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Iron Man CRT (Profile Expansion and 5-A Upgrade)
- Thread starter ObberGobb
- Start date
- Status
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First option is:
- Split the profile between classic and modern.
- Calculate and evaluate the feats posted above to use them for both.
- No any 5-A scaling for common armors unless is Endo-Symbiont, Model 51 or any of the busters.
- Also re-structure other stats like Power & Abilities, Speed, Intelligence and Notable Attack/Techniques to fit both profiles.
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- Thread starter
- #123
Why do you not think Extremis, Bleeding Edge, and Model 42 deserve 5-A scaling?
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We still considering doing separate profiles for special armors or nah?
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Because by their own feats (and self-scaling) they are more consistently around tier 7 or 6.
Some of those characters are probably not even 5-A if we were to try pin down their actual display of power. Everyone scaling to that 5-A feat grey Hulk decades ago while being unable of performing something remotly similar on their own all this years has always striked me as wrong.
And honestly, I could try upgrading Spider-Man 5-A by just picking a respect thread from reddit.
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I recall seeing someone (maybe KLOL? memory fails me here) saying there were some issues with the calculation too, but that's been a while.
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This makes sense to me. Thank you for helping out.
Which of the two options do you personally prefer?
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- Thread starter
- #128
But you can easily scale Extremis to 5-A using the same scaling chain used for Model Prime. Extremis is stronger than the Hulkbuster, and Hulkbuster is comparable to Hulk, therefore Extremis is 5-A. And since Bleeding Edge is far stronger than Extremis, Bleeding Edge is at least 5-A as well. It's the same via scaling from Graviton: Iron Man almost killed him, and Graviton defeated Wonder Man and matched Thor. You could also scale via Namor: Extremis defeated an armor that Namor was having trouble with underwater, and Namor has completed against the Hulk several times.
That is 3 solid scaling chains that don't use the Grey Hulk feat, and all point to him being 5-A. The only way it would make sense for him to not be listed as 5-A is if we completely overhauled scaling on Hulk, Namor, The Thing, Doctor Doom, She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Thor, Sentry, and all of the others who use these characters to scale. Based on the current verse scaling on this site, Extremis clearly is 5-A. And since Bleeding Edge is canonically stronger than Extremis, all of this would apply to it too.
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Personally I think that any scaling chain that ends up with Iron Man logically being more powerful than Graviton, Thor & the Hulk is highly suspicions and further proof of that the Marvel writers and editors largely do not care about consistency at all.
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- Thread starter
- #130
He is comparable to those Thor and Hulk when they are holding back. He isn't comparable to them when they are at full strength. That is why the wiki added the 5-A/4-B split, characters like Namor, Iron Man, etc., are only able to fight them when they are holding back their power.
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Graviton once defeated virtually all of the Marvel heroes combined in a Thunderbolts storyline, and he is not the type to hold back. Also, we mostly scale Thor and the Hulk like that to accommodate for that most of the writers usually depict them at far less than their higher power levels, so we do not end up with a scaling nightmare.
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personal opinion should not determine objective fact.
And no, Iron man isn't superior to Thor, we literally made a whole CRT putting Thor at 5-A when holding back specifically to stop Iron Man and comparable tiers from being 4-B. At best from those chains he'd be superior to, what, a casual version of a character? Something which is incredibly consistent across his issues?
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Okay? So then remove the 5-A durability from all of their keys and just count it as outliers. We should at least try to be consistent if marvel isn't.
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It is impossible to give these characters consistent tiers without creating a massive scaling mess. When Marvel writers even bother to acknowledge this, they state that it is due to holding back, or rage power, so that is what we have to go with in lack of better options.
Anyway, my mind is currently overexerted and tired due to extreme overwork, so I have turned testy, impatient, and do not have the time and energy available to continue to argue with you.
Newendigo seems to genuinely understand what he is talking about, so we should either go with his solution or close this thread.
Anyway, my mind is currently overexerted and tired due to extreme overwork, so I have turned testy, impatient, and do not have the time and energy available to continue to argue with you.
Newendigo seems to genuinely understand what he is talking about, so we should either go with his solution or close this thread.
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- Thread starter
- #137
It doesn't make sense to discard all of Iron Man's 5-A or higher feats. You keep talking about consistency, but Marvel has been very consistent about Iron Man's portrayal as being on this tier. There is no real reason to downplay Iron Man by ignoring these feats beyond affirming personal opinions and biases. Newendigo seems to believe that Extremis and Bleeding Edge are only Tier 6 or lower, and I believe him to be very wrong. You say Endo-Sym and and Model Prime should be 5-A, but that undercuts your entire argument because neither of those suits have destroyed a planet, and the reason for them scaling to 5-A is the exact same reason I believe Extremis and Bleeding Edge to be 5-A. Why is Model Prime scaling from Hulkbuster, which in turns scales from Hulk, reasonable while it isn't for Extremis?
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I am fine with scaling a few of Iron Man's armors to 5-A in lack of better options. I am just saying that his feats are never of anywhere near that scale as far as I can recall, so fighting such characters seem more a case of PIS and popularity power than anything else.
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I think you all shoukd start calling more knowledgeable to read this and decide what decision should be made at this point...
I have established my stance and opinion, and I'm not changing it going by opposition arguments, which only lead to repeated discussion.
So I do rather get more fresh material.
I have established my stance and opinion, and I'm not changing it going by opposition arguments, which only lead to repeated discussion.
So I do rather get more fresh material.
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- #142
For the most part I agree with you. From what I have seen, pre-Extremis Iron Man was not on this level at all, and I think High 6-A scaling is completely appropriate for that profile. I'm just saying that I firmly believe all of the recent armors (Extremis, Bleeding Edge, Model 42, and Model Prime) to easily be on this level.
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I agree with Gobb. Other than that, I agree with the rest of Newendigo's solution too
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Okay. That is a reasonable evaluation.
I am just thinking of many occasions like when Iron Man knocked out the Hulk with one overcharged punch in a very old and unadvanced armor.
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@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @Planck69
What do you think about this?
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Haven't read the whole thread in a while but in terms of different pages, I think Classic and Modern would be fine, with multiple keys on each.
I'll read over the other stuff later.
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Personally, I agree with the idea of making weapon profiles for the various Iron Man armors. Tony is the most prolific weapon user in Marvel, constantly inventing new tech and replacing his main suit every few years. I haven't read the whole thread but this is what I would do:
We solidify the stable profile for Tony himself. Said profile can include a variable tier to address the different levels each armor end up being. This way, we don't ahve to worry about cluttering up Tony's profile. The profile will also be kind of the main index for the various Iron Man Armor Weapon Profiles.
Next, we make weapon profiles only for the most prolific and relevant armors he possesses. Armors like the Hulkbuster, Model 51, Endo-Sym, Bleeding Edge, Extremis, etc. Armors that we really get to know by either being around for years or demonstrate highly notable feats. That way, we can really go into detail for those armors and their specific feats. If an armor proves to be really powerful, well, it's just that specific model and doesn't mess with the rest of the armors' scaling.
This way, we create a stable template and procedure for Tony moving forward because let's face it. That guy is not gonna stop making armor anytime soon.
We solidify the stable profile for Tony himself. Said profile can include a variable tier to address the different levels each armor end up being. This way, we don't ahve to worry about cluttering up Tony's profile. The profile will also be kind of the main index for the various Iron Man Armor Weapon Profiles.
Next, we make weapon profiles only for the most prolific and relevant armors he possesses. Armors like the Hulkbuster, Model 51, Endo-Sym, Bleeding Edge, Extremis, etc. Armors that we really get to know by either being around for years or demonstrate highly notable feats. That way, we can really go into detail for those armors and their specific feats. If an armor proves to be really powerful, well, it's just that specific model and doesn't mess with the rest of the armors' scaling.
This way, we create a stable template and procedure for Tony moving forward because let's face it. That guy is not gonna stop making armor anytime soon.
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I think that only the most prominent and easily scalable armors should be featured, and that we should preferably place them in statistics keys for classic and modern profile pages. It seems like spam otherwise.
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I do agree with ant. I think it's silly to use multiple profiles when multiple keys would do just fine.
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I'd love to see just one profile for Tony. The problem is, is that Tony is every adding armors. I'm not saying that we should add every armor but his most prolific armors have differing circumstances and properties to them depending on what Tony was going through at the time. Tony has gone through many bodily changes that do not always hold over to his next set of armors. Extremis Virus, R.T. Node, Extremis 3.0, etc.
Tony is essentially the Ben 10 of Marvel. His powers and abilities vary widely depending on the armor he's using. I simply suggesting a method that doesn't involve us having to sort through 77 armors worth of info to decide what should go into one profile.
Tony is essentially the Ben 10 of Marvel. His powers and abilities vary widely depending on the armor he's using. I simply suggesting a method that doesn't involve us having to sort through 77 armors worth of info to decide what should go into one profile.
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We don't need more than two profiles.
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- #157
What about suits like Hulkbuster, Phoenixbuster, Thorbuster, etc?
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I know you just disagreed with more than two profiles, but I remember earlier in this thread someone suggested that all the buster armors should have one separate profile where they're covered altogether. Maybe that could work?
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Give them keys, or extra parts on the same key. "5-A, 4-B with thorbuster and phoenix buster' or shit like that
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