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What about the question that I have posted I mean Dericks responded that the multiverse is infiniteDoorinmyhouse said:
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Infinitely above baseline 2-A Ben 10 cosmology and Alien X
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@Badrimoine2019.... read my post again....
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Ah so mine is not accepted? Ok
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you should ask the actual writers of Ben 10 aka Man in Actio , rather than Derrick who wasnt an actual writer of the show. But again, if Derrick's word cant be applied, then Atomix shouldnt be considered above Way Big, because that statement came from Derrick.
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Oh and how I can ask theme?
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dont know
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Shouldn't we at least use this as an evidence? http://imgur.com/a/phFm0RBFRIMI said:
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Okay so here's my long-awaited counter response.
>The time travel came as an extension of Breach's powers. Sure but none of the characters in Ben 10 ever put a limit on the amount of dimensions that there are, we already know that there are at least a 100 due to Azmuth's statement of Dagon conquering 100 dimensions which btw was made centuries before Ben was even born and as we all know, the timestream branching only began when Ben first got the Omnitrix since that is where Paradox travels to when rebooting the timestream. Proving that for once and for all, timelines and dimensions are NOT the same thing in Ben 10.
This point was referencing Generator Rex, not Ben 10. But i'll respond anyway. Unless you are sitting here and wanting me to accept some vague intepretion of this meaning higher-d dimensions all because of the words "dimension", that definitely isn't going to fly. For all we know, the dimensions Daigon attempted to conquer were just alternate dimensions that existed prior to the multiverse's number expanding (which btw, we're assuming that timelines started expanding the moment Ben got the omnitrix for what reason again?)
>Infinite dimensions is blatantly stated, you were just acting as if it meant Ad-infinitum with that interpretation having 0 proof to back it up.
No, thats one interpretation out of multiple reasons on why I disagree with it. The main crux is that statement is being made by someone who was not only initally denying anything to do with alternate worlds, but someone whos used math and last minute theorizing to suddenly come to such a large conclusion. While on the other hand, the average scientist or whatnot in Ben 10 already has that and much more, who are jokes compared to Professor Paradox and he doesn't side with that interpretation at all.
It should be pretty clear on why siding with Holiday's statement being 2-A is just, no offense, desperation for an upgrade. Any other verse would never be given an upgrade this humongous for evidence so very little in scope as this.
>The statement from Holiday does not solely have to be about universes, we just know due to Rex's universe, Ben's universe and Dagon's universe all being parallel dimensions that a certain percentage of the dimensions Holiday mentions are universe-sized which still results in infinite universe-sized dimensions.
Yeah no. If she isn't solely speaking about universes, what else would she be talking about that Ben 10 wouldnt already have for their Multiversal cosmology? The only thing differing from parallel worlds would be higher d realities, which is even more reason on why this upgrade is unfounded based off of Holiday.
>Well this is them also judging their own verses' cosmology, they just didn't deal with alternate timelines but deal with this instead.
Yes I know, which is part of why im against Generator Rex being allowed to judge Ben 10's Cosmology size when, outside of this crossover episode, they never remotely tackle into such a thing for their own verse. The highest thing they deal with is strictly in the matters of the scope of their own universe and nothing outside it.
>With same range I mean that if Caesar is top-extraordinary genius then Holiday would be low or mid-extraordinary genius, she also has the feats to back it up.
Yes, but again, that only goes as far as Caesar being impressed by Holiday's intelligence, not that she has comparable intelligence to him. There's a difference.
>My point was that it wouldn't be hard for Doc Holiday to figure it out due to the high-technological nature of the verse.
Of course, im not even denying the possibility existing. But we don't rate such things here based of possibilities. Without clear explicit evidence, something like this rises into a whole area of speculation that is too vague to accept. Remember, extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence the higher you climb a tier.
And again, the acknowledgement of parallel world theories and parallel worlds as a whole are extremely scarce in Generator Rex in general. To the point where without that crossover with Ben 10, it wouldn't exist in Generator Rex at all.
>That's not last-minute, having half a day is a dream in Gen Rex. She made a cure that Rex needed right away for a certain type toxin just by being given a blood sample digitally.
Okay? Thats cool and dandy, but making a cure for some poison and literally possessing knowledge on the existence of whole entire different universes outside of your own is such a massive difference in knowledge that its incomprehensible. Thats like saying someone using technology to cure an unknown illness can suddenly rise to speak about interstellar matters regarding our universe.
When speaking about something as vast as the subject of alternate realities, you must have incredibly big knowledge to be a credible source to speak upon it.
>She made one statement at the beginning about parallel worlds being a theory and said theory being shaky and that's it, that's not being in denial of concepts. That's her not trusting Ben's explanation since he is just a rando who got her love-interest injured and seems like he uses alternate universes as an excuse to get free.
Maybe being "ignorant" was the wrong choice of words here. The point here is that for most of this crossover, Holiday was denying the idea that parallel worlds exist and didn't believe in the idea that they do. Now nearing the end of the crossover, she suddenly plays around with equations and jumps to the conclusion that not only do they do exist, but theres an infinite amount of them???
>I would also agree with you that Holiday's statement is not enough evidence if we didn't already see parallel universes in Ben 10 and thus we went from one-space time continuum to infinite, but that is not the case and Holiday only gives a "number" to something that is already established.
But its not already established in Ben 10. Holiday's statement is whats supposed to jump Ben 10 up to an infinite multiverse in the first place. Whats already established is that Ben 10 has a vast expanding Multiverse, not an already infinite one. And Ben 10 being a multiverse before this crossover happened doesnt make her anymore right.
>There is no mention of Complex Multiversal in the answer so the writer chose to ignore it so why should it matter here? The writer gave a serious answer to question 1 and 2 and ignored 3.
Well first off, he obviously wouldnt mention "Complex Multiversal" literally in his answer as that term because Vs Debating terms are next to entirely non-existent to authors. Second, his answer involves the Multiverse because the fan was asking if Celestialsapiens were considered Multiversal aliens to begin with, which already suggests the answer isn't serious. Why do we need to sit here and selectively pick what part of the answer we think is serious, and what isnt serious, just so an upgrade is pushed? Thats not explicit, thats cherry picking what we want.
We also see that Derrick never responded to anything else that fan was asking of him either, which suggests more that Derrick threw him a bone so he could get him to shut up. Just like many authors do with annoying fan-related questions. This is precisely why Matthew explained in Cal's thread that authors who give detailed explantions to people who have the jobs in asking questions like that should be the only author answers accepted as evidence here.
Not to mention, Derrick starts his response with "I dont believe the entire Multiverse is rebooted". Why would an author to their own series use guesswork?
>The time travel came as an extension of Breach's powers. Sure but none of the characters in Ben 10 ever put a limit on the amount of dimensions that there are, we already know that there are at least a 100 due to Azmuth's statement of Dagon conquering 100 dimensions which btw was made centuries before Ben was even born and as we all know, the timestream branching only began when Ben first got the Omnitrix since that is where Paradox travels to when rebooting the timestream. Proving that for once and for all, timelines and dimensions are NOT the same thing in Ben 10.
This point was referencing Generator Rex, not Ben 10. But i'll respond anyway. Unless you are sitting here and wanting me to accept some vague intepretion of this meaning higher-d dimensions all because of the words "dimension", that definitely isn't going to fly. For all we know, the dimensions Daigon attempted to conquer were just alternate dimensions that existed prior to the multiverse's number expanding (which btw, we're assuming that timelines started expanding the moment Ben got the omnitrix for what reason again?)
>Infinite dimensions is blatantly stated, you were just acting as if it meant Ad-infinitum with that interpretation having 0 proof to back it up.
No, thats one interpretation out of multiple reasons on why I disagree with it. The main crux is that statement is being made by someone who was not only initally denying anything to do with alternate worlds, but someone whos used math and last minute theorizing to suddenly come to such a large conclusion. While on the other hand, the average scientist or whatnot in Ben 10 already has that and much more, who are jokes compared to Professor Paradox and he doesn't side with that interpretation at all.
It should be pretty clear on why siding with Holiday's statement being 2-A is just, no offense, desperation for an upgrade. Any other verse would never be given an upgrade this humongous for evidence so very little in scope as this.
>The statement from Holiday does not solely have to be about universes, we just know due to Rex's universe, Ben's universe and Dagon's universe all being parallel dimensions that a certain percentage of the dimensions Holiday mentions are universe-sized which still results in infinite universe-sized dimensions.
Yeah no. If she isn't solely speaking about universes, what else would she be talking about that Ben 10 wouldnt already have for their Multiversal cosmology? The only thing differing from parallel worlds would be higher d realities, which is even more reason on why this upgrade is unfounded based off of Holiday.
>Well this is them also judging their own verses' cosmology, they just didn't deal with alternate timelines but deal with this instead.
Yes I know, which is part of why im against Generator Rex being allowed to judge Ben 10's Cosmology size when, outside of this crossover episode, they never remotely tackle into such a thing for their own verse. The highest thing they deal with is strictly in the matters of the scope of their own universe and nothing outside it.
>With same range I mean that if Caesar is top-extraordinary genius then Holiday would be low or mid-extraordinary genius, she also has the feats to back it up.
Yes, but again, that only goes as far as Caesar being impressed by Holiday's intelligence, not that she has comparable intelligence to him. There's a difference.
>My point was that it wouldn't be hard for Doc Holiday to figure it out due to the high-technological nature of the verse.
Of course, im not even denying the possibility existing. But we don't rate such things here based of possibilities. Without clear explicit evidence, something like this rises into a whole area of speculation that is too vague to accept. Remember, extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence the higher you climb a tier.
And again, the acknowledgement of parallel world theories and parallel worlds as a whole are extremely scarce in Generator Rex in general. To the point where without that crossover with Ben 10, it wouldn't exist in Generator Rex at all.
>That's not last-minute, having half a day is a dream in Gen Rex. She made a cure that Rex needed right away for a certain type toxin just by being given a blood sample digitally.
Okay? Thats cool and dandy, but making a cure for some poison and literally possessing knowledge on the existence of whole entire different universes outside of your own is such a massive difference in knowledge that its incomprehensible. Thats like saying someone using technology to cure an unknown illness can suddenly rise to speak about interstellar matters regarding our universe.
When speaking about something as vast as the subject of alternate realities, you must have incredibly big knowledge to be a credible source to speak upon it.
>She made one statement at the beginning about parallel worlds being a theory and said theory being shaky and that's it, that's not being in denial of concepts. That's her not trusting Ben's explanation since he is just a rando who got her love-interest injured and seems like he uses alternate universes as an excuse to get free.
Maybe being "ignorant" was the wrong choice of words here. The point here is that for most of this crossover, Holiday was denying the idea that parallel worlds exist and didn't believe in the idea that they do. Now nearing the end of the crossover, she suddenly plays around with equations and jumps to the conclusion that not only do they do exist, but theres an infinite amount of them???
>I would also agree with you that Holiday's statement is not enough evidence if we didn't already see parallel universes in Ben 10 and thus we went from one-space time continuum to infinite, but that is not the case and Holiday only gives a "number" to something that is already established.
But its not already established in Ben 10. Holiday's statement is whats supposed to jump Ben 10 up to an infinite multiverse in the first place. Whats already established is that Ben 10 has a vast expanding Multiverse, not an already infinite one. And Ben 10 being a multiverse before this crossover happened doesnt make her anymore right.
>There is no mention of Complex Multiversal in the answer so the writer chose to ignore it so why should it matter here? The writer gave a serious answer to question 1 and 2 and ignored 3.
Well first off, he obviously wouldnt mention "Complex Multiversal" literally in his answer as that term because Vs Debating terms are next to entirely non-existent to authors. Second, his answer involves the Multiverse because the fan was asking if Celestialsapiens were considered Multiversal aliens to begin with, which already suggests the answer isn't serious. Why do we need to sit here and selectively pick what part of the answer we think is serious, and what isnt serious, just so an upgrade is pushed? Thats not explicit, thats cherry picking what we want.
We also see that Derrick never responded to anything else that fan was asking of him either, which suggests more that Derrick threw him a bone so he could get him to shut up. Just like many authors do with annoying fan-related questions. This is precisely why Matthew explained in Cal's thread that authors who give detailed explantions to people who have the jobs in asking questions like that should be the only author answers accepted as evidence here.
Not to mention, Derrick starts his response with "I dont believe the entire Multiverse is rebooted". Why would an author to their own series use guesswork?
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Derrick also says the multiverse is infinite in this tweet , no mention of VS debating or complex multiverse at all. This is a very clear answer
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Yeah where is this from? You give no link to the actual statement.Doorinmyhouse said:
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Actually, nevermind.
YOU were the one asked this question? Guys...your literally doing exactly what this wikia explicitly doesn't accept as a credible author statement...Badrimoine2019 said:
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Where's that rule at?
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yea, i would like to see that as well. There was no mention of people from this site not being allowed to ask authors information. Why would author statements not be considered credible if someone from VS battles wiki asked them? That doesnt even remotely make any sense.
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Because thats literally no different than a random vs debater fan spamming authors with questions to get answers so they can inflate their verses as much as possible? I already addressed this to you door.
@Peter
Go to my first reply here. We had a thread about this and its currently in our Editing Rules as well.
@Peter
Go to my first reply here. We had a thread about this and its currently in our Editing Rules as well.
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comon can't we at least accept this one?ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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"Do not pester or harass the authors of various works on social media about versus debating or character statistics. They are often bombarded by numerous questions from fans, and thus are rarely interested in giving a serious response. In addition, the statements they give to appease users are often contradictory to the feats in the stories of the works they have written. Thus it is frowned upon to bother them over these topics."
I think he's talking about that. But the thing is, there was no mention about versus debating and or character statistics at all though and it doesn't seem like he has a problem with answering questions (From what i've seen, he doesn't get asked alot of questions anyway.)
I think he's talking about that. But the thing is, there was no mention about versus debating and or character statistics at all though and it doesn't seem like he has a problem with answering questions (From what i've seen, he doesn't get asked alot of questions anyway.)
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I beg to differ. Derrick in the OP's twitter link has only responded like once, while the fan who was asking him questions was sending him multiple messages to extract a specific answer in regards to Multiversal Celestialsapiens.
As well as another fan in that same thread.
As well as another fan in that same thread.
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Should I ask Antvasima about this?
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Man I've just asked him how big the Ben 10 verse is and he saied they are infinit can't we accept this? ComonProfessorKukui4Life said:
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He didn't have a problem answering them though. He even went into vivid detail with one of his answers.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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And for the record, i'm not for or against the upgrade. I just wanted to give my two cents on this particular sub-topic.
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But again, this is the same author who in that very same answer said "I dont believe the entire Multiverse" was rebooted."Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
An author to his own series not sure what happened in-story? Immediately puts his credibility in knowing Ben 10 canon in question.
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But again, this is the same author who in that very same said "I dont believe the entire Multiverse" was rebooted."
An author to his own series not sure what happened in-story? Immediately puts his credibility in knowing Ben 10 canon in question.
Yeah but about the Ben 10 verse size question he didn't have any problems with this he immediately saied they are infinit so I'm pretty he was not bullshiting
An author to his own series not sure what happened in-story? Immediately puts his credibility in knowing Ben 10 canon in question.
Yeah but about the Ben 10 verse size question he didn't have any problems with this he immediately saied they are infinit so I'm pretty he was not bullshiting
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Different authors have different views to what happens in their story. Example: The endgame writers and the directors have different views on Caps Time travel at the end of the movie.
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And thats exactly why these kind of author statements shouldnt be taken so highly by us. And we dont take them unless the actual series its from supports the authors version of events to a great degree.
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Bruh at least there is some proof and evidence in the show that support this statement, I mean comon shouldn't we use this statement as an evidence? I mean my question was pretty much clear and he responded by they are infinit so I don't think he was bullshiting at allProfessorKukui4Life said:
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"I dont believe the entire Multiverse" was rebooted." has nothing to do with how many universe exist at all. He has said there are infinite universes twicem WOG not being certain about something doesnt mean everything they say is unreliable, thats a proof by example fallacy. He very clearly says how many universes there are without any uncertainty and without any ambuigity. Holiday from Generator Rex saying there are infinite universes does support it, as well as the fact that Diagon had captured 100 universes before Ben 10 ever got his omnitrix.
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Yeah, from what has been shown here, Derrick is very clearly not a really realible source and we shouldn't take his word for granted, and when an in-universe expert on the multiverse contradicts it (Paradox), the credibility of his statement falls apart.
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it doesn't contradict the paradox satement at all, it does even support it and also the holiday statement so it's fine to use the satementIonliosite said:
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Sorry but clearly searching and proding a specific answer out of a dude who worked on the show on twitter and him shrugging and going 'yeah, sure, multivers's infinite, bro' after being asked 5 time shouldn't be taken as a serious answer for an upgrade.
I could go annoy multiple authors and writers of different series on twitter right now and get at least one 'sure, universe's infinite, bro' answer, i guesse we'll upgrade all universe to 2-A since they're truly infinite.
Also was he even a writer or the creator or it's another case of 'we asked the dude who did the animation / music / chara design' ?.
I could go annoy multiple authors and writers of different series on twitter right now and get at least one 'sure, universe's infinite, bro' answer, i guesse we'll upgrade all universe to 2-A since they're truly infinite.
Also was he even a writer or the creator or it's another case of 'we asked the dude who did the animation / music / chara design' ?.
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@dragomer he asked him " how big is the multiverse" once and he said "infinite", not sure how that is proding a specific answer? and he didnt ask him 5 times, what are you talking about?
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http://imgur.com/a/yjO9rww lol
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Well I don't really have much of an opinion on the OP, but the multiverse should be infinite anyways since this is what Paradox says.
Paradox: As Gwen guessed, cross-time is made up of parallel versions of the history we know. There are hundreds of them. A world where Gwen found the Omnitrix. A world where albedo turned to Alien X and was trapped motionless for nearly a year. A world where you didn't have to destroy the Omnitrix to defeat Vilgax.
Ben 10,000: Et cetera.
Paradox: Ad infinitum. These worlds are all every bit as real as our own, but they cannot must not be allowed to leak into ours. Which brings us to our problem.
He literally says to infinity, which is ad infinitum in english. Also when he brushes up No Watch Ben on quantum mechanics and string theory, we see many parallel worlds in the background that looks to be countless. And when he shows the tree and how it branches off it leads to the top of the tree which has more countless parallel worlds. Paradox's statement and Maltruant's don't contridict eachothers at all since Paradox says the timelines branch off to infinity (not infinitely) and Maltruant says there is an infinite time stream.
Paradox: As Gwen guessed, cross-time is made up of parallel versions of the history we know. There are hundreds of them. A world where Gwen found the Omnitrix. A world where albedo turned to Alien X and was trapped motionless for nearly a year. A world where you didn't have to destroy the Omnitrix to defeat Vilgax.
Ben 10,000: Et cetera.
Paradox: Ad infinitum. These worlds are all every bit as real as our own, but they cannot must not be allowed to leak into ours. Which brings us to our problem.
He literally says to infinity, which is ad infinitum in english. Also when he brushes up No Watch Ben on quantum mechanics and string theory, we see many parallel worlds in the background that looks to be countless. And when he shows the tree and how it branches off it leads to the top of the tree which has more countless parallel worlds. Paradox's statement and Maltruant's don't contridict eachothers at all since Paradox says the timelines branch off to infinity (not infinitely) and Maltruant says there is an infinite time stream.
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hm. I suppose that makes sense. at any given point there is a finite number of timelines, but as t (time) approaches infinity there are also an infinite amount of timelines. Since there is no end of time, the entire timestream as a whole would still be infinite despite also not being infinite no matter when you are
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So Derrick wasn't saying bullshit after all
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Now we're going somewhere.
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