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Huge MCU revision

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Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

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Short version (in case you don't have time to read the whole thing)

Points to be discussed are

  • Whether the Power Stone has variable AP or not
  • Should Doctor Strange's lifting strength scale to Thanos
  • Should Iron Man scale to Loki
  • Speed upgrades. Kep already accepted this.
  • This. I think if Captain America/any other human heroes fights a 8-A character agai in Avengers 4, we should seriously start considering the possibility of him being 8-A, and the helicopter scene being PIS.
Yeah that's all.

Whether the Power Stone has variable AP
Continued from the previous thread. I don't really agree with this. It's just a random quote that the Power Stone's AP depends on target size, and it can have multiple interpretations.

Doctor Strange's lifting strength and Iron Man's AP
Neutral on this.

MCU speed upgrades
Personally I think the high-ends for the Spider-Man feat should be usable. MHS+ flight speed for Iron Man, Sub-Relativistic reactions and Sub-Relativistic+ attack speed.

EDIT: I have decided to withdraw my proposal that the MCU should be upgraded to Sub-Relativistic for now. It does seem a bit outlandish. I would wait for Avengers 4.

MCU Human Heroes Potential Upgrade after Avengers 4 comes out
Explained in the blog.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
This. I think if Captain America/any other human heroes fights a 8-A character agai in Avengers 4, we should seriously start considering the possibility of him being 8-A, and the helicopter scene being PIS.
Click to expand...
Unlikely, even more now that Iron Man's 8-A feat is invalid now.
 
Thanos, Iron Man, and Strange should have their AP ratings changed. Thanos to "Varies up to 5A", Iron Man to "High 6B, higher with shield", and Strange just "High 6B". Power Stone varies with size and Thanos himself can control the energy output of the stone. Considering all of that I think it's improper to scale Iron Man and Strange to Thanos maximum power output.

> flight speed for Iron Man, Sub-Relativistic reactions and Sub-Relativistic+ attack speed.

This seems like an outlier considering how both the GotG and other heroes could keep pace either with someone who scales to Spider-Man or people who scale from people who scale to Spider-Man.
 
If the Power Stone doesn't have a variable AP, then a lot of characters would be 5-A physically, which sounds like a big outlier to me.
 
^Honestly low tier superhuman's and under surviving the power stone is most likely pis anyways. It's the top tiers and god tiers who really need to be considered here, and I think there are only 3 who have any reason to scale to the power stone in anyway.
 
Also Spino, about your blog, while I would like to argue a couple of things, my first though is your behavior, you can't just simply namecall people out whim (Much less in a post were you are explaining something), because you're pretty much inciting conflict from the very start.

You have you to give arguments, but you have to be professional aswell
 
The issue is that it would apply to Thanos who the entire verse scales from in some long winded way. To upgrade Spider-Man would mean that Hawkeye becomes Sub-Rel+
 
AnonymousBlank said:
When did the Iron Spider boost his reactions? I don't remember anything that would hint at that
Click to expand...
If we treat it as boosting his power (even though the only thing it explicitly does it boost his versitility) then it would make sense for it boost his speed.
 
The speed upgrade has to be a joke. I disagree with the calcs heavily.

Also heavily disagree with 8-A Cap. There's like nothing to be discussed or even revised here anyways.
 
Why do we scale everyone to the bulldozer push that happened in a often ignored spin-off (movie wise) and not scale to Iron Man/War Machine lifting tanks easily?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
High 7-C feels a little outlierish. I was more comfortable with 8-A. And that includes the Asgardians since they didn't tank the whole explosion of Thor's ship so it doesn't scale to their durability.
Click to expand...
agreed
 
Newendigo said:
Also Spino, about your blog, while I would like to argue a couple of things, my first though is your behavior, you can't just simply namecall people out whim (Much less in a post were you are explaining something), because you're pretty much inciting conflict from the very start.

You have you to give arguments, but you have to be professional aswell
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been fixing the blog, I wrote it after having a heated debate with someone else. It is already far more polite than its original state
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The speed upgrade has to be a joke. I disagree with the calcs heavily.

Also heavily disagree with 8-A Cap. There's like nothing to be discussed or even revised here anyways.
Click to expand...
Not supporting 8A Cap either till Avengers 4 comes out.

The MFTL+ ones are clear outliers, but how is it calc stacking/aim dodging for the meteor blog
 
I think HHS MCU is already pushing it, but sub-rel and above is too much for me to comprehend how it fits the setting, imo.

Also, 8-A Cap needs to wait until A4.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I will reply to the people who disagree after school
Click to expand...
So, finally went home after Cross-Country Team training. I will reply to those who disagree.

1. "High 7-C feels a little outlierish. I was more comfortable with 8-A. And that includes the Asgardians since they didn't tank the whole explosion of Thor's ship so it doesn't scale to their durability."

The ship was literally filled with Asgardian bodies. It is not unreasonable to assume that at least one of those bodies were at the epic centre of the explosion, and that was just a regular Asgardian, not some extremely powerful Asgardian like Thor or Odin. The calc is not wrong itself. Being an outlier is another thing entirely.

The 8-A calc is wrong. If you disagree then Iron Man would probably be downgraded to High 8-C or something like that.

2. "The speed upgrade has to be a joke. I disagree with the calcs heavily."

Too bad it isn't a joke. Please explain how are the calcs "wrong". The first two are just simple jumping calcs. Speed is defined as distance over time, so jumping is part of speed as well. For the first calc, it is said that Hulk took 10 hours I think. For the second calc, it was an extreme low-ball, and the scene clearly had no strange transitions.

The third calc seems to be the one most people disagree with. There are basically 3 arguments.

A. Sub-Rel Spider-Man is a joke - Please explain.

B. No one reacted to the meteors - Spider-Man saved others from the meteors. Also, even if it is aim dodging it does not matter at all. The first calculation simply compares the distance moved by Iron Man/ and the meteor in 1 frame, so it does not matter whether Iron Man reacted or aim-dodged. For the second calc, the meteor was about to hit Drax but Spider-Man shot web and saved him. This is clearly an attack speed in feat and likely also a reaction feat.

C. This is calc stacking - No. The meteors were calculated to be MHS+ in that particular scene, so we can use the speed of the meteors calculated in that particular scene to calculate Spider-Man/Iron Man's speed. 2 calc group members evaluated this calc. Kepekley23 said the calc was correct, Zanybrainy2000 even stated that the high-end has no problem.

3. "I heavily disagree with 8-A Cap"

I do not agree with Captain America being 8-A right now either (though not heavily). As Gemmysaur said, we have to wait for Avengers 4.

Regarding my blog being impolite and unprofessional, I apologise if anyone feels insulted or uncomfortable. I wrote that blog after a heated debate with someone on YouTube, and the blog was already far more polite than it originally was, which was basically a rant. My points in the blog still stand though.
 
Iamscared2 said:
i dont understand the revisions
Click to expand...
So the revisions are:

1. Some people want to give the Power Stone a variable AP (though I do not agree)

2. Iron Man upgrade to High 7-C via scaling to Loki

3. Speed upgrades via meteor feat

4. Possibly upgrade Captain America to a higher tier, but this will have to wait until Avengers 4
 
"No, no, no, no". What a Matthew way to reply

I do not agree the Power Stone should have a variable AP either. For the meteor feat, I repeat, it does not matter whether anyone reacted to the meteors, they aim-dodged or whatever you think they are doing. The calculation compares the distance moved by the meteor and the character in 1 frame. It matters not whether they "reacted" or not, it is just that they are moving at speeds close to the meteors.
 
1: Strange and Iron Man shouldn't scale to its maximum AP. Even if you disagree that it doesn't vary in size Thanos can control the output. Strange and Iron Man should not get a 5-A key. Its like giving Krillin a tier 3 or 2 rating for fighting Goku despite Goku holding back

2: I disagree since it seems like the entire ship exploded rather than a central detonation spot. Dunno what's wrong with the 8-A calc, but if its incorrect then we shouldn't use it.

3: I disagree with upgrading people based on it due to it making no sense. It's an outlier and would massivly upgrade everyone in the entire verse.
 
An outlier is "an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power".

Look at the MHS/MHS+ feats we have:

  • Thor's reactions shouldn't be far lower than his flight speed, he does react to stuff mid-flight IIRC
  • Hela catches Mjolnir
  • One might argue that Mjolnir's return speed =/= throw speed, but Kurse reacted to Mjolnir returning.
  • Iron Man dodges Ultron's beams which are as fast as Quicksilver. Of course Iron Man is not as fast as Quicksilver, as he reacted from a distance.
  • Even Captain America could turn around and block Ultron's blast with the shield on his back.
 
The destruction of the ship was overtime. Thanos used the Power Stone to make a shockwave which make the ship burts energy from the inside, that later spread all over the ship and finally exploded.
 
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