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Infinite Speed Saint seiya Upgrade

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TheUnshakableOne said:
The examples i mentioned it explicitly shows physcially traveling through the worlds. through several actually without the use of any portals
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As in they physically traveled through the entire High 3-A sized body of spaces before reaching Universe A to Universe B and so on?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
As in they physically traveled through the entire High 3-A sized body of spaces before reaching Universe A to Universe B and so on?
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Their shown physically traveling through a 2-A Multiverse where there is infinite worlds

in addition to that the universes in the underworld have several "Infinite size" statements.

So in summary they traveled through an unquantifiable amount of univeses (Possibly infinite amount of them) to reach the worlds of Hades (the Underwrold),
Then through at least 3 infinite sized universes at minimum before reaching their location.
 
StekFence said:
The gold armors were physically transported across such distances. It would only be not “physically” in this context if they were teleported, or dimensional hax were used, or something like that. Poseidon basically threw the gold cloths like baseballs except with his mind.
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I'm aware of that, but I'm talking about the users using pure speed to travel, not just the armor to go there through telekinesis.
 
StekFence said:
Ant, the incorrect translation was from a very specific mention of Faster then light,

To the exact same thing, but without the mention of tachyons. However, everyone knows that Shura is going faster than light, because he literally says he needs to Move faster than light speed. While yes it’s incorrectly translated, this translation removes literally 0 important information from the scan.
Everybody, will agree with me, on the subject of tachyons themselves not being important here. Even Matt. Because it’s a one time mention in order to drive home that he is surpassing light speed, when we already know that’s what he is doing.
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
Traveling to other universes/timelines is not Immeasurable. However, there as been a case by case analysis where traveling through an infinite number of universes is infinite. If they physically traveled to each and every single universe one by one within a finite amount of time, that's like an even better Infinite speed. It was also agreed that traveling from Universe A to Universe B doesn't quite equate to traveling to the edge of the universe so simply traveling to other universes isn't quite infinite either unless it's that example I mentioned. Though, "Traveling through infinite cosmos" would also equate to traveling infinite distance within a finite amount of time.

Also, we have human translators who translated the raws to get the infinite speed statements, so they aren't fake translations. The only counter argument I can see is if the feats are outliers which I'm not going to debate. But I personally still leans towards Infinite being fine.
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Okay. Never mind then.
 
(Raising the level of a Cosmo also increases speed, thus infinite cosmo generates infinite speed. Scales to Shura, who intercepted infinite using his 9th sense.)

I think that sounds better. Where are the scans from so i know what to reference?
 
Not sure about the G one, ND chapter 14, DW chapter 2, Jump Remix Vol.2(not sure about specifics), EpGR chapter 17
 
Libra Jay’s translation: “小宇宙とは魂の力、 闘う想いが強ければ強い程 燃えあがり敵を滅殺する力と成る。 Cosmo is the power of the soul. The stronger the fighting spirit, the stronger it burns and becomes a power that can obliterate the enemy”



 
RIZEXX said:
Libra Jay’s translation: “小宇宙とは魂の力、 闘う想いが強ければ強い程 燃えあがり敵を滅殺する力と成る。 Cosmo is the power of the soul. The stronger the fighting spirit, the stronger it burns and becomes a power that can obliterate the enemy”



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Chapter 2 iirc
 
In terms of who this scales to, Manga: Artemis, Athena, Divine Sword key shura, Chronos, God cloth Hyoga, God Cloth Shiryu, Eris, Gaia, Hades, Hypnos, Thanatos, Regulus in his Final Key, Yoma, God cloth Seiya, God Cloth Tenma, God cloth ikki, Pontos , Poseidon,Tartarus,Typhon, 2nd Key Rhad, and Zeus.

Anime:Abzu, Apollo, Omega Cloth Yuna,Omega Cloth ryuho,Lucifer ,Omega Cloth Koga,9th sense Seiya,Phoebus Abel,New Sagittarius cloth Seiya, Saturn,Omega Cloth Haruto,
so uh, have fun
TheUnshakableOne said:
I cam help with it.

What would the scans and justifications be? Also where and what will be referenced?
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Yeah the anime has its own arguments for infinite Cosmo and such that don’t necessarily rely on manga arguments
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Their shown physically traveling through a 2-A Multiverse where there is infinite worlds

in addition to that the universes in the underworld have several "Infinite size" statements.

So in summary they traveled through an unquantifiable amount of univeses (Possibly infinite amount of them) to reach the worlds of Hades (the Underwrold),
Then through at least 3 infinite sized universes at minimum before reaching their location.
Click to expand...
StekFence said:
Ok then so I’ll start with a justification.
For the God cloths and Gods, it would be

Has infinite cosmos, speed is closely related to cosmos. Scales to Shura, who intercepted infinite fists using the 9th sense.

think That works?
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Then that basically rests my concerns that it is pretty face value for Infinite speed.
 
RIZEXX said:
Probably something like this.


Agree: AlexZiggy, RizeXX, AnimesFreak, Tarta, Deathlems, Rabbit, TheUnshakeable, Maverick, kool, DarkDragon, TurtleGod, Gogeta, Toby (13)

Disagree:Lancelot, Alonik, Matthew(3)

Neutral: Crabwhale (1)
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Actually I was not disagreeing with everything mentioned in the topic, I was just pointing out the problem with the interpretation of the battle of Brontes and Shura, where there is no infinite speed feat, because the character only intercepts the attack with range.

Although the interpretation of infinite cosmos equals infinite speed can be taken into account.

After all, speed has always increased proportionally to the cosmos of its user. You even have the scene where Seiya's speed increases proportionally, as his cosmos increases, going from mach 1 to mach 10, mach 35, mach 120 and light speed, to finally surpass Saga's speed and hit him directly.
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StekFence said:
In terms of who this scales to, Manga: Artemis, Athena, Divine Sword key shura, Chronos, God cloth Hyoga, God Cloth Shiryu, Eris, Gaia, Hades, Hypnos, Thanatos, Regulus in his Final Key, Yoma, God cloth Seiya, God Cloth Tenma, God cloth ikki, Pontos , Poseidon,Tartarus,Typhon, 2nd Key Rhad, and Zeus.

Anime:Abzu, Apollo, Omega Cloth Yuna,Omega Cloth ryuho,Lucifer ,Omega Cloth Koga,9th sense Seiya,Phoebus Abel,New Sagittarius cloth Seiya, Saturn,Omega Cloth Haruto,
so uh, have fun
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Chronos does not qualify for this, it is basically a lake, it has no mobility and only moves very slowly in the lake where it lives, at most it would only have reaction at this level, but not speed. The Time Odyssey version is a pathetic god compared to the Olympians, that's why he needs the Apocalypse Clock to match them, maybe even in this story we will see how he ended up transformed into a lake. Youma doesn't qualify, because he's not at this level and Tenma probably doesn't either, because he was basically completely destroyed by Alone, a mortal using a fraction of a god's power and it's never mentioned that he reached infinite cosmos, he only acquired a Cloth because he asked his soul to transform into a Cloth. And I would add Shoko and Eris, because the latter is the most powerful goddess in this franchise and Shoko was almost as powerful as Athena.

Tartarus is not a god and we have to delete his page.
 
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Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Youma doesn't qualify, because he's not at this level
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Personally, I agree at least, for base yoma, not sure about his later form, but the wiki says he’s > the twin gods for some reason.
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Tenma probably doesn't either, because he was basically completely destroyed by Alone, a mortal using a fraction of a god's power and it's never mentioned that he reached infinite cosmos, he only acquired a Cloth because he asked his soul to transform into a Cloth,
Click to expand...
While Alone wasn’t using all of Hades power certainly, I’m pretty sure he was using a lot of it.
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Shoko and Eris, because the latter is the most powerful goddess in this franchise and Shoko was almost as powerful as Athena.
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Shoko sadly doesn’t have her Battle dress key, and eris is alr on there.
 
StekFence said:
Personally, I agree at least, for base yoma, not sure about his later form, but the wiki says he’s > the twin gods for some reason.

While Alone wasn’t using all of Hades power certainly, I’m pretty sure he was using a lot of it.

Shoko sadly doesn’t have her Battle dress key, and eris is alr on there.
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Some things must be corrected and descriptions must be improved, because he was never stronger than these gods, not even in his series where Hypnos and Thanatos don't have their divine bodies and don't wear their real armors (they wear armor created by their cosmos, that is why it disappears when they leave their body, as opposed to real armor, for example when Poseidon's armor on Julian's body does not disappear when the god's soul leaves his body). The Hypnos and Thanatos that qualify for this, are the ones that can fight with Seiya and company, and are at the level of a God Saint, even Hypnos defeated Shun without many problems (even dodges an attack by God Cloth Shun at that moment).

A part, but we do not know up to what level, because well, he is only a mortal using a fraction of the power of a god, even Poseidon controlling Julian's body, but without fully awakening was hundreds of times weaker.

We need to add the key of Shoko with Dress.
 
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Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
A part, but we do not know up to what level, because well, he is only a mortal using a fraction of the power of a god, even Poseidon controlling Julian's body, but without fully awakening was hundreds of times weaker.
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Wasnt he comparable to armored Sasha tho? And Sasha should be = to Saori
 
Scaling wise i see no problem with Alone from LC having infinite speed. His Cosmo was stated to be stronger than stronger Hypnos (Well more so implied)

Julian Solo and Soari (Athena) might be "Possibly infinite speed"

Yoma shouldn't have it imo. We never actuallu seen what an unsealed Kairos can do, and him as a specter has conteded with several gold saints

Divine Sword Key Shura will be separated later this year as with anime canon wtih my canon blog i'll be introducing so i won't mess with them at this time. unless everyone says differently

The Omnipresent characters should definetly still scale to this it may not be their natural speed but it would be fore their reactions, and combat speed (All their other speeds)
 
StekFence said:
Wasnt he comparable to armored Sasha tho? And Sasha should be = to Saori
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She was never Saori's equal, in fact Saori is the strongest Athena, even her power surpasses that of the mythological Athena. Sasha is so weak that she has trouble with a god in a human body, while Saori's power could easily surpass that of Poseidon (fully awakened, with his true divine armor and weapon, and at the peak of his power).
TheUnshakableOne said:
Scaling wise i see no problem with Alone from LC having infinite speed. His Cosmo was stated to be stronger than stronger Hypnos (Well more so implied)
Click to expand...
It's Hypnos in a human body, the gods in TLC never used their real body and armor, not Hypnos in a divine body, which is on Shun's level or even a bit stronger than him, and just because of that they could get powerscaling from someone with infinite cosmos.
 
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God Cloths require infinite Cosmo as one of the requirements to awaken, and increases in Cosmo levels will increase speed.

references that will be used are the ones listed below.

Saint Seiya: Next Dimension Chapter 14
Saint Seiya Volume 12
Saint Seiya Volume 9
Shueisha Jump Remix Volume 2 Magazine Guide


Edit:

I left shura scaling out becuase there is plans to separate his profile coming soon. the current profile is only for the original series and has been composited with G stuff which will be fixed later. the proper profile for the feat being used here will get the correct justification when the new canon blog is released

I left out the other scan from the magazine guide book because the Aiolia and Saga fights more more blatant witht he relationship between speed and cosmo

Edit 2:

Nvm i overlooked a sentence in that magaizine guide book scan.

i'll add it in lol


it has been added in now

Edit 3:

Scaling will be applied for the god cloths since their the main scaling point for basically everyone else.

2nd Key Rhada, then Regulus may need a different justification


Outside of the reasonings already explained on this thread i want to post this statement

3) Names are said to be a special feature of Saint Seiya, and terms like "Cosmos", "Saint" or "Cloth" appealed to readers, didn't they?

Kurumada: Looking back, I did really well with Saint Seiya (laughs). The word Cosmos can be applied to a whole lot of things. For example, when it comes to feeling the murderous intention of an enemy or to speak of the elevation of power, in all cases it simply comes down to burning his Cosmos. Regarding the Cloths, it's because I had seen that the gods of Greek mythology were dressed in simple cloths. From that, I came up with the term "sacred tissues" (聖なる衣 - sinaru koromo ), which I then compressed into "Cloths" (聖衣). http://www.saintseiyapedia.com/wiki/Interviews/Taizen/Masami_Kurumada
Click to expand...
 
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My apologies for my late reply to this thread. I was asked to provide input, but certain matters got in the way of giving a quick response.

I've not yet examined the past few pages of discussion, so for this reply, I'll focus on the premises and conclusion listed in the OP. I'll preface by stating that I'm not very familiar with this verse, so my ability to evaluate this CRT is limited to the context provided. To start:

In Saint Seiya: Next Dimension, Saori describes the process of obtaining a god cloth as such: “It is only revealed after it receives the goddess‘s blood and when the saint wearing it manages to burn his Cosmo to the infinite.“ Here, the Goddess of Wisdom herself claims a God cloth requires an infinite cosmos in order to obtain.:

If I understand correctly, the point of this premise is that, because god cloths exist, "the cosmos" within Saint Seiya must be infinite in size? Or otherwise, the point is that everyone with a god cloth had an infinite cosmos at some point? Whichever one it is, this looks perfectly valid, barring ridiculous nitpicks.

Hades in Dark Wings, Along with Kronos in episode G are also said to possess infinite Cosmo. This shows that it is very consistent for god tier characters to have infinite cosmos. Hades has it. Kronos has it. The 5 god cloth protagonists have it. All Gods on their level would therefore have this.:

I'm less certain about this, but this doesn't sound like an unjustified point. I don't believe a lot of god-tier characters having infinite cosmos proves that all god-tier characters have it, but it acts as supporting evidence if it doesn't contradict anything, and it ties in well to the previous premise. I'm largely fine with this, if sceptical.

Here, it is described that an increase in cosmos, or burning it more, is directly linked to an increase in stats. Strength, speed, and even psychic ability all increase as cosmos does. And while it’s unknown how much cosmos increases speed, any increase no matter how small or large, done infinite times, will result in a total increase of infinity.:

Hm. This is technically correct, but whether this is reflected in the series itself depends on the internal consistency; when writing about "burning cosmos = increase in power", were they factoring in the fact that cosmos were infinite? Obviously this is a nitpick, but I know many series throw around terms like "infinite" without acknowledging the consequences, so I'd want more than an inferred connection between two sources to verify it. Assuming there are no contradictions, though, I'd be fine with agreeing.

Also, I assume "microcosm" used in the second source was just another translation of "cosmos"? Since it is the source most relevant to whether this affects speed, it is important, though I imagine this is a simple matter to prove true.

In addition, in Saint seiya episode g requiem, there is a character named Brontes, who possesses two attacks important to the topic here. “Infinite crimson way of light”, and “Infinite powerful fists”. Both names are incredibly literal. The first fires off crimson beams of energy that are stated to have “Multiplied Infinitely!” By seiya. This shows that Brontes has the literal capabilities to fire attacks infinitely, and this is not some naming fallacy.
The second is thought to cause ”infinite and continuous attacks in all directions“ by shura. Shura then goes on to intercept all of these fists, Which notably fill the panels completely, by activating his 9th sense, granting him the power of a god, and allowing him to surpass the speed of light by some unknown amount. However, there is little reason to say this is only a ftl feat, as the context clearly contradicts this. Infinite speed is faster then light anyways.:

i get the sense they really like using the word "infinite" in this series. This seems... okay? I don't really see any other way to interpret the phrase "infinite" here, but this does fall into what I mentioned before about writers using words without really understanding what they mean. One of the panels refers to intercepting infinite attacks as being at "super light speed", after all. I'd be alright with this if nothing contradicts this interpretation.

All in all, I suppose I'd say I'm in weak agreement of this. I don't have tangible problems, but I expect more context around these feats and statements would be useful.
 
I will clarify a few things:

- The scan used for top tiers having infinite cosmo are for the very tip-top gods like Hades, Cronus and Zeus are among the top 5 deities in the whole verse.

- microcosm is the translation of the kanji. “cosmo” appears in the furigana of the kanji iirc, and is how it’s supposed to be spoken.

- and Okada (the G mangaka) does like the term infinite a fair bit, but does use it consistently to describe only a couple concepts in the verse. He doesn’t use it to describe absolutely everything all the time for no reason.
 
Hasty12345 said:
I will clarify a few things:

- The scan used for top tiers having infinite cosmo are for the very tip-top gods like Hades, Cronus and Zeus are among the top 5 deities in the whole verse.

- microcosm is the translation of the kanji. “cosmo” appears in the furigana of the kanji iirc, and is how it’s supposed to be spoken.

- and Okada (the G mangaka) does like the term infinite a fair bit, but does use it consistently to describe only a couple concepts in the verse. He doesn’t use it to describe absolutely everything all the time for no reason.
Click to expand...
Appreciated. I believe my points (and consequential agreement) remain the same with this in mind, but it's good to have clarity on the loose threads.
 
Okay, so the relationship between Cosmo and speed seems pretty simple.

If you have infinite Cosmo, then naturally you would have infinite speed as well, then. But how would it affect your other stats?
 
You’d have at least High 3-A stats, but all these god tiers already have low 2-c stats or above
 
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