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Irene Belserion vs Admiral Aokiji

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The Calaca said:
Invel doesn't frostbite.

Buffalo stated that Doffy wasn't frozen to the bone and that's why he was able to break free from the ice.
Click to expand...
You're telling me that a guy that can instantly freez gasses can't frost bite? You kidding right?

All im getting from this is that Kuzan failed to freez someone vastly weeker than Irene.
 
BTW, there's a reason why Doffy scales to Likely Low 6-B by himself. That's reason is from stopping Jozu mid-attack and, yes, breaking free from Kuzan's ice. So that point is moot.

IDK if ice is also measured with AP just like fire is, but if so, then Kuzan will obviously freeze Irene while Invel won't.
 
The Calaca said:
Argument from disbelief <<< Evidence.
Click to expand...
This is true.

That said, it does suggest that there is a hole in the above mentioned arguments of Kuzan simply freezing her and being done because his ice negates durability.

If much weaker characters can take temperatures so low without being instantly killed- I'm referring to characters like Mard Geer, Lucy and Juvia- without any explicit resistance to ice manipulation, why would ice that we have no evidence- as far as I'm aware- reaches the aforementioned temperatures instantly kill Irene?

And as far as I'm aware, at the very least for cold based powers we don't scale them that way
 
The Calaca said:
BTW, there's a reason why Doffy scales to Likely Low 6-B by himself. That's reason is from stopping Jozu mid-attack and, yes, breaking free from Kuzan's ice. So that point is moot.

IDK if ice is also measured with AP just like fire is, but if so, then Kuzan will obviously freeze Irene while Invel won't.
Click to expand...
Might as well make crocodile country level to while at it since he took a punch from Jozu too...Marine ford is filled with inconsistencies and outliers it baffles me.


That's not how temperatures work fam
 
His ice makes frostbite. Invel and Gray need such feats to be proven right.

BTW, Kuzan has done the same thing of freezing the air itself. The Partisan swords appear from nowhere and the ice Shirohige is encased on appears around him. He doesn't make contact with the ice nor the ground (see he's mid-air).

It wouldn't instantly kill Irene unless Kuzan encases her whole body into ice, but losing an arm or a leg will severely cripple her. Even her own weight can make that happen, as seen with Jozu's arm.

@Trinimac

Too bad for you we're scaling Doffy to Kuzan because of that, fam.

Some of the reasons why Doffy's case is weird it's because there's a fair amount of possibilities as why he broke free. Whether his Haki was strong enough to prevent getting encased on ice or his Ito Ito no Mi helped him to do it despite being clearly inferior to Kuzan. None of those are abilities Irene possess and as such she shouldn't be able to break free without her own feats.
 
@Calaca Frostbite isn't an ability, it is a naturally occurring phenomena when temperatures get low enough, hence there is no reason to "prove it"

@Rin not from what I've seen. So far I've seen calcs that calculate AP based on the actual volume individuals have been able to freeze, but nowhere have I seen it that we equate temperatures with AP, well almost nowhere. I've seen Calaca mention it in regards to fire (which is news to me), but never to cold.
 
Yes, you need to prove they can frostbite. I have doubts about the oxygen freezing stuff without it if the difference is that big.

But I'd concede that he can so does Kuzan, which goes nowhere since he's still stronger than Irene and none of those feats were his maximum effort.
 
The Calaca said:
His ice makes frostbite. Invel and Gray need such feats to be proven right.

BTW, Kuzan has done the same thing of freezing the air itself. The Partisan swords appear from nowhere and the ice Shirohige is encased on appears around him. He doesn't make contact with the ice nor the ground (see he's mid-air).

It wouldn't instantly kill Irene unless Kuzan encases her whole body into ice, but losing an arm or a leg will severely cripple her. Even her own weight can make that happen, as seen with Jozu's arm.

@Trinimac

Too bad for you we're scaling Doffy to Kuzan because of that, fam.

Some of the reasons why Doffy's case is weird it's because there's a fair amount of possibilities as why he broke free. Whether his Haki was strong enough to prevent getting encased on ice or his Ito Ito no Mi helped him to do it despite being clearly inferior to Kuzan. None of those are abilities Irene possess and as such she shouldn't be able to break free without her own feats.
Click to expand...
That looks like condensation to me coming of from his ice dosen't seem like is frozen on any of those panels.

Her dragon physique would make her much more durable than Doffy Erzas attack wich was about 2teratons wouldn't have been able to even penetrate her scales and there's also the fact that Kuzan simoly can't make the temperature cold enough to freeze her in the first place.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
That is how it works here, you must be new. Temperatures can be tanked through AP, so we scale fire and ice to AP rather than temperature.
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That legit makes no logical sense though and I'm actually not new I just don't get on here all that often.
 
>Condensation

>Ice's spawning from the air

>Condensation is when liquid appears from gas

Boi.

>He can't make the temperature cold enough

Burden of proof.

Funny how you defend this case even while I'm the one who provided scans unlike you.

>Her dragon physique

Yes, to physical attacks. If Kuzan tries to stab her with Partisan he might not do much (but he can, since he's stronger), but freezing someone to the bone is textbook durability negation.
 
Kuzan's AP>>> Irene's durability. He scales to higher than Irene's, also I'll ask a calc member about the source but I'm 99% sure ice is tanked through AP as well, if the recent AZ thread is anything to go by. Temperatures before AZ can be tanked through AP alone.
 
@Calaca I mean this is the equivalent of me asking you to prove that fire burns, they are lowering temperatures, frostbite is a natural phenomena based on lowering temperatures, but ok I guess. Here, you see Erza's skin and fingers begin to chip and crack after exposure, the anime then takes this further in showing her hand turns pale blue- a symptom of severe frostbite.

@Rin I thought that Kuzan has about a 2x ap advantage? So he isn't so far above Irene I thought. Plus can his ice negate durability or not? Because if it's AP reliant she likely won't freeze quite as easily.
 
The Calaca said:
>Condensation

>Ice's spawning from the air

>Condensation is when liquid appears from gas

Boi.

>He can't make the temperature cold enough

Burden of proof.

Funny how you defend this case even while I'm the one who provided scans unlike you.

>Her dragon physique

Yes, to physical attacks. If Kuzan tries to stab her with Partisan he might not do much (but he can, since he's stronger), but freezing someone to the bone is textbook durability negation.
Click to expand...
The gass clouds coming off from his ice are water droplets that's called condensation fam.

What's hes best temperature feat? What freezing water? I don't remember anything better than that.

What scans do you need you never asked i was never against posting any scans.

Dragon resistance works regardless if its physical or an energy attack.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Kuzan's AP>>> Irene's durability. He scales to higher than Irene's, also I'll ask a calc member about the source but I'm 99% sure ice is tanked through AP as well, if the recent AZ thread is anything to go by. Temperatures before AZ can be tanked through AP alone.
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that only certain ice attacks would actually scale to ap for example an ice construct being hurled at someone but freezing is another subject all together.
 
@David Thank you, that's a start. Tho not good enough when compared to Kuzan's tbf. Kuzan's ice can do this after a short contact.

But like I said, we're on a standpoint. Both share similar feats.

Kuzan's ice ignores durability because it freezes flesh and bone equally. Irene's AP means nothing against that.

We all know Ice-Type >>> Dragon-Type anyway

@Trinimac Good job ignoring the ice formed by Kuzan, m8. This support your point about his best temperature feat greatly.

Exactly, you haven't posted a single evidence. You're just going by what you think it's right, basing your arguments in fallacies.

Dragons don't have any resistance anymore. Check your profiles.
 
Davidsteel1 said:
The Calaca said:
I have doubts about the oxygen freezing stuff without it if the difference is that big.
Click to expand...
Also I forgot to ask earlier, what do u mean by this? I don't quite understand
Click to expand...
I probably wrote something I don't remember now. But I think I meant that if they have similar feats, then the difference isn't big at all.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
That is how it works here, you must be new. Temperatures can be tanked through AP, so we scale fire and ice to AP rather than temperature.
Click to expand...
iirc a thread was made recently about not thinking about it that way anymore

lemme try and find it
 
@Trinimac Good job ignoring the ice formed by Kuzan, m8. This support your point about his best temperature feat greatly.

Exactly, you haven't posted a single evidence. You're just going by what you think it's right, basing your arguments in fallacies.

Dragons don't have any resistance anymore. Check your profiles.

I didn't ignore it i just didn't considere it being freezing air i thought he just made the ice not outright froze the air around whitebeard, mostly because i see this in practically every character than can mess with ice.

I did say what do you want scans for exactly
 
Just found this.

CoiRubber says:

Can Rubber Freeze?
The technical answer is, no, rubber cannot freeze but it does get hard and brittle. The scientific definition of to freeze involves a phase shift of liquid into solid forming crystals. This phase occurs as a result of the temperature reaching the freezing point of the substance. As rubber polymers cannot form crystalline structures, they do not freeze by definitio. However, the physical property changes of rubber in low temperatures may affect the performance of your product.

Kuza doesn't give a **** about what's scientifically possible

@Trinimac For anything to prove Invel's or Gray's ice have anything to do with this thread.

Spoiler, they don't. If Invel truly has the ability to frostbite, he could win against Irene if he can survive one of her spells at all.
 
Already debunked.

She doesn't transmutate in-character and she won't possess a body without Magical power.
 
I think I got all the votes counted? It's 7-1 right?

Anyways, Assuming Doffy is < Irene is big luls considering Doffy scales > Jozu and somewhat < Aokiji from his feats. He even has his threads no-sell and destroy massive meteorites without him even doing anything himself, so... Doffy scales around the 2.5TT point due to his feat against Jozu, and tanking + breaking out of Aokiji's ice with no visible damage.

As for Aokiji, freezing characters to the core results in lower temperatures than freezing mere water, especially when it can happen instantly. Jozu lost his arm just by falling over because of how brittle he became.
 
The Calaca said:
Just found this.
Click to expand...
Kuza doesn't give a **** about what's scientifically possible

@Trinimac For anything to prove Invel's or Gray's ice have anything to do with this thread.

Spoiler, they don't. If Invel truly has the ability to frostbite, he could win against Irene if he can survive one of her spells at all.

Dude why you keep thinking that causing frostbite it's that hard -30 degrees is enough to cause frostbite I don't need to prove anything other than post a feat with -30 degrees or less and it's done.

Here he freezes fire solid https://**********.com/manga/Fairy-Tail/0497-013.png

I don't have time so you will have to wait till later for me to post more scans I'm not done yet
 
The Calaca said:
See what I said to David. It's pointless to talk about Invel and Gray. This is an Irene matchup.
Click to expand...
How is it pointless? They can't freeze her via temperature so Kuzan shouldn't be able to either he has not show temperatures lower than even Silver how froze solid a city of giants. https://**********.com/manga/Fairy-Tail/0348-002.png

And if you actually belive Invel could beat Irene based on "he could freeze her" than you're full of crap.

This is pointless
 
Yeah sure I suppose if you wanna assume the result of Invel vs Irene in order to grant her Resistance to ice manipulation. That's the equivalent of me giving Yonko Resistance to ice, magma and light manipulation for being stronger than Admirals. But feel free to make a CRT.
 
Irene can make Aokiji become a mouse or enchant your conscience in him./2

could say Why do you think it wouldn't work on it?
 
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