Infinitely above baseline 2-A Ben 10 cosmology and Alien X

[Badrimoine2019]

oh i believe that Derrick is always saying bullshit, but what he said was still kinda accurate anyway

So you think we shouldn't use the Derrick statement? I mean there is some evidence in the show than support that statement also its because of him if Atomix is the second most powerful alien after alien x

 

[FRIMI]

i mean, his statements can be used to back up claims but definitely shouldn't be your main reasoning

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

The timestream contains every past present and future timelines, so the timestream also consists of timelines that dont yet exist. This is how Paradox is able to travel 100 years into a future timeline where he failed to stop the extra dimensional beast,. The timeline shouldnt exist until 100 years after the events of the main series, yet Paradox can go there just fine.

 

[Dragomer]

That's not how timeline works, a timeline 100 years into the future is perfectly possible, litteraly every multiverse has timelines like that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well I don't really have much of an opinion on the OP, but the multiverse should be infinite anyways since this is what Paradox says.
Paradox: As Gwen guessed, cross-time is made up of parallel versions of the history we know. There are hundreds of them. A world where Gwen found the Omnitrix. A world where albedo turned to Alien X and was trapped motionless for nearly a year. A world where you didn't have to destroy the Omnitrix to defeat Vilgax.

Ben 10,000: Et cetera.

Paradox: Ad infinitum. These worlds are all every bit as real as our own, but they cannot must not be allowed to leak into ours. Which brings us to our problem.

He literally says to infinity, which is ad infinitum in english. Also when he brushes up No Watch Ben on quantum mechanics and string theory, we see many parallel worlds in the background that looks to be countless. And when he shows the tree and how it branches off it leads to the top of the tree which has more countless parallel worlds. Paradox's statement and Maltruant's don't contridict eachothers at all since Paradox says the timelines branch off to infinity (not infinitely) and Maltruant says there is an infinite time stream.

Seriously? We literally addressed from the very start of this thread on how this isnt 2-A at all. Ad-Infinitum is not 2-A....

And you especially cannot reach infinity just by expanding a bunch of worlds. "Branch off to infinity" just means they infinitely branch off. The fact that they branch at all means the number is finite but just endlessly increasing. It's not 2-A for the 10th time.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

That's not how timeline works, a timeline 100 years into the future is perfectly possible, litteraly every multiverse has timelines like that.

Of cource and here's the guy who tried to bring SSJRyu to upgrade or WANK DH TO 2-A LOL

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Seriously? We literally addressed from the very start of this thread on how this isnt 2-A at all. Ad-Infinitum is not 2-A....

And you especially cannot reach infinity just by expanding a bunch of worlds. "Branch off to infinity" just means they infinitely branch off. The fact that they branch at all means the number is finite but just endlessly increasing. It's not 2-A for the 10th time.

can't we at least use Derrick statement as a supporting evidence?

 

[Dragomer]

That's not how timeline works, a timeline 100 years into the future is perfectly possible, litteraly every multiverse has timelines like that.

Of cource and here's the guy who tried to bring SSJRyu to upgrade or WANK DH TO 2-A LOL

...Dude, that was a joke, i was laughing at you for trying to bring Kuro the Artist as a proof that Ben 10 was 2-A on the DBH vs Ben 10 thread.

You litteraly went and said 'i asked Kuro The Artist and he agree with me so it's right'.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Guys, enough with the derailing. We dont need this thread getting any worse.

Anyway, no, I am completely against using derricks statement at all. We're not going to give Ben 10 an exception pass and break protocol when next to no other verse, even verses with tons of author social media statements, get the exact same treatment and are rejected.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Of cource and here's the guy who tried to bring SSJRyu to upgrade or WANK DH TO 2-A LOL
...Dude, that was a joke, i was laughing at you for trying to bring Kuro the Artist as a proof that Ben 10 was 2-A on the DBH vs Ben 10 thread.

You litteraly went and said 'i asked Kuro The Artist and he agree with me so it's right'.

no it wasn't to upgrade ben 10 verse to 2-A, I've just asked if the all time lines are branching infinitely in all dimensions not just ben dimension

 

[Planck69]

So we're upgrading the verse off of faulty math that has no basis in canon and WoG that isn't reliable and comes from directly pestering one of the authors. Not to mention using one Generator Rex crossover as supporting evidence for turning an ad-infinitum multiverse to 2-A?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Paradox says the timelines branch off to infinity (not infinitely) and Maltruant says there is an infinite time stream.

This was the main point of his argument, not hte ad infinitum part. Also calling an infinite multiverse countless in no way contradicts infinity. @Plank Holiday said infinite dimentions instead of timelines any way, and what does it being one cross-over have to do with anything? Plenty of verses have cosmologies based off one statement.

 

[Dragomer]

Branching off to infinity mean branching off toward infinity AKA ever increasing AKA ad infinitum IMO, that's the same reason DBH isn't 2-A.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Maltruant's statement was addressed from the very first reply I made here, so it's irrelevant.

And major false equivalancy Zamasu. Those verses get their cosmologies upgraded with statements from characters who are credible to speak on the matter. And I already went in a lot of details on why Holiday isnt.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Branching off to infinity mean branching off toward infinity AKA ever increasing AKA ad infinitum IMO, that's the same reason DBH isn't 2-A.

You didn't have to remind me that 2-A DBH gets shafted Still dinemsions =/= timelines tho.

 

[Dragomer]

Branching off to infinity mean branching off toward infinity AKA ever increasing AKA ad infinitum IMO, that's the same reason DBH isn't 2-A.

You didn't have to remind me that 2-A DBH gets shafted Still dinemsions =/= timelines tho.

We're gonna act like 'paralel dimensions' don't mean 'paralel universes' 99% of the time ?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

When I mean is that Alternate Timelines are different from Parallel Dimensions where both are different space time continuums but don't share the same characteristics.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

Dimensions in Ben 10 are parallel universes that aren't part of the Ben 10 Time Stream. Like Legerdomain, the Null Void, and the 100 that Dagon conquered

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Then that should simply mean Ben 10 started with a 2-C sized Multiverse in the 100s intitally and then started expanding into a 2-B Multiverse later down the line.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

The dimensions I just listed aren't part of the Ben 10 Time Stream

 

[Planck69]

Paradox says the timelines branch off to infinity (not infinitely) and Maltruant says there is an infinite time stream.
This was the main point of his argument, not hte ad infinitum part. Also calling an infinite multiverse countless in no way contradicts infinity. @Plank Holiday said infinite dimentions instead of timelines any way, and what does it being one cross-over have to do with anything? Plenty of verses have cosmologies based off one statement.

1. I highly doubt a statement from Holiday is enough to just upgrade the multiverse to 2-A when it is never properly substantiated at any other moment.

2. Name a single verse that gets a 2-A rating based off one statement that's never substantiated by anything else in the setting. A verse like that should be downgraded as well.

3. A crossover would very easily lead to a lot of contradictory statements being made about the cosmology. The fact that we accept it as a source of information on the wiki as it is baffles me.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

Anyways I was just talking about the Ben 10 Multiverse, but the Cosmos/Omniverse is different it contains all realities- the dimensions, timelines, and universes. Ultimate Albedo with Azmuth's intellegence was able to sense the Omniverse and stated this.

Ultimate Albedo: No! Now I see the universe for what it is: We are all dust, bound by one enormous, universal force. No, not universal, not even multiversal, this omniversal force continues forever, in every direction through every reality. My lust for power, my jealousy of Azmuth, it isn't just evil, ultimately; it's pointless. I could never truly destroy you. You would only have not been not unexistent in what could have not now been the past, present, and partial future. To tear down and destroy is of no consequence or quality; to create is divine.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Anyways I was just talking about the Ben 10 Multiverse, but the Cosmos/Omniverse is different it contains all realities- the dimensions, timelines, and universes. Ultimate Albedo with Azmuth's intellegence was able to sense the Omniverse and stated this.

Ultimate Albedo: No! Now I see the universe for what it is: We are all dust, bound by one enormous, universal force. No, not universal, not even multiversal, this omniversal force continues forever, in every direction through every reality. My lust for power, my jealousy of Azmuth, it isn't just evil, ultimately; it's pointless. I could never truly destroy you. You would only have not been not unexistent in what could have not now been the past, present, and partial future. To tear down and destroy is of no consequence or quality; to create is divine.

ummm dosn't taht mean the time lines are branching in ad-infinitum in all dimensions but not only ben dimension?

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

>And you especially cannot reach infinity just by expanding a bunch of worlds. "Branch off to infinity" just means they infinitely branch off. The fact that they branch at all means the number is finite but just endlessly increasing. It's not 2-A for the 10th time.

The timestream contains past, present and future timelines, such as the timeline 100 years into the future where Paradox didnt save the Earth from the extra-dimensional beast. That universe didnt exist at the time of Alien Force, yet Paradox could still go there via the timestream.

I.E, the timestream contains every single timeline, including every timeline that will eventually exist.

 

[DemonicDude]

Is there actually gonna be a payoff to this thread ?

 

[EpicCookie12342]

ummm dosn't taht mean the time lines are branching in ad-infinitum in all dimensions but not only ben dimension?

No it means the Omniverse is infinite, we only know that the Ben 10 Multiverse branches off ad infinitum, so we can't assume everything in the cosmos branches off ad infinitum.

 

[Dragomer]

Is there actually gonna be a payoff to this thread ?

No since they are just repeating the same 'ad infinitum' statement which we already established countless time on this wiki aren't 2-A, just like with DBH.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

No since they are just repeating the same 'ad infinitum' statement which we already established countless time on this wiki aren't 2-A, just like with DBH.

Yes since in the series the cosmos/omniverse is said to continue forever which means it is infinite. The only time we spoke about ad infinitum was when I spoke about the Ben 10 multiverse

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

does anyone in DBH destroy every possible timeline at once? is DBH stated to branch infinitely?

 

[Dragomer]

No since they are just repeating the same 'ad infinitum' statement which we already established countless time on this wiki aren't 2-A, just like with DBH.

Yes since in the series the cosmos/omniverse is said to continue forever which means it is infinite. The only time we spoke about ad infinitum was when I spoke about the Ben 10 multiverse

'continue forever through every direction through reality' about a 'ever expanding' type multiverse is still just 'every expanding', not infinite and thus still ad infinitum at best and not 2-A.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

Anyways I was just talking about the Ben 10 Multiverse, but the Cosmos/Omniverse is different it contains all realities- the dimensions, timelines, and universes. Ultimate Albedo with Azmuth's intellegence was able to sense the Omniverse and stated this.
Ultimate Albedo: No! Now I see the universe for what it is: We are all dust, bound by one enormous, universal force. No, not universal, not even multiversal, this omniversal force continues forever, in every direction through every reality. My lust for power, my jealousy of Azmuth, it isn't just evil, ultimately; it's pointless. I could never truly destroy you. You would only have not been not unexistent in what could have not now been the past, present, and partial future. To tear down and destroy is of no consequence or quality; to create is divine.

^

 

[Dragomer]

Already addressed it above.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

Why can something infinite not continue to expand exactly? If you have infinite amount of anything, why cant anything be added to it? Albedo is saying that the multiverse is infinite, he did not say a word about it expanding infinitely. neither does Maltruant. Neither does Holy, and neither does WOG.

 

[EpicCookie12342]

Continuing forever in every direction =/= ever expanding, it literally is the definition for infinity since continuing forever is without an end and without limit

 

[Dragomer]

Continuing forever in every direction doesn't mean ever expanding it, literally is the definition for infinity since continuing forever is without an end and without limit

If i start running in one direction and never stop, is the distance i'v run suddenly infinite or ever expanding ? it's ever expanding just like the Ben 10 thing.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

again, the timestream contains every timeline that will ever exist, such as a timeline 100 years into the future, so why does it matter in the first place whether it is infinite now or eventually?

 

[EpicCookie12342]

If i start running in one direction and never stop, is the distance i'v run suddenly infinite or ever expanding ? it's ever expanding just like the Ben 10 thing.

That is a false analogy, the distance of the cosmos is continuing forever which has no end thus is infinite, someone running to reach something that has no end is ever expanding which is not at all what albedo said

 

[Dragomer]

again, the timestream contains every timeline that will ever exist, such as a timeline 100 years into the future, so why does it matter in the first place whether it is infinite now or eventually?

Once again, this is not how it works and you never 'eventually' reach infinity, you stay ever expanding, you can't reach infinity through increasing finite numbers, that's not how our standard works otherwise DBH would have been 2-A a long time ago.

 

[Dragomer]

If i start running in one direction and never stop, is the distance i'v run suddenly infinite or ever expanding ? it's ever expanding just like the Ben 10 thing.

That is a false analogy, the distance of the cosmos is continuing forever which has no end thus is infinite, someone running to reach something that has no end is ever expanding which is not at all what albedo said

Except we know it's not infinite, it's just ever expanding, that's litteraly what it's said so the omniverse running through all of it is still just ever expanding, not infinite.

 

[FRIMI]

it's not infinite at any given point in time and it never will be, but it is infinite when the entirety of time is taken into account since there is no end of time. infinity is weird like that. However, because of this at no given point in the show is the verse 2-A except for maybe when maltruent was going to become the ruler of the entirety of the timestream including all branches