Tony Stark Intelligence Upgrade (Comics)

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

My apologies, but we need to follow our standards even for characters that we really like.

I actually severely dislike Tony

 

[Tomfer]

Instead of y'all just throwing all the feats here, the OP should add scans for versatility.

Y'all better not wait for me because after what Ant said, I immediately lost interest on this thread entirely, and I make Phoenks words mine.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Y'all better not wait for me because after what Ant said, I immediately lost interest on this thread entirely, and I make Phoenks words mine.

Need this closed then?

 

[Tomfer]

Need this closed then?

I'd wait 24 hours just to see if someone wishes to take the wheel in my stead or wishes to discuss further, if so, I'd update the OP accordingly to their needs, otherwise you're to free to close whenever you want.

 

[Phoenks]

Pretty sure most people think Ant's claims are ridiculous. I don't have Iron Man scans so I can't exactly just take over the thread, but like... there's already more than enough to say the guy is supergenius and you have a vote in favor of that in the form of Lephyr.

 

[Antvasima]

Look, as the full quote regarding our Supergenius requirements quite clearly shows, there should be a combination of reality-warping versatility and literally infinite power in order to qualify. For example, if an inventor's only claim to fame is to create a gun that can hurt the Low 1-C game version of Goku, that should not qualify.

Personal accusations, agitation, and hostility towards me are misdirected and unnecessary here. Currently I think that Tony qualifies for either "At least Extraordinary Genius, possibly Supergenius" or "At least Extraordinary Genius, likely Supergenius", but to achieve a certain Supergenius rating somebody needs to prove that he is extremely versatile in terms of his types of inventions, preferably by listing several good examples here. I am not unreasonable in that regard.

 

[Excellence616]

Look, as the full quote regarding our Supergenius requirements quite clearly shows, there should be a combination of reality-warping versatility and literally infinite power in order to qualify.

Can someone get Super genius by scaling to someone who is?

For example, if an inventor's only claim to fame is to create a gun that can hurt the Low 1-C game version of Goku, that should not qualify.

Goku is different from Celestials.. in the sense that The Celestials are Higher D and BDE in terms of existence and power, while Goku is only Low 1-C based on AP.

"And in-verse, the gap between him and Reed or Doom has always been treated as fairly small. And here, "Lord Thor" also says that his technology was nearly a match for Asgardian wizardry. Him singling out Iron Man when talking about massive threats to his reign, even when other characters like Scarlet Witch and Doctor Strange attacked him, feels significant."

Wouldn't this be sufficient enough to warrant Super genius?

 

[Antvasima]

Can someone get Super genius by scaling to someone who is?

Preferably not, especially given the enormous inconsistencies and conflicting writer biases or uninformed evaluations by them in Marvel Comics. We have our standards and they have theirs, and we scale from actual feats, versatility, and power output.

For example, Marvel's editorial department has heavily tried to (suddenly) promote Moon Girl as more intelligent than either Reed Richards or Doctor Doom, but she would still have to prove it through her own feats before we rate her beyond Extraordinary Genius.

Goku is different from Celestials.. in the sense that The Celestials are Higher D and BDE in terms of existence and power, while Goku is only Low 1-C based on AP.

Yes, but I used an example for that one trick pony attack potency scale alone is not remotely sufficient to qualify.

Wouldn't this be sufficient enough to warrant Super genius?

No, those are just opinions, not proven feats of accomplishment.

 

[Newendigo]

I am seeing some confusion on the qualifiers here so Imma just leave this here and y'all can decide:

I put the key points being argued here in bold. From the looks of it, you do need to show versatility on top of sheer AP. Neutral for now.

Also I would like to know if Tony made those armors from scratch since that seems to be a requirement too.

I guess that more or less discounts the Celestial Hulkbuster, since that was a hollowed out corpse that he stole from Knull. Same for the Phoenix buster since he had outside help (granted I don't remember that part of the story)

As for the eScape, what are our standards for virtual realities being considered real universes? Should they have a proper space-time continuum to count? Because otherwise the eScape is not a real universe but a rather complex VR.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I guess that more or less discounts the Celestial Hulkbuster, since that was a hollowed out corpse that he stole from Knull. Same for the Phoenix buster since he had outside help (granted I don't remember that part of the story)

As for the eScape, what are our standards for virtual realities being considered real universes? Should they have a proper space-time continuum to count? Because otherwise the eScape is not a real universe but a rather complex VR.

Valid points.

I wish the supporters would actually put efforts into explaining why Tony meets the standards instead of whining about standards and bias. If someone thinks the standards are bs then make a CRT to change them instead of whining about them in a CRT about iron man.

 

[ObberGobb]

I think at best Tony's Tier 1 armors are good as supporting evidence for Supergenius, same with the Thor statement I provided. I am curious about the eScape though.

Right now, I think "At least Extraordinary Genius, likely Supergenius" would be best. The stories certainly imply that he is intended to be on almost the same level as Reed and Doom, but he hasn't shown enough direct stuff to warrant a solid rating based on this wiki's standards.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I think at best Tony's Tier 1 armors are good as supporting evidence for Supergenius, same with the Thor statement I provided. I am curious about the eScape though.

Right now, I think "At least Extraordinary Genius, likely Supergenius" would be best. The stories certainly imply that he is intended to be on almost the same level as Reed and Doom, but he hasn't shown enough direct stuff to warrant a solid rating based on this wiki's standards.

I agree with this for now. Though I am skeptical that in all these years, Tony didn't accumulate enough scans for versatility.

About the tier 1 armors. Were they made from scratch? Or did Tony reverse engineer tier 1 equipment. Making them from scratch is clearly stated as a requirement.

 

[ObberGobb]

I agree with this for now. Though I am skeptical that in all these years, Tony didn't accumulate enough scans for versatility.

About the tier 1 armors. Were they made from scratch? Or did Tony reverse engineer tier 1 equipment. Making them from scratch is clearly stated as a requirement.

Thorbuster was made using a magical energy source given to him by Thor. Celestial Hulkbuster was reverse-engineered. Godkiller Mk2 and Phoenix Buster were made from scratch I think, but Phoenix Buster was collaborative with Hank Pym.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Thorbuster was made using a magical energy source given to him by Thor. Celestial Hulkbuster was reverse-engineered. Godkiller Mk2 and Phoenix Buster were made from scratch I think, but Phoenix Buster was collaborative with Hank Pym.

So I guess Godkiller Mk2 is the best option since all the others had some sort of advantage. But it makes me curious, is Godkiller Mk2 a derivative of Godkiller Mk1? If so, was Godkiller Mk1 tier 1 and made from scratch?

 

[Newendigo]

There is little information about the God Killer Mk2, we only know that Stark built it on Mars with multiple nuclear reactors.
Its clearly a nod to the original God Killer, but nothing beyond that, the story doesn't directly acknowledge the existance of the latter

 

[Excellence616]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Look, as the full quote regarding our Supergenius requirements quite clearly shows, there should be a combination of reality-warping versatility and literally infinite power in order to qualify. For example, if an inventor's only claim to fame is to create a gun that can hurt the Low 1-C game version of Goku, that should not qualify.

Personal accusations, agitation, and hostility towards me are misdirected and unnecessary here. Currently I think that Tony qualifies for either "At least Extraordinary Genius, possibly Supergenius" or "At least Extraordinary Genius, likely Supergenius", but to achieve a certain Supergenius rating somebody needs to prove that he is extremely versatile in terms of his types of inventions, preferably by listing several good examples here. I am not unreasonable in that regard.

What I said here still applies.

 

[ObberGobb]

I think "At least Extraordinary Genius, likely Supergenius" is the best option here. Like I think the stories themselves definitely consistently portray the gap between Tony and Reed as being rather small, but I agree that Tony hasn't actually displayed anywhere near the level of versatility that Reed has, so doesn't as solidly meet this site's standards.

That being said, what inventions/intelligence feats could be listed to support a possible/likely rating? We have him making Tier 1 weapons, making a virtual universe, Thor saying his tech was almost a match for Asgardian sorcery, and various statements about being close to Reed. Is this enough for possibly/likely, or should there be more?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the statements of Tony being close to Reed are biased hyperbolic nonsense from specific writers, much like the Moon Girl issue of forcibly suddenly declaring that she is the smartest character ever without remotely showing the feats to prove it as far as I am aware.

However, we can use the examples of Tony building tier 1 weaponry for the "likely Supergenius" part of his intelligence statistic.