware that spin affects speed (something that needs to be factored in at every point, feat and anti-feat alike)
Discrediting actual statements
Hell you even downplayed Diego who has numerous insane feats such as outpacing bullets like a hundred times over, even statuing them at two points.
You have already made it abundantly clear you have an agenda given your abundance of "transonic" focus, you aren't reliable here.
And no only one is from Soundman, others involve outpacing bullets, ******* with explosions, and so on. Count Diego and we're at like 15+, (fyi, Tusk Act 4 and Ball Breaker are noted to be the fastest Stands in the part, they upscale massively off Diego).
But, of course, you'll do it yourself?
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No, don't do that, you aren't Miles. If you have a problem with shit, have common courtesy and wait until Chariot posts speed revisions and try to debate there
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It aint even speed, it's everything, notably complete comprehensive rewrites of Diego, Gyro, Funny, Soundman apparently, Hot Pants, AUDio and slip a Jesus profile in there too because it'd be funny.
Some of the AP and LS feats a tad tricky though, LS especially, they have calculatable feats, but are they legitimate? Are they intentional? Like it's easy to calc Gyro yeeting a Steel Ball and get like Class 50 off it, but is the LS aspect intentional to be considered? There's basic ones like Gyro and Sandman having a vertical leap of over 8m (about 1 ton LS), but what about shit like Diego moving his horse at dbz speeds? If calced that'd be Class 100/K. LS is the main hurdle atm.
Ap has a foundation, but I'd like more before publishing, some a bit hard tho as some feats require timeframes, such as Act 2's small whirlpool RKE (like Dark Blue Moon's feat but small), but obviously part 7 doesnt have a anime atm to get motion for.
Got some basic feats down though, a few 9-B+ feats for Act 1 (such as it slicing the ground and bisecting Boom), 4 casual low 9-A feats (two of these get slapped with a "many times" multiplier, so we're looking at 9-A+ to low 8-C for Act 3 lv dudes, even higher for the top dudes),a 6-A feat for Jesus
The foundation is there so we have the baselines, but i want more done to give it a solid foundation, obviously one calc is cool, but like 5 or whatever is obviously better for both consistency and scaling.
Part 7 was supposed to be after Part 3/Baken glazing CRT tho
Some of the AP and LS feats a tad tricky though, LS especially, they have calculatable feats, but are they legitimate? Are they intentional? Like it's easy to calc Gyro yeeting a Steel Ball and get like Class 50 off it, but is the LS aspect intentional to be considered? There's basic ones like Gyro and Sandman having a vertical leap of over 8m (about 1 ton LS), but what about shit like Diego moving his horse at dbz speeds? If calced that'd be Class 100/K. LS is the main hurdle atm.
Ap has a foundation, but I'd like more before publishing, some a bit hard tho as some feats require timeframes, such as Act 2's small whirlpool RKE (like Dark Blue Moon's feat but small), but obviously part 7 doesnt have a anime atm to get motion for.
Got some basic feats down though, a few 9-B+ feats for Act 1 (such as it slicing the ground and bisecting Boom), 4 casual low 9-A feats (two of these get slapped with a "many times" multiplier, so we're looking at 9-A+ to low 8-C for Act 3 lv dudes, even higher for the top dudes),
The foundation is there so we have the baselines, but i want more done to give it a solid foundation, obviously one calc is cool, but like 5 or whatever is obviously better for both consistency and scaling.
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Where do I begin with...all of what you just said?
I suppose we can start off at Sandman?
Well, I have to admit... When triggered, the signals that cause a word to place its effect IS Mach 1 or the speed of sound while in the air and . However, NOTHING ELSE IS. You seem to be confused, as I said... So, let me help you... When Johnny and Gyro are being actively chased by the sound-infused dinosaurs, he manages to kill one with multiple nail bullets, courtesy of Tusk ACT 1. Johnny didn't expect them to be so vicious though, given that another one behind it pieces up it's remains and throws its remains at Gyro's horse. What happens now? It doesn't IMMEDIATELY attack the horse with the action of a cut or whatever's on the Dino's head, it takes a little bit, and then BAM. Gyro and Johnny both have cuts on their bodies, showing that not only is In a Silent Way's sound manipulation so precise it can target specific individuals without activating on the first thing it interacts with. Gyro and Johnny are up there in speed as shown by their bullet-dodging feats done later on, and because of this, when the signal does activate at Mach 1 speeds. They can react somewhat BEFORE the signal reaches them through the air. THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, but I'm sure you already know this. Finally, though, the scan you laud appears, but the thing is. This is BEFORE the water scene happens, so Johnny must be referring to the dinosaurs. Here it is in full.
"This stand doesn't destroy whatever these dinosaurs touch." (Like an automatic contact bomb.)
"{It (referring to the stand) sends out a signal and it destroys what's at the end of the signal." (Whatever In a Silent Way's targeting.)
It works like a sound. (Confirming that ONLY THE SIGNALS AND NOTHING ELSE SHOWN IN THE WATER LATER ON IS MACH ANYTHING.)
Like how a sound travels. (Exact same reasoning as previously stated point)
It doesn't destroy our horse on impact, It travels through until it reaches our bodies. (Still talking about the SIGNALS ONLY)
The pterodactyl scene with the fire doesn't mean much, only showing that In a silent way is more versatile than just producing CUT.
Now, we ACTUALLY get to the water. The MHS calc relies on the idea that the sounds of the orbs or whatever they are, dumped in the water can't reach Johnny before he can fire a bullet with his newly-gained Act 2. It also realize on the idea that the SOUNDS WHICH CAUSE THE SIGNALS TO EFFECT JOHNNY AND GYRO AREN'T THE SAME THING AS THE SIGNALS THEMSELVES. Your literally conflating the two...
Signals: Mach 1 in air: MHS in water
Things that activate those signals AND Sandman's own physical constructs: NOT Mach 1 OR MHS
But hey, this is only one feat for MHS? You have 14+ in your back pocket, right?
I suppose we can start off at Sandman?
Well, I have to admit... When triggered, the signals that cause a word to place its effect IS Mach 1 or the speed of sound while in the air and . However, NOTHING ELSE IS. You seem to be confused, as I said... So, let me help you... When Johnny and Gyro are being actively chased by the sound-infused dinosaurs, he manages to kill one with multiple nail bullets, courtesy of Tusk ACT 1. Johnny didn't expect them to be so vicious though, given that another one behind it pieces up it's remains and throws its remains at Gyro's horse. What happens now? It doesn't IMMEDIATELY attack the horse with the action of a cut or whatever's on the Dino's head, it takes a little bit, and then BAM. Gyro and Johnny both have cuts on their bodies, showing that not only is In a Silent Way's sound manipulation so precise it can target specific individuals without activating on the first thing it interacts with. Gyro and Johnny are up there in speed as shown by their bullet-dodging feats done later on, and because of this, when the signal does activate at Mach 1 speeds. They can react somewhat BEFORE the signal reaches them through the air. THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, but I'm sure you already know this. Finally, though, the scan you laud appears, but the thing is. This is BEFORE the water scene happens, so Johnny must be referring to the dinosaurs. Here it is in full.
"This stand doesn't destroy whatever these dinosaurs touch." (Like an automatic contact bomb.)
"{It (referring to the stand) sends out a signal and it destroys what's at the end of the signal." (Whatever In a Silent Way's targeting.)
It works like a sound. (Confirming that ONLY THE SIGNALS AND NOTHING ELSE SHOWN IN THE WATER LATER ON IS MACH ANYTHING.)
Like how a sound travels. (Exact same reasoning as previously stated point)
It doesn't destroy our horse on impact, It travels through until it reaches our bodies. (Still talking about the SIGNALS ONLY)
The pterodactyl scene with the fire doesn't mean much, only showing that In a silent way is more versatile than just producing CUT.
Now, we ACTUALLY get to the water. The MHS calc relies on the idea that the sounds of the orbs or whatever they are, dumped in the water can't reach Johnny before he can fire a bullet with his newly-gained Act 2. It also realize on the idea that the SOUNDS WHICH CAUSE THE SIGNALS TO EFFECT JOHNNY AND GYRO AREN'T THE SAME THING AS THE SIGNALS THEMSELVES. Your literally conflating the two...
Signals: Mach 1 in air: MHS in water
Things that activate those signals AND Sandman's own physical constructs: NOT Mach 1 OR MHS
But hey, this is only one feat for MHS? You have 14+ in your back pocket, right?
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You did
YES, IT'S QUICKEST IN WATER BECAUSE THE SIGNALS' SPEED VARIES DEPENDS ON THE MEDIUM THEY TRAVEL THROUGH!
Sure... Go off I guess
I said I wasn't aware that the spin affects the user's OWN speed, not that it doesn't make objects it flows through faster themselves.
Statements which work against you, by the by.
Outpacing bullets is...subsonic. I actually made a quick calc if you'd like to see it. I'll give you the statuing bullets point, but that's two MHS feats.
Funny part is, I DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT DOWNGRADING SBR CHARACTER'S SPEED LIKE THAT. As I SAID, I have bigger fish to fry, but I won't tell, not yet at least...
So, we just gonna ignore how you now say 15+ when you said just 4 a couple of messages back? Damn, you seem to be inflating numbers... Also, Tusk Act 4 upscales off Diego? Is that the reason he was able to react to the stand SUPRISE attacking him in stopped time FROM A BLIND SPOT MIND YOU and move out the way before he touched him?
I will, but hey, I'll concede that you're focusing on much more stuff than I. Since SBR isn't that important to me, you got it.
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Also, before you bring up his stand statement... It's most effective in water for the reasons stated above. don't try to take that too out of context....
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"Nuh uh the dinosaurs arent literal sounds (as noted by Gyro, they just release them) so these actual sounds (they released) arent either"
Bro what? Whole lot of nothing you just said, the sound water, fyi, isnt MHS, it's just supersonic+, Act 2 being like 100x faster than it, is what is MHS.
Yes, you'd be surprised how high "bullet needs to move a few cm and dude does large complex action such as swing his arms, dodging, etc" would get, and then Diego just outright statues them and covers numerous meters before a bullet can move even further like 3 times.
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Oh, so you agree it's a signal, aka sound speed? Good.
It varies, because sound travels quicker in water, due to being a denser medium than air
Thanks for another admission.
Cool, thanks for admitting it.
Also, it's directly proportional.
"As fast as sound!!! Soundman unleashes an attack with the Mississippi river as his stage! The sound is amplified by the water!"
Ok.
Oh joy, more work for everyone.
Yeah 15+ total among the cast?
4 for Act 2?
I seem to be capable of reading
Scary Monsters Diego? Thought that was obvious given we were talking about him?
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Jojolion has
1 supersonic+ feat, 3 hypersonic feats, 1high hyper feat,
And idk ig a subsonic+ feat when urban or rai, forget who, reacted to something shot from a makeshift crossbow.
Jojolion has some decent feats, but the part as a whole is lacking quantity and scaling to other parts, Paisley just kinda salvages it along with two random sup statements. Was thinking of fleshing it out (mostly to make featboxes), but the actual values wouldnt change so it's on the backburner and wont happen for awhile.
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How I love it when animanga use irl physics, woodOh, so you agree it's a signal, aka sound speed? Good.
It varies, because sound travels quicker in water, due to being a denser medium than air
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/32688/060.0/compressed/f016.jpg
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