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Iron Man CRT (Profile Expansion and 5-A Upgrade)

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Antvasima said:
Newendigo makes sense to me.

To make one of several examples:

Aunt May is strong enough to harm J. Jonah Jameson, who has punched Spider-Man bloody, who is physically stronger than the Black Panther, who has defeated the Tiger God, who has defeated Logos, who has killed the Living Tribunal, who has been stated to be superior to Oblivion, so Aunt May is 1-A, just, f.y.i.

Meaning, we need to use actual raw power feats rather than power-scaling to a greater degree than with other franchises for Marvel Comics, because the writers and editors are symbolism-tripping, metafiction-writing, spiteful and manipulative political and ideological activists first and foremost. They do not care about basic storytelling logic, consistent characterisation, or coherent continuity to any noteworthy degree. They care about getting rich and famous from playing social engineers, and that's it.
Click to expand...
I would normally agree with you, but saying that Iron Man is 5-A isn't even close to saying that Aunt May is 1-A. It's not just a string of outliers and PIS that give him this scale, it's a very consistent portrayal of his character. The only way you could reasonably argue that he isn't 5-A, is if you immensely downplay Hulk, Red Hulk, Namor, Graviton, Magneto, Corvus Glaive, Wonder Man, Taurus, Gladiator, Sentry, Doctor Doom, etc. You would basically have to completely change the current scaling of the entire Marvel Universe in order to argue that Iron Man is only Tier 7 or 6.
 
Well, we have to go with sufficient consistency, in lack of better options, but again, Iron Man has no feats remotely of that level that I know of. Marvel simply runs on anybody can fight anybody plot-induced stupidity, combined with extremely inconsistent power levels, so our statistics for the franchise are unfortunately generally exaggerated and unreliable.
 
A better question to ask would be whether Iron Man's scaling is more consistent in tier 7 than in tier 5, I don't think we need feats, just to find where he is most consistent. From what I've seen I think scaling to those tier 5 seems more fitting, although I kind of disagree with the tiering of that set of characters, that's unrelated
 
I already called some knowledgeable members here earlier.
 
That said, our current system is to scale from great consistency. I was just making a general point.
 
Okay. Then that is probably fine for his most powerful armors, but we should still not spam too many versions without calculations in his profile page.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Then that is probably fine for his most powerful armors, but we should still not spam too many versions without calculations in his profile page.
Click to expand...
Ok. So which option would you personally support the most?
  • A profile for each major armor
  • A "Classic" profile and a "Modern" profile, with some other profiles for more specialized things like Hulkbuster and Sol's Hammer
  • My suggestion of Pre-Extremis | Extremis | Bleeding Edge | Model 42 | Endo-Sym | Model Prime
 
Just classic and modern profile pages, each featuring a few of most prominent armors from each era with clear scaling for the statistics.
 
Antvasima said:
Just classic and modern profile pages, each featuring a few of most prominent armors from each era with clear scaling for the statistics.
Click to expand...
That sounds good to me. So I take it you disagree with the idea of creating profiles for specialized armors?
 
If they are not as prominent as the Hulkbuster, and are hard to scale to, yes.
 
I can agree with the separation between classic and modern, likely using th 2005 retcon (In which Tony's is held captive in Afghanistan instead of Vietnam) as a starting point, but disagree with the use of power scaling in the OP.

By making a second page, we will also have to separate other stats, such as abilities, speed and intelligence. I could potentially try to help on that but it will take a lot of time.
 
Firestorm808 said:
I think we should prioritize armors with the most issue appearances.
Click to expand...
What armors do you think should be on the key for Classic? For modern I think Extremis, Bleeding Edge, Model 42, Endo-Sym, and Model Prime are all good (Although maybe Endo-Sym doesn't need to be there if we want to have less keys), but I'm not sure about classic.
 
Current Iron Man Armor Appearances
  • Classic
    • 198 | Iron Man Armor Model 1
    • 228 | Iron Man Armor Model 2
    • 390 | Iron Man Armor Model 3
    • 518 | Iron Man Armor Model 4
    • 15 | Iron Man Armor Model 5 (Space Armor)
    • 23 | Iron Man Armor Model 6 (Hydro Armor)
    • 29 | Iron Man Armor Model 7 (Stealth Armor)
    • 156 | Iron Man Armor Model 8 (Silver Centurion Armor)
    • 218 | Iron Man Armor Model 9
    • 13 | Iron Man Armor Model 10
    • 123 | Iron Man Armor Model 11 (War Machine Armor)
    • 26 | Iron Man Armor Model 12
    • 93 | Iron Man Armor Model 13 (Hulkbuster)
    • 12 | Iron Man Armor Model 14
    • 29 | Iron Man Armor Model 15
    • 17 | Iron Man Armor Model YT1
    • 41 | Iron Man Armor Model CE1 (Prometheum Armor)
    • 108 | Iron Man Armor Model 16
    • 5 | Iron Man Armor Model 17
    • 7 | Iron Man Armor Model 18
    • 17 | Iron Man Armor Model 19
    • 46 | Iron Man Armor Model 20
    • 3 | Iron Man Armor Model 21 (Stealth Armor)
    • 7 | Iron Man Armor Model 22 (Thorbuster Armor)
    • 4 | Iron Man Armor Model 23
    • 14 | Iron Man Armor Model 24
    • 84 | Iron Man Armor Model 25
    • 9 | Iron Man Armor Model 26
    • 6 | Iron Man Armor Model 27
  • Modern
    • 10 | Iron Man Armor Model 28
    • 441 | Iron Man Armor Model 29 (Extremis Armor)
    • 7 | Iron Man Armor Model 30
    • 16 | Iron Man Armor Model 31
    • 6 | Iron Man Armor Model 32
    • 9 | Iron Man Armor Model 33
    • 13 | Iron Man Armor Model 34
    • 4 | Iron Man Armor Model 35
    • 13 | Iron Man Armor Model 36 (Hulkbuster Armor)
    • 257 | Iron Man Armor Model 37 (Bleeding Edge Armor) (Iron Destroyer Armor)
    • 5 | Iron Man Armor Model 38
    • 9 | Iron Man Armor Model 39
    • 4 | Iron Man Armor Model 40
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 41
    • 188 | Iron Man Armor Model 42
    • 14 | Iron Man Armor Model 43 (Stealth Armor)
    • 5 | Iron Man Armor Model 44 (Heavy Duty Armor)
    • 47 | Iron Man Armor Model 45 (Deep-Space Armor) (Saturn V Armor)
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 46
    • 3 | Iron Man Armor Model 47
    • 3 | Iron Man Armor Model 48
    • 3 | Iron Man Armor Model 49
    • 41 | Iron Man Armor Model 50 (Endo-Sym Armor)
    • 177 | Iron Man Armor Model 51 (Model-Prime Armor) (Victor von Doom's Armor)
    • 18 | Iron Man Armor Model 52 (Hulkbuster Armor)
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 53
    • 5 | Iron Man Armor Model 54
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 55
    • 8 | Iron Man Armor Model 56
    • 2 | Iron Man Armor Model 57 (Fin Fang Foombuster Armor)
    • 2 | Iron Man Armor Model 58 (Nano Iron Man Armor)
    • 2 | Iron Man Armor Model 59
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 60
    • 2 | Iron Man Armor Model 61 (Godkiller Armor MK II)
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 62
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 63 (Godbuster Armor)
    • 10 | Iron Man Armor Model 64
    • 3 | Iron Man Armor Model 65 (Ultronbuster Armor)
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 66 (Ice Armor)
    • 9 | Iron Man Armor Model 67
    • 2 | Iron Man Armor Model 68 (Virtual Armor)
    • 1 | Iron Man Armor Model 69
    • 13 | Iron Man Armor Model 70
 
So I think these would be the best sets of keys:

Classic: Model 1 | Model 2 | Model 3 | Model 4 | Model 8 (Silver Centurion) | Model 9 | Model 16 | Model 20 | Model 25
Modern: Extremis | Bleeding Edge | Model 42 | Model 45 | Endo-Sym | Model Prime

If this is too many still, we should probably slim down the section of Model 1 - Model 4, but between 2, 3, and 4, I'm not sure which the most important to keep would be. Model 25 is a nice place to end it, as it is immediately followed by the Extremis armor, the first key of Modern. I skipped the War Machine, Hulkbuster, and Prometheum armors because I think we should stick to the main suits. I also think a Hulkbuster profile would be best, as there a few variations of the Hulkbuster. Once current Iron Man gets more feats, we can add a key for that as well.
 
Last edited:
ObberGobb said:
So I think these would be the best sets of keys:

Classic: Model 1 | Model 2 | Model 3 | Model 4 | Model 8 (Silver Centurion) | Model 16 | Model 20 | Model 25
Modern: Extremis | Bleeding Edge | Model 42 | Model 45 | Endo-Sym | Model Prime

If this is too many still, we should probably slim down the section of Model 1 - Model 4, but between 2, 3, and 4, I'm not sure which the most important to keep would be. Model 25 is a nice place to end it, as it is immediately followed by the Extremis armor, the first key of Modern. I skipped the War Machine, Hulkbuster, and Prometheum armors because I think we should stick to the main suits. I also think a Hulkbuster profile would be best, as there a few variations of the Hulkbuster. Once current Iron Man gets more feats, we can add a key for that as well.
Click to expand...
I'll start reading up on endo symm
 
It isn't as simple as just using the armors that he has used the most. We need to focus on the part of those armors that have calculations or consistent feats as well.
 
Antvasima said:
Newendigo makes sense to me.

To make one of several examples:

Aunt May is strong enough to harm J. Jonah Jameson, who has punched Spider-Man bloody, who is physically stronger than the Black Panther, who has defeated the Tiger God, who has defeated Logos, who has killed the Living Tribunal, who has been stated to be superior to Oblivion, so Aunt May is 1-A, just, f.y.i.

Meaning, we need to use actual raw power feats rather than power-scaling to a greater degree than with other franchises for Marvel Comics, because the writers and editors are symbolism-tripping, metafiction-writing, spiteful and manipulative political and ideological activists first and foremost. They do not care about basic storytelling logic, consistent characterisation, or coherent continuity to any noteworthy degree. They care about getting rich and famous from playing social engineers, and that's it.
Click to expand...
Alright, slow down there.

"Iron man can't be 5-A because you can make Aunt May 1-A" is absolutely ridiculous, and you know it's ridiculous. As detailed above, Iron man has very consistent feats, and using a scaling chain that compeltely ignores context and consistency, something that you yourself constantly complain that Marvel does, to try and debunk that spits in the face of common sense.

"because the writers and editors are symbolism-tripping, metafiction-writing, spiteful and manipulative political and ideological activists first and foremost. They do not care about basic storytelling logic, consistent characterisation, or coherent continuity to any noteworthy degree. They care about getting rich and famous from playing social engineers, and that's it."

unknown.png


I apologize in advance for my next statement, but this is something that needs to be said.

What in the everloving hell does political ideology have to do with the tiering of a character. This is literally one of the top fallacies on this site's own page. You are not a marvel writer, and you have no right to assume the writer's motivations and then play god with pages that have nothing to do with politics, or ideology, or whatever you want to try and pull, and you especially have no right to make this ridiculous blanket statement about dozens of different writers, while you simultaneously go on about how scaling between comics is bad BECAUSE of marvel comics having dozens of writers. It's hypocritical.

Dude, I repsect you a lot, and I absolutely get that Comics are hard as **** to scale. Yes, it's frustrating, i get it, VS debating in general is frustrating, especially for people on the autism spectrum like you and I. I get it.

But trying to equate vs debating to politics is absolute bullshit.
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
Alright, slow down there.

"Iron man can't be 5-A because you can make Aunt May 1-A" is absolutely ridiculous, and you know it's ridiculous. As detailed above, Iron man has very consistent feats, and using a scaling chain that compeltely ignores context and consistency, something that you yourself constantly complain that Marvel does, to try and debunk that spits in the face of common sense.

"because the writers and editors are symbolism-tripping, metafiction-writing, spiteful and manipulative political and ideological activists first and foremost. They do not care about basic storytelling logic, consistent characterisation, or coherent continuity to any noteworthy degree. They care about getting rich and famous from playing social engineers, and that's it."

unknown.png


I apologize in advance for my next statement, but this is something that needs to be said.

What in the everloving hell does political ideology have to do with the tiering of a character. This is literally one of the top fallacies on this site's own page. You are not a marvel writer, and you have no right to assume the writer's motivations and then play god with pages that have nothing to do with politics, or ideology, or whatever you want to try and pull, and you especially have no right to make this ridiculous blanket statement about dozens of different writers, while you simultaneously go on about how scaling between comics is bad BECAUSE of marvel comics having dozens of writers. It's hypocritical.

Dude, I repsect you a lot, and I absolutely get that Comics are hard as **** to scale. Yes, it's frustrating, i get it, VS debating in general is frustrating, especially for people on the autism spectrum like you and I. I get it.

But trying to equate vs debating to politics is absolute bullshit.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agreed.
 
I made a list of several feats of him in chronological order, from calculated feats, non-calculated ones and feats I have heard of but I have yet to find...

For classic:
Now for modern:
As you can see, Classic does perform seemingly higher level feats compared to current one, with some minor ones (Which sort of makes sense as way back Marvel and DC used to throw feats and statements of characters destroying planets and galaxies and shit more often than nowadays).

If we were to separate the pages, I would use this list as a main source.

I also know the comic issues from where those feats came from, but I was too lazy to citate them. 😓
 
Last edited:
I know, but the calcs says otherwise, albeit I believe is wrong for different reasons, namely the fact that those types of "mountains" are not exactly stable at all.
 
To be honest, this thread wouldn't have worked at all for the reasons I have stated.

No offense to OP, but you simply picked up an old RT from reddit, one I and many have read, and decide to just go by it and add a bunch of keys with no regards of any other stats, the actual consistency of the character, or how it would affect other profiles that scales to him.

All of this should have been much, much more planned, didn't I mentioned how I have been researching the character since late 2017 and I haven't even come up with a proper thread yet?.
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
Alright, slow down there.

"Iron man can't be 5-A because you can make Aunt May 1-A" is absolutely ridiculous, and you know it's ridiculous. As detailed above, Iron man has very consistent feats, and using a scaling chain that compeltely ignores context and consistency, something that you yourself constantly complain that Marvel does, to try and debunk that spits in the face of common sense.
Click to expand...
That is not what I am saying. I just used one especially glaring example among many to illustrate that Marvel is insanely inconsistent and does not subscribe to basic storytelling logic. We still have to use consistency for scaling, in lack of better options, but even that is unreliable without feats of that scale.
ZephyrosOmega said:
unknown.png


I apologize in advance for my next statement, but this is something that needs to be said.

What in the everloving hell does political ideology have to do with the tiering of a character. This is literally one of the top fallacies on this site's own page. You are not a marvel writer, and you have no right to assume the writer's motivations and then play god with pages that have nothing to do with politics, or ideology, or whatever you want to try and pull, and you especially have no right to make this ridiculous blanket statement about dozens of different writers, while you simultaneously go on about how scaling between comics is bad BECAUSE of marvel comics having dozens of writers. It's hypocritical.

Dude, I repsect you a lot, and I absolutely get that Comics are hard as **** to scale. Yes, it's frustrating, i get it, VS debating in general is frustrating, especially for people on the autism spectrum like you and I. I get it.

But trying to equate vs debating to politics is absolute bullshit.
Click to expand...
My apologies, but I stand by the sentiments of what I said. My very strong impression from Marvel and DC Comics is that the stories have gradually grown less and less entertaining and more and more into pure extremely slanted, deceptive, and spiteful political propaganda. This is the genuine truth of the matter as far as my pattern-recognition can tell me, and without trying to brag, I used to test extremely high on IQ tests in that particular area.

That said, it is obviously derailment, so I apologise about that.
 
Anyway, back to the main topic: Thank you very much for your elaborate research Newendigo.
 
Also, my apologies for derailing and getting into areas that I should leave outside of this community. I have a triggered hangup in this this regard.
 
Modern Iron Man being 5-A completely fits the logic of the scaling on his current profile. Model Prime is listed as 5-A because it should be comparable to his previous armors, and the Model 50 one shot a Hulkbuster. This logic says that the Hulkbuster is 5-A, which makes complete sense as it has fought the Hulk. But if Model Prime is scaled to being 5-A from the Hulkbuster, then all of the other armors I listed are easily 5-A as well. Extremist, Model 42, and Endo-Sym have all fought the Hulk or Hulkbusters, while Bleeding Edge is canonically stronger than Extremis and has fought Red Hulk. Saying Extremis is 5-A because it fought Hulkbusters which fought Hulk who is at least 5-A isn't a leap in logic at all, and is consistent with other feats I listed.
 
I agree as well. I'm curious though; do you think all the armors from Bleeding Edge and up should be possibly 5-A up to 4-B (based on the scans you gave for Bleeding Edge) or you think that's a stretch?
 
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